Melee Improvements And Additions

[-Scourge]

As someone who grew up playing hack and slash games like Devil may cry, ninja gaiden, god of war, darksiders, tenchu, shinobido and shinobi (ps2 days <3) to list a "few". warframe's melee combat has always been a huge issue for me. 

 

mainly because.. 

Short version.

In comparison to the first two games i just mentioned, it's inferior. clunky. underdeveloped. weak.

 

Long version.

Melee in warframe suffers the same issue parkour 1.0 had. It feels unnecessarily clunky. after each swing, you are forced to wait for the animation to end to even be able to jump/block/switch weapons/shoot/use a power/sprint/go prone/roll, you get the idea.. and this issue is even worse for heavy weapons. (now this might be a limitation of the game engine but there's probably a way around that, atleast for some of the things i'm going to suggest.) This.. for a game like warframe, where there are mobs of enemies constantly shooting at you, knocking you down/pulling you and staggering you. is a HUGE issue. Point is, melee should have smooth transitions from one action to another, making it feel a little bit lot more efficient, interactive and most importantly.. Viable. however, i will also be adding a little bit more mechanics that will help make the melee system feel a little bit more complete.

 

I will be explaining bigger additions individually and smaller ones in a list afterwards. here goes..

 

                                                                                  -Big additions-

 

                                                                                 -melee Lock-on-

Add a dedicated lock-on feature that can only be used while in melee mode (by pressing a certain key obviously).  it will lock the camera at an angle to the side like this:

I will be using bloodborne as an example.

 

basically when you're locked-on to a target,

 

-target's health will be displayed as if you were aiming at them, 

 

-your movement will revolve around them, that includes rolling/side rolling, sprinting, jumping and bullet jumping. also going prone but why would you do that. and your attacks will be directed at them.

 

-dedicated lock-on stance for the character. you will be a little bit harder to stagger -by- the target.(not necessary but a nice feature non the less)

 

-your "combos" will have a chance to stagger the target (guaranteed while channelling.)

(for this kind of stagger i would suggest new dedicated animations for the "lock-on stagger" that are quicker/heavier depending on type of weapon used. slash/puncture based = quick stagger/impact = heavy stagger/purely elemental = no stagger (unless channelling). this should help better translate weapon impact.)

 

-able to swiftly shift lock-on to different targets.

 

-you can mix and match between lock-on combat or normal combat to disorient foes in pvp. or fight honorably in the tenno ways by locking-on if you so wish.

 

-(unnecessary but cool) both tenno striking at the same time during lock-on in pvp will result in a 

clash, which basically nullifies both attacks and triggers a soft stagger unless one of them is a charge attack/channelled attack (in the channelled case, only the extra damage from channelling will pass thru).

 

Now ofcourse this is optional. This lock-on won't change the current melee system, these features will only work if you lock-on to a target. lock-on is ofcourse mainly intended for 1 vs 1 situations like bosses/pvp/heavy units etc.. our current system is still just as good for mobs of enemies.An actual lock-on reticle on the target is not necessary but it would be nice if it was an option and every warframe had a different unique reticle. also add a toggle feature in the options for lock-on on press or hold.

 

                                                           -Melee-to-Action transitions(+some new moves)-

 

Basically be able to smoothly and swiftly transition from a melee attack to a different action like block/roll etc with dedicated animations. these transitions happen slightly before the actual melee animations end, to eliminate the clunky feeling of the game. (mid-swing transitions don't apply for combos that have a built-in jump into them due to difficulty of implementation and that's fine.)

 

-holding weapon swap key during attack to transition into primary weapon aim at the end of the attack or simply press it to transition into secondary weapon aim.

 

-press prone during attack to transition into a prone state.

 

-block during attack to transition into blocking state.

 

-sprint to execute an attack-cancelling (beginning to mid swing rather than at near end of the animation)short-distance dash in the direction you were aiming that will also transition into a normal sprint afterwards.

 

-press the jump key mid swing to execute a new attack-cancelling strike that is different between 

heavy and light weapons.

for lighter weapons, pressing the jump key will execute an upward strike that sends the target flying(the above mentioned transitions work on this move. imagine transitioning into a primary weapon headshot after sending a lancer flying.. Mmm),holding the jump button however will send you both up, you a bit higher, high enough to be able to do the new parkour 2.0 stepping stone move to extend your jump and go into a slam, or a XxX_mid-air 360 aim glide bow headshot_XxX. just imagine the possibilities.. for heavy weapons, pressing jump mid-end swing will execute an upward strike that will start from behind(a homerun basically) to hit more enemies and send them all flying to the moon and back. holding it will transition into a strong 1-2 second groundslam with both knockdown immunity and 75% damage resistance

 

- ^spoiler^ for the lighter weapon attack-cancel there should be some damage resistance of 50% and knockdown immunity at the start of the animation of the attack(of course the faster the weapon is, the less frames of resistance there is so it becomes less reliable but still there for the pros to use.)

 

as For transitions you can actually mix and match. For example: pressing prone and block mid swing will transition into a blocking while prone state. or prone with weapon swap to transition into prone while aiming secondary etc..

 

                                                              -charge attacks and channelling attacks-

Instead of being simply stronger attacks, they should be attacks that aren't possible with normal combos or are unique to the weapon. for a glaive its basically throwing it, a gunblade well.. shooting with it, a jat kittag.. it's iconic spin. all done mid-swing with different variations. i will leave that up to DE.

 

as for channelling, in it's current state barely anyone uses it since it consumes the same resource the warframe does without giving enough of a benifit which is even worse when using channelling mods. well i came up with an idea just my 2 cents, a quick thought.

what if successfully hitting an enemy with a full combo yielded a new resource that melee weapons  use to channel? some combos yield more than others ofcourse and instead of consuming it based on how many were hit in a swing it will now count as one resource per swing key press, since energy is no longer an issue this should be balanced now.

 

A few underdeveloped ideas...  weapons like a greatsword for example could do a spin like the one in cleaving whirlwind (without the delay between inputs.) for a charge attack and pressing the jump button during it will transition into a jump with two vertical spins and ends with a groundslam.

sort of like the "revolver" move from devil may cry 3 https://youtu.be/kv6_PKKCHHM?t=16s

 

                                                                -Small additions(unnecssary but nice)-

-Add a sword alone pvp mode? where powers and guns are disabled and energy is offered in higher quantity/at a faster rate to support channelling.

-timed blocking/counter attacks.

-directional melee verticality.(like in bloodborne) for short enemies and to actually be able to make use of the headshot multiplier.

 

I couldn't be bothered to look if anyone has suggested something similar to this, so i'm sorry if that's the case,  but all of my suggestions were inspired by other games so i'm not stealing anything from anyone.

 

This took me a total of 4 hours to think up and write, so i would really appreciate it if you took the 

time to read all of this and gave me your opinion. please, no "it's fine as it is" comments, i might have 

to kill someone if i get one of those. :)

Edited December 28, 2015 by -Scourge

[Magnulast]

Isn't melee lock-on still in this game? and the option is here too adjust the camera? or is it too restrictive...?

Combo's already nudge the enemy right, but not necessarily stagger them.....

Swiftly changing targets....umm...I never used auto-lock for long, I mean I used it twice, then took it off because I disliked it's restriction but, I agree.

I think charge attacks should stay as is, because I think they all need to fit in all conditions. It's not good to give something special rather than something that works almost everywhere.....

Umm....prone states are...kinda not needed...

Anyway, meleeing while sprinting is nice....

I read it, but it doesn't really...address the issue, and rather additions to melee....

The idea is nice, and well proposed, but I still disagree on the charge attacks.

 

Did you seriously take 4 hours to think and write?

[-Scourge]

-

there is indeed melee lock-on in the game but it doesn't work like the one i proposed it basically auto targets the nearest enemy, not very reliable but does the job. however, the one i proposed is mainly for the movement/evasion/blocking side of melee it basically helps you focus on one enemy, perfect for 1v1 situations. as for charge attacks i could care less what DE decides to do with them. they aren't really necessary tbh

they are more of a.. bonus feature at this point.

 

and yes prone states are pointless but it's a part of the game and i decided to include it.

where did you get the "meleeing while sprinting" from? i could've worded something wrong idk but if you mean the dash part, what i meant is it's basically faster roll that can stop there or continue to sprint normally for running away. no sprint meleeing lol but that would be nice too

 

if you include editing/revision scrapped ideas then yes it took me about 4 hours but then again i kinda took my time writing it. :)

Edited December 28, 2015 by -Scourge

[Magnulast]

there is indeed melee lock-on in the game but it doesn't work like the one i proposed it basically auto targets the nearest enemy, not very reliable but does the job. however, the one i proposed is mainly for the movement/evasion/blocking side of melee it basically helps you focus on one enemy, perfect for 1v1 situations. as for charge attacks i could care less what DE decides to do with them. they aren't really necessary tbh

they are more of an.. bonus feature at this point.

 

and yes prone states are pointless but it's a part of the game and i decided to include it.

where did you get the "meleeing while sprinting" from? i could've worded something wrong idk but if you mean the dash part, what i meant is it's basically faster roll that can stop there or continue to sprint normally for running away. no sprint meleeing lol but that would be nice too

 

if you include editing/revision scrapped ideas then yes it took me about 4 hours but then again i kinda took my time writing it. :)

Oh....but still...prone isn't needed.....and it slows down the pace, likewise, grenades.

[-Scourge]

kinda sad that this thread isn't getting much attention Lol

but seriously, people. we need a dedicated lock-on system for melee. there's no good reason for why we shouldn't get one.(pressing the lock-on button is as optional as it gets).

why do we need a melee lock-on system?

-cool as hell 1 versus 1 melee combat. enough said.

[-Scourge]

second chance.

[Nazrethim]

While your ideas seem cool on paper some of them can really s*ck in practice. For example, we have a melee lock-on, but any player worth it's salt will deactivate that thing because it causes you to get stuck on an enemy you don't want to attack or you can't (godam ospreys).

At first I thought Warframe would be cool with DMC combat system but now I'm thinking about something closer to Prince of Persia's FFFS (Free Form Fighting System).

[-Scourge]

While your ideas seem cool on paper some of them can really s*ck in practice. For example, we have a melee lock-on, but any player worth it's salt will deactivate that thing because it causes you to get stuck on an enemy you don't want to attack or you can't (godam ospreys).

At first I thought Warframe would be cool with DMC combat system but now I'm thinking about something closer to Prince of Persia's FFFS (Free Form Fighting System).

warframe's current auto-lock sucks, yeah, but a dmc/bloodborne style lock-on literally has no flaws since you can swap between targets at will that is if you chose to lock-on in the first place, which in the case of a horde of enemies, you obviously wouldn't.(This is the problem with warframe's lock-on. It's auto)

 

as for prince of persia's style, well that's pretty much what we have at the moment except prince of persia's lock-on is slightly better.

[Epsik-kun]

dmc/bloodborne style lock-on literally has no flaws

It has no flaws in their respective games. You are missing a very important point - Warframe isn't a 1v1 combat game. In Devil May Cry 90% of combo mechanics revolves around hitting one enemy, while 10% left are used to separate that enemy from the crowd.

In Souls games 100% of combat mechanics revolves around 1v1, while fighting more than one enemy puts you in severe disadvantage right away.

 

Meanwhile Warframe is about mutilating hundreds of enemies. You can't have any proper 1v1 mechanics in this game and hope it will work, as it won't. Channeled parry stun doesn't work. Damage reflection doesn't work. Daggers don't work. Combo finishers kinda work, but make people smile and silently whisper "dirty melee peasant".

 

If anything, it should be Dynasty Warriors combat system you might want to see in Warframe.