[Pvp] Daikyu Got A Nerf?!

[Phasedragon]

Weapon switching is really fast with mods.

Not if you're trying to move. Most animations restart the whole process.

[_BUSHIDO_]

I picked up the Daikyu yesterday and played 5-6 hours with it. I don't know what it used to be like, but it seem to be in a pretty good spot at the moment. A few other players punched holes in me with their Daikyus and that's my reference for the damage it does.

A Volt Prime with 266.3 EHP (145 shields, 100 health, 70 armor) dies in 1 shot in the 15+ meter range. Without factoring in bonuses against shield and armored flesh, the Daikyu hits for 284.2 damage with Spring-Loaded Broadhead.

A close range shot left me with 44 health, and that was usually followed by 2 Furis shots that finished me off.

Looking at Pythadragon's EHP charts, Volt Prime is in the middle as far as EHP is concerned, and the tankiest frame is at 306.6 (Frost Prime) - not that far off. With the impact conversion mod, you should be able to one-shot him (might be possible without it too, haven't tested it). Given that the Frost should be running one of the +0.1 mobility, -EHP mods, you'll be one-shotting him for sure.

Now, if you're complaining about the close-up damage, I think it's fine the way it is. Even as a Daikyu newb, I didn't find it too hard to use it as a shotgun and it doesn't require that much skill. If it was one-shotting a lot of frames in close range before, then yeah, it was way too powerful.

I was about to type up something similar. Thanks for saving me the time. Just because they're hitting with every second arrow doesn't mean they're doing it randomly.

Naqel, as for your flicking comment... I have absolutely no idea what you mean. Comes into play when you have to hit more than once. What?

It's right, Daikyu is still a Good weapon. And if you are flipping around with bullet jump mods you can basically one shot people.

The problem is that everyone is left with 10~25% of their hp (not sure about the numbers, just to make the idea) and while medium and tank frames have most of the time negative mobility, the squishy and faster frames haven't that disadvantages. Why do they die in 3 seconds if being hit by an assault rifle and (talking about dps and rof) die always in 3 seconds if being hit by Daikyu?

I don't get this

Edited December 22, 2015 by _BUSHIDO_

[Naqel]

Your expectations of a player 2-shotting strictly with the Daikyu is rather unreasonable for the nature of how combat plays out in Warframe.

 

No, it is not.

If you don't want to use your full arsenal, then this is an entirely reasonable handicap to end up with.

 

Another factor is the similarity of the problem with Melee 2.0.

Melee 2.0 compensates with high numbers, for it's obvious usability flaws.

 

Daikyu isn't even a real bow, it's just a poor Lanka skin that suffers from the same issues it originally did.

Lanka got a faster charge, and eventually a semi-charged shot, recently a damage boost.

I fully expect it to replace Daikyu in PvP once it's implemented.

 

If Daikyu handled like the other bows(not like $#!@), it wouldn't need to be an all-or-nothing weapon.

 

 

And this...doesn't conform to your statements about counter-play and skill...

 

Ideally, that mod would not exist.

It dose however, and I accept it as a fair compromise, since 15 meters is far enough to make a case for actual skill being involved in a deciding manner(leading starts to matter, there's more opportunity to break LoS, etc.).

 

Dose that sound more 'consistent'?

Edited December 22, 2015 by Naqel

[-FV-HoloTheWiseWolf]

No, it is not.

If you don't want to use your full arsenal, then this is an entirely reasonable handicap to end up with.

 

Another factor is the similarity of the problem with Melee 2.0.

Melee 2.0 compensates with high numbers, for it's obvious usability flaws.

 

Daikyu isn't even a real bow, it's just a poor Lanka skin that suffers from the same issues it originally did.

Lanka got a faster charge, and eventually a semi-charged shot, recently a damage boost.

I fully expect it to replace Daikyu in PvP once it's implemented.

 

If Daikyu handled like the other bows(not like $#!@), it wouldn't need to be an all-or-nothing weapon.

 

 

 

Ideally, that mod would not exist.

It dose however, and I accept it as a fair compromise, since 15 meters is far enough to make a case for actual skill being involved in a deciding manner(leading starts to matter, there's more opportunity to break LoS, etc.).

 

Dose that sound more 'consistent'?

I'm sorry but you don't deserve to be posting in this thread if you can't even realize that the Daikyu is a real bow. Honestly, It's the most true bow in the game. It's a LONG BOW. It has range and POWER. Well, not anymore. Also, It obviously doesn't handle poorly. It's about how you use it. If it handled as poorly as you obviously think it does then it wouldn't have needed the nerf that DE wrongly gave it. 

[Nighttide77]

You don't need to two shot Daiky. Hit it once and enemy left with less then 10 hp. Use ability or secondary to finish.

You missed the conversation, man. The dude I was responding to was trying to justify two-shots with the Daikyu as skillful...which doesn't make any sense in Warframe's combat environment.

[Nighttide77]

No, it is not.

If you don't want to use your full arsenal, then this is an entirely reasonable handicap to end up with.

Another factor is the similarity of the problem with Melee 2.0.

Melee 2.0 compensates with high numbers, for it's obvious usability flaws.

Daikyu isn't even a real bow, it's just a poor Lanka skin that suffers from the same issues it originally did.

Lanka got a faster charge, and eventually a semi-charged shot, recently a damage boost.

I fully expect it to replace Daikyu in PvP once it's implemented.

If Daikyu handled like the other bows(not like $#!@), it wouldn't need to be an all-or-nothing weapon.

Ideally, that mod would not exist.

It dose however, and I accept it as a fair compromise, since 15 meters is far enough to make a case for actual skill being involved in a deciding manner(leading starts to matter, there's more opportunity to break LoS, etc.).

Dose that sound more 'consistent'?

I believed you were trying to justify 'skill' as being able to make 2 consecutive shots with the Daikyu. If that wasn't what you were trying to convey, then I apologize for my misunderstanding.

The Lanka can be partial-charge fired, indefinitely hold charge, has a scope, and will probably utilize the Lie in Wait mod, probably making its base damage much lower than the Daikyu. It also deals electric damage, right? Which means you can't adjust its damage type with the mods we currently have. Those subtle differences change the way either weapon handles enough that I'm sure some players will prefer one over the other.

The charm of the Daikyu is that it *is* an all or nothing weapon. That's what makes it rewarding for some, even if it makes others dislike it.

The same might be said for the Opticor...with the exception of its AOE...but meh.

And concerning Spring-loaded Broadhead...*shrug* not trying to make any personal attacks or anything. Just thought you were adamant about no 1-shots...and when people make exceptions to their own statements, it takes credibility away from the idea posed; in this case, the idea of balancing counter-play in WF.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Nighttide77

[-InV-igo95862]

Not if you're trying to move. Most animations restart the whole process.

 

I constantly switch between my sniper and secondary. Never had any issues.

[Lordricker]

i have yet to see anyone that can land distance shots with any bow consistently (like more than 5%) Its too easy to move unpredictably even in the air to try and lead someone. Have i hit players from a distance, yes most of the time its the sitting ducks but when it is a good player i hit it feels pretty great

[-FV-HoloTheWiseWolf]

My

 

You missed the conversation, man. The dude I was responding to was trying to justify two-shots with the Daikyu as skillful...which doesn't make any sense in Warframe's combat environment.

Shieeeet. My bad.

[-InV-igo95862]

I decided to try out Daiky after "nerf".

 

It is still the best bow out of all.

 

It is not difficult to use at all.

-Lucky shot does not affect accuracy at all. I used max rank and never saw my arrows deflect under weird angles.

-30 arrows. Spam it all day. I never ran out of ammo.

-Charge time is really short and you have 5 seconds to wait for clear shot.

-Charge it while bullet jumping. charge it while double jumping, charge it while ledge grabbing, charge it while wall jumping. Nothing interrupts the charge.

 

 

It definitely does not need any buffs.

Edited December 24, 2015 by -CM-igo95862

[Nighttide77]

-Lucky shot does not affect accuracy at all. I used max rank and never saw my arrows deflect under weird angles.

-Charge it while bullet jumping. charge it while double jumping, charge it while ledge grabbing, charge it while wall jumping. Nothing interrupts the charge.

 

Eh...Lucky Shot does effect its long range shots.  Range at 15m, nah, no issue, though at 15m it is almost hitscan anyway.  When you're trying to tag someone who's become too comfortable and is standing still in their sniping nest, the mod can throw it off enough to miss.  It's one reason why I don't use Lucky Shot on my Daikyu normally.

 

Dodge rolls reset the charge.

 

I'm with ya, regardless.  The EHP balance allows players to 1-shot any frame from 15m.  It's a reverse Tigris, and I'm okay with that.  I don't like saying this, but if players want their 1-shots in point blank, there's the Tigris that can fit that desire.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

I decided to try out Daiky after "nerf".

 

It is still the best bow out of all.

 

It is not difficult to use at all.

-Lucky shot does not affect accuracy at all. I used max rank and never saw my arrows deflect under weird angles.

-30 arrows. Spam it all day. I never ran out of ammo.

-Charge time is really short and you have 5 seconds to wait for clear shot.

-Charge it while bullet jumping. charge it while double jumping, charge it while ledge grabbing, charge it while wall jumping. Nothing interrupts the charge.

 

 

It definitely does not need any buffs.

You clearly did not use the daikyu much

 

1) okay you can slide with that

 

2) Spam all day? Really? Spam all day? You cant spam a weapon thats inheriently slow but okay.

 

3) Really short? It's the longest time of all the bows. 2nd place to Opticor. In a game thats inheriently fast paced this matters. Remember what we are playing here. And 5 seconds to wait, so what when a player of equal skill is flying all over the place and you are sparring with him, idk about you but that 5 second hold time is more  of a disadvantage. 

 

But of course judging by this statement you are assuming that the only method of daikyu play is to camp all the way in the back of the map. Which was never warframe's style of play. Or to poke a shot and slap the number keys like how a toddler slaps his lasagna.

 

4) Yet you forget the most important thing, rolling. Many conclave players both new and old roll. And rolling interrupts the charge to me thats more important than anything you mentioned above.

[Lordricker]

I decided to try out Daiky after "nerf".

 

It is still the best bow out of all.

 

It is not difficult to use at all.

-Lucky shot does not affect accuracy at all. I used max rank and never saw my arrows deflect under weird angles.

-30 arrows. Spam it all day. I never ran out of ammo.

-Charge time is really short and you have 5 seconds to wait for clear shot.

-Charge it while bullet jumping. charge it while double jumping, charge it while ledge grabbing, charge it while wall jumping. Nothing interrupts the charge.

 

 

It definitely does not need any buffs.

 

Why are you saying this igo this isnt even right 

 

-lucky shot does affect it

-if you spammed it all the time and never ran out of arrows then you were getting killed which means you were not doing so well with it (i agree ammo should be lower)

-charge time is really short? compared to what ?

-you were almost right about it not interrupting charge except for like the second most commonly used move of rolling that resets it