Current Problems With The Game

[MASKSMITH]

Here's a list of what I think is currently wrong with the game. I'll preface this with saying I have about 243 hours playtime; that is not meant to brag, or accomplish anything other than establishing that I am not new to the game and understand how it works. I do not play games I hate for 240+ hours and I love Warframe, but I think DE has made a plethora of mistakes that, if rectified, could benefit the game and bring in more new players, as well as their money.

 

Problem 1: The platinum prices.

 

I realize DE has said they are taking a look at this and platinum discounts are meant to be a slight bandage for the problem but I want them to examine the platinum prices very carefully and compare them to similar F2P games pricing structure to see how it stacks up. In short, it does not. The prices are exorbitant and many new players who normally wouldn't mind dropping a few bucks to pick up a warframe and a few weapons will be completely turned away by having to spend $20-$25 bucks to do so, rather than a much more reasonable price of a few bucks. I have spent platinum in game, but I feel I would have spent more if my money carried greater weight. Also as a side note, the price for rushing foundry times is ridiculously high and often only slightly lower than buying the weapon straight up, and does not scale to the time left on the crafting. Another big mistake, as if crafting times only cost 5ish platinum people would likely not mind spending so much time on them.

 

Problem 2: Forma

 

Forma were a godawful idea. Not because there is anything wrong with polarization, that is a fine mechanic. No, the problem with Forma is that they are essential to far too many processes in the current game. They are used to make dojo rooms, polarize, and craft weapons; this is silly, especially for something so very rare. I would suggest removing the polarizing ability from Forma and issuing a new item for that purpose so that Forma can simply be used as crafting currency for dojo rooms and weapons.

 

Problem 3: Mastery

 

This is simply tedious. There is no point to owning a level 30 weapon when you introduce weapons that require high rankings on a constant basis considering that they grant no mastery. After 240 hours I am level six, not yet high enough to use several weapons introduced in the new update. That's a pretty huge wall for a lot of casual players. I'd suggest making Rank 30 weapons "fake" level, still granting you mastery, but not increasing the mod slots. Also I'd increase mastery gained overall; introducing a new player to a 100+ hour slog to use a weapon they are interested in is likely to cause players to give up instead.

 

Problem 4: Ridiculous drop rates and crafting requirements

 

Ten control modules for a SINGLE GUN? Control modules that only drop off a single planet, and are most commonly dropped off a boss that can instead drop nano spores, fieldron, or ferrite? This is incredibly frustrating and can even drive away the most diehard of players. I don't have much more to say on this as drop rates and RNG are pretty hot topic right now.

 

Problem 5: Balance

 

DE knows about this, mostly, and I'll trust they'll address it eventually, but I just wanted to make a note of the fact that many weapons and abilities are currently far below the strength of their counterparts. Longswords as a weapon class are almost entirely useless, many of the new clan research weapons are weak, and many frame abilities are completely ignored in favor of the others. This is something that DE needs to take time and energy to look at; even though it isn't exciting or interesting for them, it is very discouraging and limits the options of players, as well as rendering some of DE's work kind of pointless. If you can show me anyone that uses the Machete for any reason other than "looks cool", I'll eat a hat.

 

Problem 6: Enemy design.

 

Update 8 introduced Corpus Tech. Corpus that can deploy drones and are slightly hardier than regular corpus. This is a good enemy, adds a new element to fighting the Corpus and does not remove control from the player.

 

Update 8 also introduced Scorpions. They go against all rational thought and idea of good enemy design. DE has been told for a long, long time that enemies who remove control from players are an annoyance, unfun and have no place in the game. They responded to this by adding an enemy that removes control from players. This is a bad idea. No one has ever had fun being stunlocked, ever. It does not make the game more "difficult" simply more annoying. I am in full agreement that the game is lacking in difficulty and could use something to make more hardcore players happy, however, rollerballs and their ilk are simply not the way to do so and should be reworked to provide a more fun, interesting experience that contributes to the game rather than detracting from it. Anyone who says they aren't "that bad" needs to take a step back and realize that even though if they only consider them an annoyance, no game has ever benefited from annoying its players.

 

That is all I can think of at the moment. Please, provide feedback as I'd like to see why anyone would consider these unproblematic or unreasonable as I think the average player would greatly benefit from each issue being addressed and fixed before DE goes and adds more new content to fix later.

[Mickey1779]

I think the biggest issue with forma is the sheer amount needed for a small to medium sized clan to start a Dojo to even be able to research the new weapons.

I do not mind the idea of needing 1 Forma for one of the new high end weapons. The issue is that to get to that stage you need to spend 75 Forma just to put in the research labs in the first place.

75 Forma for a 100+ person clan is not that bad, but 75 Forma for a 10-20 person clan is a lot. Hoping that when the revised room costs are released the Forma required is part of the resource changes.

[Hatr]

Adding the forma brought them a lot of money since it's drop rate is.. awfull, you can easily get the "secret weapons" but very hard to get formas.. because of this i doubt the forma system will change, it's too tempting to keep it as it is. I've talked about this before.. why have they messed with hek and gorgon that time if they were planning to add polarising possibilities. You gotta see shotguns with full damage mods..

 

I agree that crafting material requirements are kinda ridiculous, till now we used to be okay with 1 control, 1 cell and so on, we're also asking for harder bosses, i'm curious how .. average rare material drop rate + strong bosses + high crafting costs will turn out to be.

 

Scorpions.. they are annoying! They just knock you down and that's all, remove them please

[MASKSMITH]

I think the biggest issue with forma is the sheer amount needed for a small to medium sized clan to start a Dojo to even be able to research the new weapons.

I do not mind the idea of needing 1 Forma for one of the new high end weapons. The issue is that to get to that stage you need to spend 75 Forma just to put in the research labs in the first place.

75 Forma for a 100+ person clan is not that bad, but 75 Forma for a 10-20 person clan is a lot. Hoping that when the revised room costs are released the Forma required is part of the resource changes.

They've said they plan on adjusting how much resources are required for smaller clans, and honestly that's not something that bothers me at the moment. It's mostly that its an incredibly rare material with three different uses. I'd like to use a Forma for actual polarizing, but I need to save it because I'll need it to make the clan guns, and I've already used two to make the flamethrower and prod. I'll need even more to make more guns, and for something that has less than a 1% drop rate in missions that require keys, that's just not possible unless I spend a ridiculous some of money on platinum.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Problem 1: The platinum prices.

 

Yes, I find it very contradicting as an Economics student that DE is making a Free-to-Play game which supposedly is catered towards the general populace yet set the prices of some items in the market to be almost equivalent to an entire video game.

 

This is completely counterproductive since the end result is only the rich and impatient players will actually buy the items.

 

Most people will either grind completely and/or buy the discounted packages once and that's it.

 

If the target market is the rich people, why is the game made into Free-to-Play? This just increases upkeep costs without increasing buyers.

 

It is completely irrational.

 

 

Problem 2: Forma

 

Actually if the drop rate of Forma and Forma BP is made much higher than I think the current design is still somewhat acceptable.

 

 

Problem 3: Mastery

I'd suggest making Rank 30 weapons "fake" level, still granting you mastery, but not increasing the mod slots. Also I'd increase mastery gained overall; introducing a new player to a 100+ hour slog to use a weapon they are interested in is likely to cause players to give up instead.

 

The "Fake" level suggestion you made cannot work simply because a player can effectively own just 1 weapon and continuously gain Mastery level by using Forma.

 

The idea behind Mastery is not a bad one.

 

It is just poorly implemented.

 

What it should ideally do is to let players use as many different items as possible.

 

This means possibly more revenue since players may buy the items (though I seriously doubt it due to Problem 1).

 

However, there is no real incentive currently to rank up since the weapons that you unlock at level 7 (clan weapons) aren't necessarily better than the lower levels and at the same time, you can't make them too powerful or the game will be very unfair to the low rank newbies or people who do not have access to many weapons due to the pricing and/or for whatever reasons.

 

Thus, Mastery rank really shouldn't be used as a means towards weapons only (or at all) but there should be other rewards.

 

 

 

Problem 4: Ridiculous drop rates and crafting requirements

 

The drop rates are indeed worth looking into particularly since the introduction of the clan material has diluted the drop pool.

 

 

 

Problem 5: Balance

 

There is indeed balancing issues currently.

 

However, I rather DE first introduce and/or improve enemies in terms or AI and gameplay mechanics before we look at balancing since how we balance an item should be based on its use and the thing we use them on are the enemies.

 

The current enemies are flawed thus almost anything is OP once we mod them to deal a certain level of DPS.

 

 

Problem 6: Enemy design.

 

Update 8 introduced Corpus Tech. Corpus that can deploy drones and are slightly hardier than regular corpus. This is a good enemy, adds a new element to fighting the Corpus and does not remove control from the player.

 

Update 8 also introduced Scorpions. They go against all rational thought and idea of good enemy design. DE has been told for a long, long time that enemies who remove control from players are an annoyance, unfun and have no place in the game. They responded to this by adding an enemy that removes control from players. This is a bad idea. No one has ever had fun being stunlocked, ever. It does not make the game more "difficult" simply more annoying. I am in full agreement that the game is lacking in difficulty and could use something to make more hardcore players happy, however, rollerballs and their ilk are simply not the way to do so and should be reworked to provide a more fun, interesting experience that contributes to the game rather than detracting from it. Anyone who says they aren't "that bad" needs to take a step back and realize that even though if they only consider them an annoyance, no game has ever benefited from annoying its players.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with enemies stunning players and taking control away.

 

This is a commonly used mechanic for enemies in Co-op games.

 

Some examples: L4D - Smoker, Charger, Jockey; Payday: The Heist - Taser

 

This mechanic is meant to make players cooperate by having one player save the other, who is stunned, by killing the enemy.

 

However, the problem is actually due to player mentality and also the lack of AI companions/removal of these units during solo play.

 

Most players are playing this "Co-op" game as a single player game with AI teammates that can use the chat function.

 

This is likely due to the enemies being too easy thus almost all of them can be killed alone, developing this soloist mentality.

 

I would even go out of my way to say that the current Warframe isn't worthy of the title "Co-op" until enemies improved in terms of AI and gameplay mechanics.

 

Yes, on high level defense, you may see a glimpse of some cooperation but the level of cooperation is something that an AI can probably achieve as well.

 

The only thing I find "Co-op" is perhaps the Bullet Attractor and Radial Javelin combo which requires 2 players to communicate and cooperate to pull off.

 

That is cooperation.

 

That said, I agree that some enemies currently are indeed very poorly implemented.

 

Some of them do not offer a window of escape for the players and this is bad since it takes away challenge and cause frustration.

 

What should be done is not to remove them like so many players seem to ask these days but to introduce telegraphic of their attack that allows players to anticipate and react accordingly.

 

 

 

 

Above is my opinion.

Edited June 3, 2013 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[Zectifin]

The problem is not scorpions, its the rollers. Scorpions are awesome, rollers are cheap.

[BadAimbot]

I agree that Platinum prices are too damn high. I think it is a side effect of the fact that right now farming for new weapons and such is half of the game (the other half is mod dicerolls). I think the current rate of acquiring Forma is inadequate considering how many things it's used for, plus the fact that each use is less impactful than what a Potato will give you. I'm fine with how Mastery works because it encourages you to try new weaponry, although the time/Plat it takes to get new equipment it discourages experimentation (the clan weapons in particular take so much to make, and they are very unique meaning it's hard to tell in advance whether you'll like the weapon or not).

 

Point 4 is something I referenced in the first bit of this post; those things are what the game is right now. We need a new goal for endgame. Balance is something they'll continue to try and get right (it is a beta after all) although I wish balance passes would happen more often; PvE is much harder to break than PvP. Enemies could do with some work, although since I learned that the Scorpion's grabbing rope has a travel time I haven't really disliked them that much (hate Rollers much more).

[kojicolnair]

Point 4 is the big thing for me, makes me not even want to play a lot of times.  I don't mind grinding for resources but having to do the same 1-2 planets pretty much forever really bores me.  Otherwise completely agree on everything said, although I don't mind scorpions at all but hate rollers.

[PositronicSpleen]

I think they're using the F2P business strategy of appealing to "whales", people who spend lots of money on anything and everything. The idea is that they more than make up for lost sales from normal people. At least they said they're experimenting with sales, hopefully they're decent ones.

 

Forma, on the other hand, are obviously platinum sinks. They're too rare to meet the need without buying them. And the problem is, the only real ways the game has to hand out rewards is by RNG or crafting (lots of smaller RNGs for resources). Adding a token system on top of what we have could help that, they said they'd look into it at least. And polarization shouldn't require Forma, or at most, one per item ever for unlimited polarizations.

 

As someone who is almost rank 9, mastery sucks, but it's the only long-term goal available. Dojos don't count, all they have are bad weapons and material sinks. I thought mastery locks exist so new players would learn the game before using complicated weapons/warframes, but I learned that was false a long time ago. Mastery really is a bad idea. My only guess is that maybe as people try new things they're more likely to buy them with platinum?

 

Item balance is bad. My guess is that the recent nerfs exist -- much like mastery -- to get people to use new things and possibly buy them with platinum. Otherwise where are the buffs? It's even more comical when you hear them mentioning PvP-only balance changes; they have trouble balancing a PvE game when everyone is supposed to be on the same side, not to mention polarization throws a wrench in any fairness they might hope to achieve.

 

They apparently know stunlock is bad now (despite bringing up some mythical players that like not having control). The fix to Scorpions means their mechanics affect players less often, but they're still bad. They arrive unannounced, attack without a windup, you can't reliably avoid it after it's been fired unless you were already moving (also lag is a factor), the penalty for being hit is pretty severe, and the duration means it's easy to get chained. Teamwork doesn't even help because once you're being pulled, it won't instantly end if they die (also, it's possible to play the game solo). All you can do is constantly run whenever there's a mere chance one is around. I'm not even sure if they fit the overall Grineer theme. How do Scorpions do everything wrong that Shockwave Moa do right?

[MJ12]

This is a fairly accurate summation of all the actual problems with the game so far, which means you should expect the normal crowd of spergelords to crowd in defending every decision DE makes (especially the bad ones).

 

Mastery is an awful mechanic right now, it really shouldn't be any sort of content wall. Forma should never have existed in the first place, the prices only make sense if your disposable income is absurd to the point where your idea of 'cheap entertainment' involves caviar and champagne, and stunlock is never fun and the Scorpions being hotfixed has only made them somewhat less unfun, not actually fun.

 

I hope more people agree with the OP for providing well-thought out, constructive criticism.

[MASKSMITH]

After reading some responses I'm glad to see most people seem to agree  The only issue of any contention seems to be the Scorpions, and while I find them irritating and un-fun to fight, I can see how they could be considered to enhance the co-op mechanic. The main issue is they don't come in very limited groups like say the tasers of payday or special infected of L4D; they can spawn en masse and because of this they can completely stunlock a player without giving them any chance to respond, and other players are not always near or aware of the predicament due to voice chat being rare and there being no kind of alert to bring other players to an incapacitated but not dead player.

 

I'd suggest making players completely immune to stun for 1-2 seconds after having been stunned; while I think stun is a bad mechanic in general, if it is to be kept, at least prevent it from completely locking players up until they die.