If De Is Planing On Making All Future End Game Locked Behind A Pay/grind Wall Like The Void Missions, I Think That's A Big Mistake.

[JunkyMonkey5]

First off, let me just say that I've really enjoyed Warframe up to this point and was at one time very excited for U8, but now I'm worried. As everyone knows U8 brought about the void missions into play. Not only are they beautiful and fun, but it is the first inkling of "end game" this game has ever had in my opinion. But I have a major problem with it. It's stuck behind a pay/grind wall to get in. I'm worried that DE might be getting a little excessive with it's business practices by asking a certain number of the player base (who has already farmed the game to death and would kill for some end game) to just pay a small fee if they want in, or get ready to farm the game a metric crap ton more. Now this all wouldn't be that big of a deal if there were other end game activities that don't count building a bigger dojo e.g., harder missions, tougher bosses, and just more all around challenge and reward as end game as opposed to just a grind/pay wall to stop everyone from tearing through it. I am hoping that the void is not where all future end game will reside but act more as a side goal if you will.

 

This may have been suggested before but I would suggest adding a new planet solely for super hard missions. Similar to WoW, Pluto would act as sort of the max level planet for the hardest the basic game can offer, and then this new planet would be like heroic dungeons, where the game straight up isn't fair and is very challenging, with only the maxed of the maxed player would even dare to try. The rewards here would be much higher also. This would make the farming in the game (and even the void missions) all around more bearable since there would be an end goal for all your trouble. This also would make smaller clans much more useful since these missions would need a lot of cooperation to succeed. I think this would make Warframe a lot more appealing to PVE MMO players like myself.

 

 

But, If all future "end game" is going to just be behind a pay/grind wall like this, then It just might be time for me to say goodbye to Warframe. Which sucks because I love this game to death but it just isn't worth the time to me.

 

 

Sorry if I come off *@##$y, I wouldn't have posted this if I didn't think this game has an insane amount of potential. But right now, it's just potential, not practice.

 

 

 

[Venarge]

You can still get all the content. You just have to earn it. Besides that. if you have a few friends who got more luck than you, they could easily invite you.

[CrazyCanadian24]

You can still get all the content. You just have to earn it. Besides that. if you have a few friends who got more luck than you, they could easily invite you.

 

Yep, grand master. Argument invalid.

[TyrOdinSon]

After update 8 i have same feelings. Suddenly after doing 4-5 hours of grinding defense mission to get only 1 void key, i realized what a waste of time and lack of fun it was. And game is suppose to be fun. Right now its pure grind fest, and with all my heart i hope it won't stay like this.

[Venarge]

Yep, grand master. Argument invalid.

well I crafted every frame but vauban. Youre argument is invalid.

Its so awesome that you made the sentence about my founder badge, because this shows that you dont have any valid arguments :D

Edited June 3, 2013 by Venarge

[Shion963]

Yep, grand master. Argument invalid.

This is a shallow point, being a grand master doesn't mean that he's going to plat get EVERYTHING.

[VKhaun]

TL;DR

 

No one needs Grand Master to do endless defense, just friends.

Edited June 3, 2013 by VKhaun

[Kadishia]

Back to the OP,

 

Dojo is what DE are trying to have the End-game content towards as well.

[Onite]

In my opinion the best free to play model for cash shop items is boosts to EXP and Currency gain amounts. Because they still make you work and play with other people. Customization options are also an extremely excellent way to get people to pay real cash. The more customization you add, the more people will spend. Its easy and fun. Doesnt interrupt core gameplay and doesnt punish people who want to enjoy the game with shallow pockets. Cash microtransaction options should always gild the edges of a game, not be a key component.

 

And again, for those arguing you can "still get the paid for content." You practically cant because of the amount of insane grinding and work going into it. They do this simply to say "you have access to it." when in reality they increase the workload to purposely be unenjoyable and not worth your time so you can spend your real time at a job to support them with platinum purchases. Thats the whole issue with the ethics behind it that people dont like.

 

Its a game meant for enjoyment and entertainment, and when you purposely make it so the game is unenjoyable unless you cave and purchase cash currency, you're then turning it into a cash grab. An unnecessary one.

[winterau]

You can still get all the content. You just have to earn it. Besides that. if you have a few friends who got more luck than you, they could easily invite you.

 

I used to agree with you (pre Update 8). Now unfortunately that is no longer the case. The Update 8 model for the void no longer allows people to earn content. Instead they have to get extremely lucky with the drop rate to get content.

 

That is an evil way to get money out of your players.

[Venarge]

I used to agree with you (pre Update 8). Now unfortunately that is no longer the case. The Update 8 model for the void no longer allows people to earn content. Instead they have to get extremely lucky with the drop rate to get content.

 

That is an evil way to get money out of your players.

Well yeah. I have to agree with that. A simple solution would be to raise the high end drops in higher levels. Still RNG but at least you know where to find the good stuff ^^

[JunkyMonkey5]

You can still get all the content. You just have to earn it. Besides that. if you have a few friends who got more luck than you, they could easily invite you.

But that's sorta the point of my post, In my opinion I should be hampered from doing end game content by it's difficulty, not mine or my friends luck, but mine and my friends skill. Edited June 3, 2013 by JunkyMonkey5

[Mikki79]

After update 8 i have same feelings. Suddenly after doing 4-5 hours of grinding defense mission to get only 1 void key, i realized what a waste of time and lack of fun it was. And game is suppose to be fun. Right now its pure grind fest, and with all my heart i hope it won't stay like this.

 

I did 4 days of 4-5 hour grinds and got one key, that was when I quit. Not to mention it was one of the easiest type of keys to get, tier 1. Tier 3 keys are like 20 times harder to get.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Mikki79

[CrazyCanadian24]

well I crafted every frame but vauban. Youre argument is invalid.

Its so awesome that you made the sentence about my founder badge, because this shows that you dont have any valid arguments :D

 

And how do I know you're not lying? Make no mistake, it's not that I distrust you, it's that I distrust anyone with a founders badge higher than Hunter.

Also, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, in either direction.

[Stupid_Idiot]

Didn't they mention that the RNG is somewhat broken?  I think that's where the misunderstanding comes from.

[Milkin]

Yep, grand master. Argument invalid.

Yes, sometimes you should think little bit more before you rage.

But JunkeyMonkey5 has a point there, it really kinda feels like you just have to kill most of your braincells if you wish to get void keys by playing. It isn't even hard - it's just boring. And when you get to the void you realise how easy place even tower III is(Ofcourse loot is ok, and stuff). Yesterday we duoed it easily with my friend, and now when i think about it, i have a feeling I could probably solo it with some effort, and I'm not even a korean fps-God.

Thou, DE has promised us more content, but as their small team is most likely just humans(as they mentioned everyone in the last stream) it comes out pretty slow, which hits us more hc oriented players harder.

Before update 8 came out i kept 6 weeks pause from Warframe to get "more new content" right away, but now im starting to think about taking other vacation again from this game. Maybe there is more to play next time.

Thank God they promised more difficulty too for us at last stream. At this point I'm willing to believe they are not just speaking S#&$ about it, because DE have kinda achieved(almost) everything they have promised us, atleast for now.

PS:This came out more like offtopic, but never mind me.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Milkin

[CrazyCanadian24]

Yes, sometimes you should think little bit more before you rage.

 

Please do explain how that was RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.

 

Also, you have to admit, it is more than common for grand masters to be heavily biased.

[Milkin]

Please do explain how that was RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.

 

Also, you have to admit, it is more than common for grand masters to be heavily biased.

When you come here to point fingers with no real points at all, be glad that someone is willing to show you how improperly you are acting. You automatically suppose people who supported DE with over 90euros, think they are better than people who play for free or that they can't _imagine_ what this game would be without platinium. Of course money has it's own power to rise in someones head, but, sorry. I still can't see much sense in your logic.

Yes, it's internet and usually people who decide to behave this way never learn until they themselves choose to do so. = That makes my comment most likely completely useless & Generator of more rage. That's why it's usually bad idea to show someone how immaturely they are behaving in the internet.

Yep, grand master. Argument invalid.

Anyway, your comment was just something that i could not ignore when I saw it.

PS: And I'm already regretting the fact, that I pasted your words in my message, because writing this up is not gonna be worth the effort.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Milkin

[matrixEXO]

And how do I know you're not lying? Make no mistake, it's not that I distrust you, it's that I distrust anyone with a founders badge higher than Hunter.

Also, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, in either direction.

And yet I actually am not really bothered to refute. Why? It's called distrust due to lack of evidence. I did most of my stuffs grinding and only bought the Vauban and Stalker pack. Then decided to reset once the reset came out of temporary retirement. Oh and I did both buy the key packs and farm for them myself.

 

Back to the main topic at hand, DE already said they will do something about the RNG apart from keeping it at just RNG. I can't wait to see what they would do but I am putting some skepticism into their actions because of the few recent updates that happened to cause a lot of... issues. Needless to say, grind walls are bad for games. Grinding itself is fine but an absurdly high grind wall is not a good design.

[CrazyCanadian24]

When you come here to point fingers with no real points at all, be glad that someone is willing to show you how improperly you are acting. You automatically suppose people who supported DE with over 90euros, think they are better than people who play for free or that they can't _imagine_ what this game would be without Platinum. Of course money has it's own power to rise in someones head, but, sorry. I still can't see much sense in your logic.

 

Thing is, that's exactly how about 90% of founders above Hunter act. I'm not lying, either - stalk the forums for a while and you'll see what I mean, I guarantee it.

 

Also, on a more blunt note, how exactly the f**k am I supposed to know the mentality of someone? I may be crazy, but I'm not psychic!

[Milkin]

After these precise calculations about how people act here, back to the topic.

 

I used to agree with you (pre Update 8). Now unfortunately that is no longer the case. The Update 8 model for the void no longer allows people to earn content. Instead they have to get extremely lucky with the drop rate to get content.

 

That is an evil way to get money out of your players.

I actually never thought about keys that way. Interesting.

All i have to say to this is repeat myself and say, i don't myself like the thing you have to bore S#&$ out of yourself to get keys, to unlock more easy content (doesn't matter if it's tower I, II or III). Ofcourse it's new nice new area and stuff, but not a real challenge really. In top of that you gotta grind towers too much if you wish to get something out of it. Unless ofcourse, my horse, you get real lucky.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Milkin

[bualeminkrali]

check out those stats about key drop rates, its around %0.17 per mission(so even if its equal chance for all kind of keys tower 3 key would be around %0.05, and you have to get in tower and wait for a %12ish drop rate items, 4 times to get your frost set which is unrealistic to obtain), so please dont say i have to earn my reward, played any kind of mission which possible to get a key reward since launch, and i got only 1 single lvl1 tower key in 10 days, so even grind doesnt work, there is only one way to obtain those key which is plats.

 

keep payment based items at cosmetic level, or at least give me a way to obtain them via playing game.

[MrTetsuo]

The odds of getting a Tower key from defense missions are minimal, to say the least. It's just misleading to state that "Tower keys can be acquired for free" when the drop rate is so low. I used to tell friends how awesome F2P model DE had (cosmetic stuff, pre-fab warframes/weapons, for people that don't want to farm, and inventory space) but now, I'm afraid I can't do that anymore. The current "high end" content is locked behind a 5 dollar per 5 ticket ride, which should take any group of 4 less than a hour to finish.

 

Vauban is mostly a platinum only Warframe (unless you happen to play 24/7 or have a lot of luck with alerts) as well as the Frost Prime (which was supposed be to a prize for the weekend event, sure, except the part where you need dozens of Tower keys to farm the BP parts).

 

I could totally understand if Tower was a payed for DLC pack or if there were one reliable way to get a random key per day, but no, you can either: leech someones else key, farm defense maps until your fingers fall off or pay 5 bucks for 5 runs (which boil down to rolling the dice at the end and hope that you get what you need).

[CrazyCanadian24]

Unless ofcourse, my horse, you get real lucky.

 

 

Yeah I don't know either, just roll with it will you?

[f3llyn]

The way I see it. Void 1 keys should be fairly common, more rare than rare materials, but not as rare as catalysts and reactors are from alerts. Void 1 would have a really low drop rate for the void equipment, lower than it is now by quite a bit. And the only way outside of paying to get void 2 keys is to play void 1, and the only way to get void 3 keys is to play void 2 and so on. With drop chances for the void stuff going up quite a bit as the level goes up.

 

I mostly agree with the OP and if DE wants to show the players that they're not trying for anything more than a blatant cash grab with void keys changes along these lines need to be made.

 

Not for lack of trying but I haven't set foot inside the void yet. The RNG gods have cursed me, no visits from the stalker and no void keys. It would be nice to get in there one day to see what all the hype is about.

Edited June 3, 2013 by f3llyn