Most Useful Frames I Found.

[Bakim0n0]

This is why you need a reach mod maximized to fully get the juice out of Zorens.

Reach was not available earlier, now it is, and it makes zorens much better then before.

Zorans innate high crit and crit multipler makes its charge and normal attacks normalize in damage in the long run, and then you have a much faster hitting weapon and a faster charging weapon at your disposal.

Also, Zorens badly need great mods before truly shining. Every weapon is great with good mods. Some benefit more then others, and I feel that Zorens with good mods truly get to be very powerful.

Vs grinera and Corpus they lack a little, you need a heavily upgraded AP mod, and obviously electricity.

I take out molten impact vs Grinear and Corpus and switch in electricity, when fighting grinear and corpus, and place back molten impact vs infested, taking out the electricity mods.

AP always stays.

I also use preassure point as I have a maxed out fury for attack speed. But its a matter of preference. Preassure points does not add to charge attacks so if you mod for charge attack damage and charge speed, you could take it out.

I use charge attack damage however, but keep PP, since I would only need charge attacks vs ancients, in infested missions.

A normal attack or two will bring down any normal infested minion, even with zoren.

Since you run and swing everything in your path goes down, without invisibility. Use invisibility and you will get anything on a one hit from zoren. And you use charge attacks on ancients. I dont charge attack normal mobs as they go down faster without charge, even though zoren got some very fast charge attacks, and modded, its stupid fast. Thats infestation.

For none infested defence missions and you want to swing zorens, you should focus on charge speed and charge damage mods, take out PP, add AP, Electricity and Reach.

 

For zoren to be effective you must have Reach. You can do a jump attack and hit targets 5-8 meters away with zoren and a maxed out reach.

It surprised me how effective they became.

 

If you lack an AP mod but have ether blades, then always use ether vs grinear and corpus. The AP what makes weapons such as Zoren, Gram, Scindo so powerful also vs grinear and corpus

Furax is another very strong, fast melee weapon vs armored targets. Not to be overlooked obviously.

You aren't going to have 5-8 meters on jump attacks with zorans, more like 3-4 even with reach; and even once you account for the crit rate and crit chance you're still seeing lower damage than the heavies / DHS (2x on charge crits vs 1.5x at a base of 55 isn't going to account for the gap of having 1/4th the charge damage of heavies and 1/3rd that of the DHS)

Ether Blades ignore armor, but like I said that's totally moot unless you are spamming normal attacks which is *always* far lower dps than charge builds on charge weapons.

Like I've said, repeatedly now, you're entitled to your opinions but you are making assertions about performance without even taking any math into account and stating your opinions as if they are fact.

[Latronico]

I don't understand who you're trying to convince ? I've never choose a frame because "omg it's so powerfull", but because it look great or its gameplay was interesting.

I don't think you will convince / show somebody you're right by saying things like "They're not required"

 

True. I do it too.

BUT, a feedback / help from experienced players to newbies is always helpfull. It doesn't mean 'oh wow Loki is great now I buy it', but 'oh, damn, my Warframe has this and this weakness, what can I do?'.

That's the point, I think. For example, I like Frost, Ash, Excalibur, Rhino. Are they strong? Maybe, but I like them and want to work on them.

[krisp]

You forget zorens 30% crit rate and triple damage on crits, double on charge crits. It evens out damage wise over gram.

Also, you need reach with zoren big time, which I have ofc. And yes its a % amount which is why Zoren with attack speed, or charge speed and charge damage, gets the job done extremly well and better then Gram. Not by miles but imo better.

Gram in many cases will over kill anything but ancients. If you lack attack speed, charge speed, charge damage mods, then Gram will beat Scindo.

But Scindo becomes more then fast enough with these mods attacked, and as such simply become better, as you dont need to attack faster in most cases.

Its a matter of taste and preferance here.

 

I still think Zorens beat Gram, but requires more mods to be better, even if both have same mods. With mediocre mods and no fury etc, Zorens will not outperform Gram. Agreed on this.

But 50% attack speed on Zorens give them 3.0 attack speed, and again, the crit consistency of Zorens needs to be taken into consideration as its innate crit is simply so high that it is frequent enough to add to the base damage.

If zorens had a 10% crit, they would not be as good as they are, but now thats not the case.

You seem to think mods affect weapons differently. They affect all weapons the same. The increase in dps is the exact same with the exception of Reach, which doesn't factor in DPS but works better on weapons with better innate range.

 

As for the Zorens crit: 25% chance for x3 is a 50% dps increase over time, which admittedly is about 10% more dps than the Gram (assuming the Zorens base speed is twice that of Gram, and assuming the Gram doesn't crit). But since you're "one-shotting while invis", then the crit shouldn't matter anyway except for ancients, for which you use charged attacks. If you want the math I can post it, but even with crits, the Gram comes up ahead by about 20 damage per second (no mods). This difference is of course affected by mods and will be much larger once fully modded.

Edited June 4, 2013 by krisp

[Keimdhall]

Personally. I don't like Loki AT ALL. I had one for quite some time, and I honestly gave it my best shot. But it really did not fit my playstyle at all. Decoy and Invisibility were the only skills I used, because I never found a use for the other two. 

 

As for Ember. It is a very good frame. It fits my playstyle perfectly. Fireball is a great single or tight cluster group attack. Overheat I haven't used much, since I play at range most of the time, because I'm not a melee style person. 

 

Trinity I have not played, so I have no opinion.

 

Excalibur definitely is a good frame. I used it for quite some time. 

 

But the fact of the matter is, to rule out all the other frames because they lack bonuses to melee damage and blah blah blah is over-kill. The frames are designed to fit different playstyles. Rhino when played well in combination with my ember is crazy. Throw in a trinity, and it's god-like, because nothing can survive the combined assault of a World on Fire, and whatever Rhino's AoE smash is (I've never played it.) unless it's a boss. Put a trinity in the mix, and you have infinite energy to keep spamming your huge abilities.

 

Frost is excellent in defense, because of reason's that have already been mentioned by others, mainly that you need something to protect that doesn't necessarily just take aggro. 

 

Again, it all comes down to your playstyle. I can't stand Loki, or Ash. Ember is a blast (pun intended), But when you have a variety of frames in a mission, and you know how each other plays, and you're working together, combinations are god-like. It doesn't matter who's using what. If comes down to your individual personality and how your style fits. I don't go into melee range unless I'm gonna run in with World on Fire active, or if I'm stealthing and I want to sneak kill an enemy that's 3 inches from my face.

 

And besides.....why spend the money to buy the frames when you can farm them out for free? The only things I could see buying with platinum would be a couple of the harder weapons to find, but other than that, there's very little that money SHOULD be spent on, if at all. It's a fantastic game, and I'm all for supporting the developers by buying platinum. But in reality, they made the game so that people like me, who don't have all the money to spend on games could get everything in the game (outside of a couple of things in the market, of course) if you were willing to put in the work.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

-snip-

Defense missions. Sometimes mods far away won't shoot the decoy. Snowglobe is useful despite what you say, it's far from useless. Loki might be good, but I don't think he's THE BEST.

 

Yeah Iron skin nerf to Rhino was kind of needed but unf his other abilities are just not good at all.

Toxic ancients you use ranged on, only Rhino earlier could go in and be completely immune to everything from them.

I played him during his glory days and he was rather op.

 

Shuriken on Ashe is very strong. And easy to get maxed out.

 

Trinity is boring as hell, but she is never the less rather over powered. Her skills in my opinion is not correctly balanced.

 

I do believe Ashe and Lokis invisibility does give same damage bonus, Loki being able to use it more often though, due to a higher energy pool and invisibility lasting 10 seconds.

It costs twice as much, but again, Loki have a much higher energy pool making it possible for him to be permanently invisible during a wave of infested, something ashe can not afford to be in most cases.

Vs infested Lokis #4 ability also does damage.

Ashe can take a better beating due to his higher hp, shield and innate armor.

Ashe does not have Decoy however which is a great group utility skill, especially in infested missions.

Its an underused skill, which shows just here, as many dont seem to understand just how good it actually is. And again, especially vs infested.

As grinear and Corpus keep distance, Decoy in general is far from as good.

Yeah Iron skin nerf to Rhino was kind of needed but unf his other abilities are just not good at all.

No. Just no. Loki, ash, saryn, and trinity all have atleast one form of invul and RHINO needed a nerf? Really? Really?

 

Vs infested Lokis #4 ability also does damage.

Errr, not really. Compared to vauban's, ember's, or saryn's i.e. it's not as good.

Edited June 4, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

I´m not sure,if it is bug,but I noticed,when I soloed that most enemies completely ignored Decoy and rushed straight to the pod.

I really hope it's a bug.

A rank 10 player that I warframe with every day was talking about this just yesterday. He even went so far as to show me on Xini. The infested were ignoring the decoy and just rushing the pod. I really do hope it's a bug because the decoy ability is one of Loki's most competitive abilities for endless defense.

[blaes]

lol zorens

 

 

(Gotta love muh Plasma Sword)

 

 

Definitely noticing this.

mod loadout on the weapon please?

[BinoAl]

I personally love frost for infested defense. It's more for the flexibility of Ice Wave vs Avalanche, as both are incredibly useful in certain circumstances. I hardly touch snow globe or freeze.

Also, the whole statement on how the only necessary frames are Ember, Trinity, and Loki... Nope. Saryn is a much better damage dealer than Ember, Trinity's healing is useless for a decent team and her tanking isn't helpful in endless defense, other than taking out high level bosses, and Loki, while his invisibility + melee is pretty powerful, just can't deal as much damage as other frames. The best I've done in defense (Which was infested on Pluto/Eris mainly) was when we had Nyx and Saryn. Nyx is a necessity for high level defense

[Sixty5]

Gram is great for many frames.

For Loki you want to maximize your damage potential during invisibility.

And here Gram does not even come close to Dual Zoren.

You will have done 3 charged attacks with Dual zoren while you are doing 1 with Gram, even with Grams fast charged attacks.

And you will have hit approx 5-7 normal attacks with dual zoren while you swing once.

And given the fact that 2 hits from dual zoren is same or more then 1 hit from gram, its easy to do the math.

Do not forget 30% innate crit rate on Dual Zoren and triple damage on crits, double on charge crits.

Take into account invisibility 150% damage on normal attacks and 200% on charge attacks.

And no sir, if you are not using Dual Zoren on Loki you are doing it wrong.

 

Gram or any other melee weapon is great and on any other frame.

But to maximize damage on loki during invisibility, you want fast hitting, fast charging weapons.

And Gram is definately NOT one of those.

 

PS: I use a maxed out Reach as well with the zorens. 60% reach on dual zorens...Gram just can not beat this.

 

Agreed, but the Gram has higher damage per strike, meaning that slide melee is more viable as a form of aoe damage. Also the Gram has a massive AOE knockdoown on jump attack, which is very useful.

 

Anyways, I do just fine with just my Gram, and in all honesty I get the same sort of kill numbers on Kappa (~220) whether I play SQ Banshee or Gram Loki. 

[TarkoRehin]

I am sure you have been told this several times, but I didn't bother reading every single reply on this thread.

Snow Globe is a very useful ability when playing defence missions with Corpus or Grineer, one could argue that this ability is essential to clear some of the higher waves. It would be foolish to dismiss the potency of this ability.

Vauban is a frame that has a mayor role in defence related missions when fighting both Corpus and Infest, his Tesla grenades can wipe out most, if not all incoming Corpus if they are placed in the right locations. His Bastille is essentially the Snow Globe equivalent when fighting Infested.

Even though you spoke somewhat highly of Ember, I still believe you underestimated some of her capabilites, Ember can absolutely obliterate dozens of infested in the matter of seconds (up to level 40+). I do not believe that Loki can come anywhere close as to matching her killing speed versus Infested.

Banshee and Saryns ultimates and a potent tool against most enemies, and Banshee's Sonar is a valuable asset to most teams.

Although some of the frames in the game may be somewhat underwhelming if not played in a very particular way, most of them fill some kind of niche, and may appeal to players of prefer a specific playstyle.

When it comes to Zorens I do not hold the necessary information to determine how potent other weapons are versus it, this is because of the lacking information about crit chances for other weapons.

Most of the secondary weapons have a lot of potency, especially all the dual pistols, and the throwing knives.

For a primary weapon the Braton is the best rifle for overall use, Latron can defeat it at longer distances, while Gorgon can defeat it at closer distances.

I agree that Hek & Strun are probably some of the most damaging weapons in the game, but ever since the tweak to shotguns, they will be outperformed by other weapons at longer distances.

The sniper style weapons have some potency, but mostly lose out because of long downtime, bad ammo effiency and too high damage, which against a enemy that dies in one hit anyways is not very useful.

As always, an opinion is an opinion, just be careful not to speak of your opinion in a way that it may be taken as a fact.

I did enjoy the read though, and it did raise a few interesting points that I will take into consideration when playing.

Edited June 5, 2013 by TarkoRehin

[TheJiggliestPoo]

Loki gets 150% damage on normal attacks, 200% on charged attacks during invisiblity.

Ashe recieve 50% damage on normal attacks and 100% damage on Charged attacks.

 

No they do not get the same bonus while invisible.

Lokis invisible lasts longer and despite the sentinel still showing does not affect him and he is still not seen, not attacked.

 

Even if they recieved similar, the fact is that Ashe takes 1 second casting animation and it lasts much shorter.

Lokis invisibility is better then Ashes.

 

Ashe Shurikens are great vs infested, no doubt. He runs fast. And is a great frame.

But for raw damage output Loki still wins. 10 second lasting invisibility where he with a 100% only, flow mod, will sit at more then 450 energy, means he can simply use it more then Ashe.

 

I know Ashe is suppose to be the king of melee and yaddi yadda. he costs 375 platinum compared to Lokis 75 and being a starter frame.

But the fact is that Loki is a better melee damage dealer then Ashe, hands down.

Ashe got more HP and more Armor, Loki does more damage and have better skills.

 

Actually with a max flow + streamline mod, Ash can use his invisibility 14.29 times (rounded up to 21 energy) while Loki can use his 11.54 times. When accounting for total time invisible Loki can stay in it longer however it should be important to note that since both do the same extra % damage (I tested this) when invisible and the fact that mobs are easy to kill, there will be extra time spent in invisibility for Loki after already killing all the mobs leading to inefficiency unless against the toughest of all levels. Loki makes up the lack of damage easily with his utility while Ash's damage skills really just isn't on par with other frames, where his only niche is the invisibility mele. So I believe Ash could use some buffs/changes to his skills

[1un4cy]

Personally I love my Trinity, I can slack off because I'm trinity and pop Blessing any time someone's health begins to drop, and the ability to tank any boss more effectively than any other warframe simply by spamming Energy Vampire and Link with charged melee attacks, provided you can keep all the aggro.

[zorinho20]

I really hope it's a bug.

A rank 10 player that I warframe with every day was talking about this just yesterday. He even went so far as to show me on Xini. The infested were ignoring the decoy and just rushing the pod. I really do hope it's a bug because the decoy ability is one of Loki's most competitive abilities for endless defense.

Yes,it happened to me on Xini,too.

[Promite]

Frost is simply bad,

 

[PetRockIV]

can you explain to me why scindo is better than gram? I always thought gram and scindo were identical but the gram had a faster charge speed?

[Magneta]

-Logged onto the game to repolarize and level my Loki

-New Hotfix update!

-"Fixed issues with Decoy’s ability to distract enemies. The current design is that the AI will give up trying to kill a decoy they cannot reach or damage."

-Sadface

-Back to Vauban!

[wallblinker]

You mean for the Corpus missions with MOAs.

 

Snowglove is good there, and only there, and they most of the time can shoot through Snowglobes.

 

For rezzing: most carry a shade anyway, and you will go stealth when rezzing. Or loki without shade can just go invisible and rez.

Snowglobe is overated.

Im not saying its not good, but its the only thing this frame brings to a defence mission.

 

Moa firing on you? Pop a decoy instead, they got range, you can throw it quite far away.

Just cause you play frost, I undestand you want to be valuable. But the truth is, all you need as a base in this game is  Trinity and Loki.

I used to run with Rhino and a heap of other frames.

Its just funny to see that a starter frame is among the most powerful, and Trinity well she is just god like. The combination is great.

 

Place a Link on a MOA or #4 from Trinity if you have problems, so no, snow globe is not needed.

u might be missing a point in any rpg stat based game

tanks are always needed

games with no need for tanks are games so easy any1 can do it alone

i have frost and loki

i dont do melee since max dps in a shooter means nothink to me

if defence missions had a boss every 20 levels immune to control stuns etc with some sort of good dmg on his side at least downing ur shield and some hp x atack u would cry to have a meatshield to cover ur loki squishy behind and a healer ofc

right now u can nuke anything while been invis and thats like calling for nerfs

this game just need gear and something damaging and u are good to go

the frame skills are for fun and looks

any random defence without a tight team needs a frost to get going

if u say otherwise its because u are too geared for what you do

try doing some solo loki defences and when u get past wave 10 at any pluto defence map come back and repeat that frost glove is useless

[sleepy]

So , OP, are you by any chance the guy i revived like 10 times a few days ago when he was trying to melee lvl 100 toxics ? Loki best frame ? Melee best weapons ? What have you been smoking ?