The Controls. Fix Em'. Make Them Responsive.

[TwiceDead]

Okay. The controls should be responsive, as is true for any game. A game that fails to follow this simple rule will end up with frustrated players.

When I am trying to jump, I should not be doing a forward combat roll. The default jump button is the space button, I believe unless someone uses a gamepad. When I press the space button, I should be doing something as simple as the  f&¤%# intended jump, not a combat roll. Apologies for the censored swear, but it was necessary. 

 

"Oh he pressed the space button, which is the jump button, obviously he wants me to do a barrel roll!" - The game's logic 

 

The controls in this game has killed me off more times than I can count. I've spent probably a good 86 hours into this game by now, I've gotten the controls down, and how S#&$ty they are.

 

Sometimes when I wanted to resurrect another player by holding the X button, as soon as I release/press another button I should cancel that action, and immediately initiate the intended action of the button I pressed. For instance if I was reviving this guy, if I press SNOW GLOBE(Button 3) I should immediately cast snow globe, cancelling my revival act. There should not be a delay in anything I attempt to do.

 

When I press space against a wall, more often than not it will take it an entire 0.5 seconds before it registers the message that initiates the wallrun. Other times I won't do the intended wallrun, and will instead do the other kind of wallrun which will send me flying off a cliff. When I look directly at the wall, I should be running upwards. If I aim diagonally at the wall, I should be running along the wall. I have no idea how this game get's this wrong so many times, but it does. 

Another thing is the annoying delay between the time I press the space button, and the time it takes before I am actually airborne. I notice a slight animation before that... If that is the culprit, GET RID OF IT. It's a nuisance. 

 

Other times I am trying to just jump across some enemies, but then my frame decides the following:

 

"He jumped close to that ledge, he must want to latch onto it! I'LL HELP HIM WITH THAT!" - Game's logic

 

STOP IT. If I wanted to latch onto that ledge, I could do something as simple as press the space button a second time if I was close. In other situations I find myself desperately trying to latch onto this ledge. I have enough height, but my game decides not to do it, and I have no way of doing it manually, so I am basically relying on the game doing it for me. Having it done automatically is tedious as ----. I DON'T NEED TO BE HANDHELD, GAME! I learned how to walk on my own a long time ago. 

 

Sometimes I would even press and hold the sprint button. My stamina bar is good over 40%, I should have more than enough energy to sprint. DOES IT HAPPEN? No. 

 

Improve on the controls, as they are definitely what kills the game for me right now. 

Before you ask, my keyboard & mouse are perfectly responsive, thank you, as is proven in other games... Just not warframe. 

 

/rant over

[CrazyCanadian24]

+1.

[ZezXion]

The only response problems I've ever had in this game have to do with my player stopping and me having to click my forward button like 4 more times to get him to move again. Might be a problem with the key mapping of me having mouse2 as forward, but still annoying. +1

[Onite]

I've been pretty irritated about this too. Especially sprinting. Often times i have to spam it up to 3 times before i actually start going into a sprint. The moveset in this game makes you feel like you're in control of an incredibly drunk person. Especially when trying to peform good acrobatics, it turns into a game of chance, instead of skill.

[JamnikPucek]

Okay. The controls should be responsive, as is true for any game. A game that fails to follow this simple rule will end up with frustrated players.

When I am trying to jump, I should not be doing a forward combat roll. The default jump button is the space button, I believe unless someone uses a gamepad. When I press the space button, I should be doing something as simple as the  f&¤%# intended jump, not a combat roll. Apologies for the censored swear, but it was necessary. 

 

"Oh he pressed the space button, which is the jump button, obviously he wants me to do a barrel roll!" - The game's logic 

 

 

In my experience, barrel rolls are performed if you either jumped form a certain height (as in landed lower then you started) or were running at full speed while doing so. In the former, that is a natural move to avoid stumbling related to momentum. It should probably vary depending on the bulkiness of the the warframe, but seems like a natural limitation to me and working more or less as intended.

 

The latter on the other hand, I'm not sure about. It should probably vary on the frame as well, but it also makes sense (momentum and such), but I do agree that it seems wonky at times. I have an idea how to fix that that I'll write on at the end of this.

 

Sometimes when I wanted to resurrect another player by holding the X button, as soon as I release/press another button I should cancel that action, and immediately initiate the intended action of the button I pressed. For instance if I was reviving this guy, if I press SNOW GLOBE(Button 3) I should immediately cast snow globe, cancelling my revival act. There should not be a delay in anything I attempt to do.

 

Why? 

 

Reviving a teammate takes time and concentration. It is a conscious risk that you take and not having access to insta cast of your abilities seems to be an intended challenge. Otherwise it removes a good chunk of the tension of risking your butt for your buddy. You are asking to make the task easier instead of adapting and pre-planning. Being able to insta cast and then return to reviving without any delay whatsoever makes the act trivial.

 

Reviving a buddy while under heavy fire should not be trivial imo.

 

When I press space against a wall, more often than not it will take it an entire 0.5 seconds before it registers the message that initiates the wallrun. Other times I won't do the intended wallrun, and will instead do the other kind of wallrun which will send me flying off a cliff. When I look directly at the wall, I should be running upwards. If I aim diagonally at the wall, I should be running along the wall. I have no idea how this game get's this wrong so many times, but it does. 

 

Yep, wallrun mechanics seem to be hard to predict and feel clunky. This is another aspect that I have a suggestion for down bellow.

 

Another thing is the annoying delay between the time I press the space button, and the time it takes before I am actually airborne. I notice a slight animation before that... If that is the culprit, GET RID OF IT. It's a nuisance. 

 

Yes, that is what any bipedal creature needs to do if it wants to jump. You need to bend your knees to gain momentum and then jump. Makes the movement seem less artificial which is a good thing imo. In fact, if anything, I would like to be able to "charge" my jump (by holding space) to fine tune when exactly I want to execute it.

 

Learn it, adapt to it. You say that you do not want to be handheld by the game, yet you want to remove a natural part of jumping removed from it.

 

Yes, I know some other games do not do this. I for one think it is a good thing this one does.

 

Other times I am trying to just jump across some enemies, but then my frame decides the following:

"He jumped close to that ledge, he must want to latch onto it! I'LL HELP HIM WITH THAT!" - Game's logic

 

Yep and this is the third and last case where I agree and you've already given a possible solution - tapping space again. I'd in fact go further and use a solution from Assassins Creed and assign a separate button that you could bind and hold when you want your Tenno to perform freerunning moves such as wall runs, climbing wall running, etc.

 

Also, the default action at the end of a wall climb should be grabbing the ledge (if available) that is on top of the wall, not doing a backflip which seems to happen sometimes. In fact, I'd suggest that unless the space bar is pressed, no backflip is ever performed and the Tenno fumbles if he does not have a ledge to grab onto (something like this is already in place in the meteor-base hangar, where it is part of a multi jump shortcut)

 

I would generally like to see more fumbles during freerunning depending on proper key presses. Sleeping Dogs had a very nice system like that where you would need to press the jump key to perform freerunning maneuvers like slides, rolls, jumps etc. or fumble and loose momentum on failure. But thats taking it a tad too far for the moment.

 

Sometimes I would even press and hold the sprint button. My stamina bar is good over 40%, I should have more than enough energy to sprint. DOES IT HAPPEN? No. 

 

There seems to be an issue with sprint responsiveness, I think that if you use it before you actually start running or sth the game gets confused, but no argument here, something seems to be mildly wonky.

[CrazyCanadian24]

-snip-

 

You're treating things that are clearly bugs as though they are features. Bugs =/= features.

[Zepheros]

I can relate with barrel rolling off a cliff when I intended to jump.I even reciprocated it 5 times in a row. Really annoying.

[BoompigXD]

um.............

 

The controls work ya know there responsive

[JamnikPucek]

You're treating things that are clearly bugs as though they are features. Bugs =/= features.

 

To me some of them clearly aren't bugs. That is why I took my time explaining why I don't think they are such and provide arguments for them. Simulating momentum and response to it (which as far as I know is part of freerunning) and properly representing the time needed from initiating a jump to actually jumping does not seem a bug to me.

 

Why is a bug to you?

[CrazyCanadian24]

To me some of them clearly aren't bugs. That is why I took my time explaining why I don't think they are such and provide arguments for them. Simulating momentum and response to it (which as far as I know is part of freerunning) and properly representing the time needed from initiating a jump to actually jumping does not seem a bug to me.

 

Why is a bug to you?

 

This isn't simulated momentum, this is blatant input lag. The time between pressing a button and it being reflected in-game is far too long for the controls to be considered "responsive".

[JamnikPucek]

This isn't simulated momentum, this is blatant input lag. The time between pressing a button and it being reflected in-game is far too long for the controls to be considered "responsive".

 

The simulated momentum comment was made in respect to the rolling after jumping from a certain height and/or at a certain speed.

 

The jump delay argument is based on the fact that you cannot just jump at will (in real life I mean. And this is an aspect that I don't mind transfered into the game), both when running and standing still. The decision needs to be made a second or two beforehand, at least.

 

I press jump, my character takes a moment to bend his knees and push himself into the air. Thats how jumping works and to me it is perfectly natural, to the point that I do not notice it anymore. Note that I was responding to the fact that the OP saw a "animation" before a jump that he thought shouldn't be there. I thought otherwise. 

 

Unless, under normal conditions (as in without falling into a hole or running into an obstacle or sth) your character does not perform the desired action at all (which is what happens with sprinting sometimes), which mind you I understand as nothing happening - no start of a jumping animation, no indication whatsoever that the prompt was accepted, action delay in lieu of proper leg work to actually get yourself in the air is not unresponsiveness in my book.

 

And don't get me wrong, I am aware that there are games that take a different approach to this, either making it instant or automating the process, but as long as the start of the "winding up" animation is synced properly with the keypress, which it seems like it does for me though it might need tweaking if it is a problem for more people or I've just gotten too used to it, I personally like it. It engages me more, to have to account for an additional factor. 

Edited June 3, 2013 by JamnikPucek

[TwiceDead]

-snip-

 

Just throw the "simulated momentum" argument out of the window already, as it was already done when you wallrun along the wall. Had momentum been simulated properly in this game, that wouldn't be possible in any way as you would need constant pressure along the wall, which you only get for a few second if you take a run at it, while in this game it allows you to wallrun in circles around a pole no problem.

 

As for jumping, when I want to jump I don't take two @(*()$ seconds to execute the jump. If I am at running velocity, a jump is pretty much as instant as you want it to when you reach the point you've decided to jump on... Let's call this point, the area I press the SPACE button IRL to make a jump. At running velocity, I will jump at that point, there's no excuse in the world for me to wait two seconds after having passed that point to execute the jump. 

 

The constant rolling after a jump is nothing but another annoyance. I would understand it if you were actually jumping from a bit of height, but when you jump from the same altitude as you land on, rolling should not be necessary. I can sprint at full force IRL, take a sprinting jump, land, and keep running without having to roll. Neither does it excuse the amount of multi-rolling you do in the game whenever you sprint and drop half a feet down only to be thrown into a roll.  Let's not mention running out of the pipes only to roll over the edge into the bottomless abyss. 

 

You like the current flawed control system as it is, and that's fine, you also offer some good solutions to some of the issues. But don't think that any argument on realism can redeem how broken it is at the moment. Most of the time this game is played at a very fast pace, when things go at a fast pace you want them to be as responsive as possible, this is true for everything in the world. Driving a car at 90mp/h? Those breaks better be VERY responsive after you've finally pushed them down. Same goes for Tenno. Running at full force? That jump better be @(*()$ instant. 

[JamnikPucek]

Your car analogy seems to more lean towards my argument then yours. Unless I missed something, pressing on the brakes of a car real hard at a high speed does not stop the car on the spot. In both racing and emergency situation, your awareness as well as reaction ahead of the desired effect matters.

 

Just throw the "simulated momentum" argument out of the window already, as it was already done when you wallrun along the wall. Had momentum been simulated properly in this game, that wouldn't be possible in any way as you would need constant pressure along the wall, which you only get for a few second if you take a run at it, while in this game it allows you to wallrun in circles around a pole no problem.

 

Yes and it looks terribly artificial. So artificial in fact, that it seems like its part of the function of the Warframe itself, not due to the athletic prowess of the Tenno in it. That or they are mechanic/animation placeholders.

 

I also tested some things in game, and came up with the following:

 

To not roll while jumping on the same level, let go of the sprint button (which is also used to roll) while in mid air. A roll only seems to happen if you jump at sprint speed and do not let go of the button. You can restart a sprint immediately after touching down. Letting go of the "forward" button works too, but is harder to maintain high speed. I'm sure thats affected by sprint mods too. I would very much like this mechanic to stay, the less automated the games movement is and more dependent on player skill or mistakes, the better imo. I touched on that earlier.

 

I have also tested the "delay" on an Excalibur Prime and a Rhino. Excalibur jumps in less then half a second, there is a visible slight knee jerk and off he goes.

 

The Rhino takes more time. There is visible leg priming before he leaps, around a second.

 

I cannot tell if this is intended or not, but it seems like different "weight" frames behave slightly differently when it comes to jumping. Though at this point it just might be the difference in run speed for both of the frames.

 

This one I'm not sure about, but well, I've stated my opinion about that earlier and it stays the same.

 

 I would understand it if you were actually jumping from a bit of height, but when you jump from the same altitude as you land on, rolling should not be necessary. I can sprint at full force IRL, take a sprinting jump, land, and keep running without having to roll.

 

With body armor on? Jumping higher then the record vertical jump (frames seem to jump about their height?) Without loosing momentum?

 

Anyway, thats moot, since as it turns out there already is a way not to roll after a jump. I assume that is not the case for jumping form heights, but haven't tested that one out yet. 

[Xylia]

I've never, ever, ever, ever performed a roll when attempting to jump?

 

Just what exactly are you playing here?

 

It certainly isn't Warframe -- the Space Bar does not cause you to roll. Ever.

 

Oh wait. If you're currently sliding, you will somersault through the air with a forward flip and you will roll when you hit the ground.

 

Are you attempting to hit the Sprint Key + Spacebar simultaneously, maybe? Maybe your keyboard is going kaput and it is confusing spacebar/shift keypresses?

 

EDIT: If you shoot or aim while airborne (after a jump or if you fall), you will roll when you hit the ground, yes. But you still performed the intended jump.

 

EDIT2: The "Revive Person" mechanics work off of the "Press X to do this" system and I will agree that sometimes it is VERY FREAKING SENSITIVE about the facing of your reticule, your distance to target and whether or not you are facing the target.

 

Sometimes I have trouble opening lockers because I wasn't aiming exactly at them and I wasn't facing them or standing exactly close enough.

 

Reviving someone in the heat of combat can also suffer from this, esp if it is a dangerous situation and your nerves are already frazzled. There are times I hit the 1 key instead of the 2 key while playing rhino (YAAAAAY! Rhino....CHAAAAAAAARRRRRRGE! when I meant to Iron Skin.......whoops. My friend had some not-so-kind words for me when his timer ran out because of it lol. Hey sorry buddy, my finger slipped in the chaos). But that was 100% player error, not the game.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Xylia

[Onite]

The simulated momentum comment was made in respect to the rolling after jumping from a certain height and/or at a certain speed.

 

The jump delay argument is based on the fact that you cannot just jump at will (in real life I mean. And this is an aspect that I don't mind transfered into the game), both when running and standing still. The decision needs to be made a second or two beforehand, at least.

 

I press jump, my character takes a moment to bend his knees and push himself into the air. Thats how jumping works and to me it is perfectly natural, to the point that I do not notice it anymore. Note that I was responding to the fact that the OP saw a "animation" before a jump that he thought shouldn't be there. I thought otherwise. 

 

Unless, under normal conditions (as in without falling into a hole or running into an obstacle or sth) your character does not perform the desired action at all (which is what happens with sprinting sometimes), which mind you I understand as nothing happening - no start of a jumping animation, no indication whatsoever that the prompt was accepted, action delay in lieu of proper leg work to actually get yourself in the air is not unresponsiveness in my book.

 

And don't get me wrong, I am aware that there are games that take a different approach to this, either making it instant or automating the process, but as long as the start of the "winding up" animation is synced properly with the keypress, which it seems like it does for me though it might need tweaking if it is a problem for more people or I've just gotten too used to it, I personally like it. It engages me more, to have to account for an additional factor. 

You're forgetting something though. The gameplay demands quick response and its just simply more fun to have more control over your character. Realism is great up to a point. Example: Do you want to have to log in ever 4 hours to feed your tenno and go to the bathroom? No. Its unecessary and not fun.

 

Also Tenno are also almost always ready. They have a sort of stance like they're ready for action. They're not just casually standing. You cant implement compensation for a thought process because unless your character is directly wired to your real life brain, you're always going to have a lag and delay over your character, which means no matter how good your reflexes are, you're going to get hit by hazards and not be able to shoot anything. You cant have movement compensation for setup animations and then absolutely none when it comes to aiming or throwing kunai and stuff? Its just not fun to have to struggle with a character that does everything late or not at all.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Onite

[CrazyCanadian24]

[Keetsune]

Totaly agreed with OP, too many unpredicteble  parkour.

The only response problems I've ever had in this game have to do with my player stopping and me having to click my forward button like 4 more times to get him to move again. Might be a problem with the key mapping of me having mouse2 as forward, but still annoying. +1

Same with sprint which activating only after 3-4 times u togle shift, after couple of hours my little finger is incapable of doing his job and hurt as hell.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Keetsune

[Flunky]

the sprint key is one of the worst i've ever seen in a game with sprint, which is impressive for how important it is here. you eventually get used to it, mostly, but if i'm holding the damn thing down then i want to sprint. i don't want to have to release it and press it again because i reloaded or got knocked down or whatever, especially when it isn't clear when you're allowed to press it again. there are better ways to make the mastery of movement an interesting challenge for the player

 

and F*** the forward roll that happens when you fall down a distance and don't/can't slide

[TwiceDead]

Yes and it looks terribly artificial. So artificial in fact, that it seems like its part of the function of the Warframe itself, not due to the athletic prowess of the Tenno in it. That or they are mechanic/animation placeholders.

 

 

So what you're saying is basically that it looks so broken it has to be intended...? 

... Really? That's the argument you're going with here? 

 

Sorry, but that doesn't really help the cause.

 

 

I've never, ever, ever, ever performed a roll when attempting to jump?

 

Just what exactly are you playing here?

 

It certainly isn't Warframe -- the Space Bar does not cause you to roll. Ever.

 

Oh wait. If you're currently sliding, you will somersault through the air with a forward flip and you will roll when you hit the ground.

 

Are you attempting to hit the Sprint Key + Spacebar simultaneously, maybe? Maybe your keyboard is going kaput and it is confusing spacebar/shift keypresses?

 

I'd love to have your ignorance on this subject, or be as fortunate to blatantly ignore/not notice/never encounter an issue when it is literally rubbing it's buttcheeks in your face. That does however not make my claims false. The issue is there. Just because you can't see it doesn't make it true, as is the same for o2. 

 

I'd be a complete moron to miss the mark with a mile. Of course it is Warframe! Else I would've been on another forum whining about the issue. 

 

As I already said in the OP, no the keyboard is not at fault, as it works perfectly fine in any other game or situation I am using it in, there's no reason it shouldn't work in Warframe, so this is a fault in the game. 

Edited June 3, 2013 by TwiceDead

[CharginTarge]

I fully agree. I've made a topic about this before, but I am replying here to show my support. The controls are still terribly unresponsive and need to be changed, as I see people sturggling with them on a daily basis (myself included). Running up a wall, jumping over a hole in the sewer pipe, jumping over a fence and rolling instead of sprinting are the most common offenders that I see.

[JamnikPucek]

So what you're saying is basically that it looks so broken it has to be intended...? 

... Really? That's the argument you're going with here? 

 

Sorry, but that doesn't really help the cause.

 

That was not my argument at all. Artificial != broken. Placeholder = not intended. Neither of the two options provided were intended to lead to the conclusion you drew.

 

and F*** the forward roll that happens when you fall down a distance and don't/can't slide

 

Let go of the run key before you touch down on the ground. You will not roll, instead do a ~1s recovery animation in place.

 

i don't want to have to release it and press it again because i reloaded or got knocked down or whatever, especially when it isn't clear when you're allowed to press it again.

 

Can move = can sprint. Never was unclear to me. Also, reloading does not break sprint.

[Flunky]

Let go of the run key before you touch down on the ground. You will not roll, instead do a ~1s recovery animation in place.

 

that one's way worse because it stops you dead in your tracks

 

and i'm not sure why i said reloading but replace it with firing or any number of other actions that interrupt sprint

Edited June 3, 2013 by Flunky

[JamnikPucek]

that one's even worse because it stops you

 

and i'm not sure why i said reloading but replace it with firing or any number of other actions that interrupt sprint

 

Yes, thats them breaks. When jumping from high altitudes, you either need to neutralize momentum by rolling or stopping and using your knees. To me thats working as intended. If you don't want to stop, then why would you mind the roll? If you roll off a cliff, that means you failed at timing/aiming the jump. But you can avoid that by the mentioned stop-in place recovery. I fail to see how is this a bad mechanic, it promotes looking before you leap and/or adaptation. Which freerunning is partially all about to my knowledge.

 

Why shouldn't firing interrupt sprint? You either move in a fluid, dynamic way which requires proper arm movement or you slow down to actually use your gun. Even for hip-fire, the motion and posture required to maintain stability to fire in the general direction you are aiming for excludes running at full force. You can still run at a regular speed and hip-fire. Again, I fail to see how is that a bad mechanic, requires you to think/adapt about where you sprint and how.

 

What other actions interrupt sprint and you think they shouldn't? "any number of other actions" says absolutely nothing. 

[HomeyCDawg]

Yeah controls are hosed and getting more so all the time. The shift button not doing anything occasionally is a constant source of frustration. There are times when I have to press shift up to 4 times before it starts working. Pressing the "use" keys seems to "reset" it, so I suspect this is probably a rather simple case of a multi-function button not turning on/off all functions correctly. Spacebar is incredibly annoying as well. Why on earth can I hardly ever jump on an incline or decline? I can't even think of a reason for that one. Plus the accidental forward dodges, which really shouldn't even be mapped to spacebar to begin with. Also, last set of updates further screwed up wallrunning again, so at least you don't start wallruns just by pressing shift anymore (like was happening for a while), but now there are all kinds of places where you just can't stick to walls anymore.

 

Please DE, make cleaning up the controls a higher priority.

[Xylia]

I'd love to have your ignorance on this subject, or be as fortunate to blatantly ignore/not notice/never encounter an issue when it is literally rubbing it's buttcheeks in your face. That does however not make my claims false. The issue is there. Just because you can't see it doesn't make it true, as is the same for o2. 

 

I'd be a complete moron to miss the mark with a mile. Of course it is Warframe! Else I would've been on another forum whining about the issue. 

 

As I already said in the OP, no the keyboard is not at fault, as it works perfectly fine in any other game or situation I am using it in, there's no reason it shouldn't work in Warframe, so this is a fault in the game.

 

Then you tell me how it is you've managed to somehow roll when pressing the Spacebar, and somehow in 90 Hours of Playtime, I've not yet had that happen to me a single time?

 

I'd love to know your answer for this. In fact, I asked a friend who has put nearly 150 hours into the game and he says he doesn't remember anytime the Spacebar ever made him roll either.

 

We're both playing the same game, the same build version as it is online and we're forced to play the latest build, what else is different between you and me?

 

Our Computers.

 

Therefore, if your computer is doing something mine isn't, then you're experiencing a software or a hardware problem and it isn't the game's actual code at fault (otherwise my computer would be doing it too, which it isn't).

 

Perhaps the game's code is conflicting with a third-party keyboard driver. What kind of keyboard do you use? Do you use a G12 or something? I use a standard Microsoft Natural, no fancy buttons or drivers.

 

The reason I ask, is because it is FAR more helpful to DE if we try to analyze WHY your Spacebar is causing you to roll instead of yelling "DE FIX THIS!!!!" on the Forums without providing any information whatsoever at all about your computer and/or its drivers or other technical info that might help determine if it is a bug or feature.

 

Clearly, if you hit a button that is supposed to do One Thing and it does something else entirely, that sounds more like a Bug to me.

 

But, as I said, I've NEVER seen this bug happen, so that makes me think it is a software/hardware problem that DE needs to be aware of so they can fix it.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Xylia