Limbo, The Other Side Of The Coin.

[(PSN)LoneWolf_001]

He's ineffectual in virtually every role except revive-bot-sniper. He's just not a teamplayer outside of that. Yes, I know what he does in detail. He just falls far short of expectations.

[(XBOX)A L C H E lVl Y]

The problem with this is that it requires you to keep *two* duration-based abilities constantly up, while constantly casting a third on things you want to attack. Yes, it's powerful, possibly rightfully so, but it gets to be such a pain since if any one of these things fails, you could do either regular or NO damage until you get yourself tooled up again.

 

I, honestly, would rather have Limbo's damage boost in the Rift be a passive of some description, if still moddable. Just have him naturally deal more damage while in the Rift, no ability required. This would free up Rift Surge to do something else, possibly what I thought it was when I first heard the ability: deal damage to all enemies in the Rift. Or something else. I'm not picky.

 

Then there's the idea of combining his 1 and 2 a-la Ivara's 1, opening up a slot for something completely new as well.

 

I *like* Limbo. The concept is great, but so many of his abilities are wasted on getting things into and out of the rift that he's left with no room to do neat things with the concept.

 

i agree with you, when i read about limbo i spent all my time grinding for the pieces and such and not that i regret decision to do so i was some what disappointed after playing him. i now use limbo as a support reviver in gold gore farming missions lol.

[(PSN)CrazyWill718]

I feel like the only thing that could definitely be changed is how Limbo is still affected by Eximus auras in the rift

[Aurruxco]

I feel like the only thing that could definitely be changed is how Limbo is still affected by Eximus auras in the rift

he's no longer affected by eximus auras in the rift...

[(PSN)CrazyWill718]

he's no longer affected by eximus auras in the rift...

is that update only on pc right now because I don't think it's on console

[MokutoBunshi]

he's no longer affected by eximus auras in the rift...

>:) Excellent...

 

 

]\'[

[MokutoBunshi]

  It's very hard to nail down what are Limbo's "uses", because Limbo's skillset doesn't seem to really fit in the massive "pick a role in the team" frame tactic. He greatly conflicts with Frost, the "must have" defense frame before Limbo's release, yet he has great teamplay with a Loki or Trinity, no matter when it comes to immortal decoys or hacking missions or immortal EV targets + WoL combo (yet no one seems to notice these potentials). He's more "utility" than other frames, with all his four abilities focusing on the "rift plane" gimmick DE managed to pull off. You could say that he's born in an accident, but this synergy greatly aids me in the majority of my missions that I've previously considered hard to complete with my Excalibur, like defense missions. Whether you liked him or not, this rift mechanism of separating friends and foes alike has certainly caught my attention and my devotion for this frame. I use him in sorties, because I can't really think of a single frame that can get me past a sortie 3 survival, with control over when I'm exposed to damage and when I'm not, when I deal a finisher or not, and when I need to protect my fragile kubrow (I'm working on leveling the mods for now) or not. You can play around with the rift mechanics and find out that the stupid operative that runs around in sorties can be an excellent decoy with banish, or time exactly when to banish a target to guarantee a ground finisher because heavy gunners can break the knockdown with the ground slam animation. With the rift mechanism, I've found my passion while I first played this game with my Excalibur, discovering when should I hide behind a barrier, when to run through enemies without a care, the arc I need to calculate before landing my arrow on the grineer hellion, and the synergy of super jump + javelin. It's basically introducing me to a whole new playstyle, something I've never really thought of trying after obtaining Valkyr and building her for Hysteria only (because every mission is boring after that).

  My hopes for "no rework" has pretty much died after the recent Devstream. At this point, I don't care about whether Limbo needs a rework, or what he gets after the rework. All I know is that it reintroduced me to Warframe at a different angle, and I will forever remember the joy he brought me, once again.

 

 

I'll get back to this later I hope TT^TT

 

]\'[

[Neogeo]

  It's very hard to nail down what are Limbo's "uses", because Limbo's skillset doesn't seem to really fit in the massive "pick a role in the team" frame tactic. He greatly conflicts with Frost, the "must have" defense frame before Limbo's release, yet he has great teamplay with a Loki or Trinity, no matter when it comes to immortal decoys or hacking missions or immortal EV targets + WoL combo (yet no one seems to notice these potentials). He's more "utility" than other frames, with all his four abilities focusing on the "rift plane" gimmick DE managed to pull off. You could say that he's born in an accident, but this synergy greatly aids me in the majority of my missions that I've previously considered hard to complete with my Excalibur, like defense missions. Whether you liked him or not, this rift mechanism of separating friends and foes alike has certainly caught my attention and my devotion for this frame. I use him in sorties, because I can't really think of a single frame that can get me past a sortie 3 survival, with control over when I'm exposed to damage and when I'm not, when I deal a finisher or not, and when I need to protect my fragile kubrow (I'm working on leveling the mods for now) or not. You can play around with the rift mechanics and find out that the stupid operative that runs around in sorties can be an excellent decoy with banish, or time exactly when to banish a target to guarantee a ground finisher because heavy gunners can break the knockdown with the ground slam animation. With the rift mechanism, I've found my passion while I first played this game with my Excalibur, discovering when should I hide behind a barrier, when to run through enemies without a care, the arc I need to calculate before landing my arrow on the grineer hellion, and the synergy of super jump + javelin. It's basically introducing me to a whole new playstyle, something I've never really thought of trying after obtaining Valkyr and building her for Hysteria only (because every mission is boring after that).

  My hopes for "no rework" has pretty much died after the recent Devstream. At this point, I don't care about whether Limbo needs a rework, or what he gets after the rework. All I know is that it reintroduced me to Warframe at a different angle, and I will forever remember the joy he brought me, once again.

As someone who owned and max all frame, I would not consider using LImbo in sorties 3 other than the new defense hostage mission. He is just too fragile even with 4 defensive mod when he step out of his rift plane. I'd redirection, vitality, quick thinking and prime flow on him, all max up. Yet he will fall in a split second if I got caught in a bad situation like Nullifier bubble. I use Valkyr for sorties survival other than corpus.  I use frost for mobile defense and excavation sorties mission. I use Loki for Spy and Corpus survival sorties. All of above are more efficient than Limbo ever will be, and they are also far easier to use. Why would I want to handicap myself with all kind of Limbo shortage? Oh, not being able to pickup item inside a rift plane is just the last straw for me. I could understand it might be slightly OP with rift walk, but why on earth you limit player from picking up item inside a cataclysm? It's not like it will follow me around. I know you can remove cataclysm temporary to pickup item but then you will expose the very target you are protecting. You don't see frost had to disable his globe just to pickup item, do you?

 

If I'm allow to change one thing with Limbo, I would change his 4 to also execute an AOE knockdown or stun. He need that breathing space especially consider the long arse Catalysm casting animation. 

Edited January 27, 2016 by Neogeo

[MokutoBunshi]

As someone who owned and max all frame, I would not consider using LImbo in sorties 3 other than the new defense hostage mission. He is just too fragile even with 4 defensive mod when he step out of his rift plane. I'd redirection, vitality, quick thinking and prime flow on him, all max up. Yet he will fall in a split second if I got caught in a bad situation like Nullifier bubble. I use Valkyr for sorties survival other than corpus.  I use frost for mobile defense and excavation sorties mission. I use Loki for Spy and Corpus survival sorties. All of above are more efficient than Limbo ever will be, and they are also far easier to use. Why would I want to handicap myself with all kind of Limbo shortage? Oh, not being able to pickup item inside a rift plane is just the last straw for me. I could understand it might be slightly OP with rift walk, but why on earth you limit player from picking up item inside a cataclysm? It's not like it will follow me around. I know you can remove cataclysm temporary to pickup item but then you will expose the very target you are protecting. You don't see frost had to disable his globe just to pickup item, do you?

 

If I'm allow to change one thing with Limbo, I would change his 4 to also execute an AOE knockdown or stun. He need that breathing space especially consider the long arse Catalysm casting animation. 

I COMPLETELY agree with what you believe to be Limbo's problems and your rework suggestions...

 

Now how would YOU use him in a mission? In any mission?

 

I listed a few things as an example a few pages back... and this: "vitality, quick thinking and prime flow on him, all max up" does not work on limbo, your right.

 

But that is the point, what ELSE can he do? He has invincibility, how can we use that?

 

]\'[

[achromos]

I COMPLETELY agree with what you believe to be Limbo's problems and your rework suggestions...

 

Now how would YOU use him in a mission? In any mission?

 

I listed a few things as an example a few pages back... and this: "vitality, quick thinking and prime flow on him, all max up" does not work on limbo, your right.

 

But that is the point, what ELSE can he do? He has invincibility, how can we use that?

 

]\'[

 

In harder missions Damage Denial is the name of the game, with limbo.  You choose who you fight, you stay in the rift plane a majority of the time and take out the VIP targets (Heavy Gunners, ect) or throw down a Cataclysm into a pile of enemies from afar and mow them down quickly and then remove the cataclysm to prevent future issues.  It's all about dragging targets into the void one by one (trying to make sure you target the harder hitting ones first especially in sorties) or throwing down a cataclysm while maintaining rift surge and just ruining your enemies day.

 

Granted, the main issue here is if you are working with a team they may get frusterated that you just blocked them from getting any kills, yea this is a co-op game but that's a popular argument. 

 

Limbo is a tried and true solo frame that can stand up on his own and if you are smart with him, you can go well into S3 with no issues.  However, your main source of damage will be your gun.  Your best go-to mods will be both Natural Talent and Speed Drift and as always max your efficiency (Yes, speed drift... it adds a minor speed increase to your casting speed in addition to NT and when you are banishing left and right it shaves off much more time in the long run) You will want a ton of duration while also keeping a sizeable range without reducing power strength, standard "You must balance all of these stats now." deal.

 

Will I say Limbo doesn't need a buff?  A bit of a rework?  No.  He needs to be able to play nice with a team, longterm.  He currently cannot do that as his powers get in the way, from picking up drops, to wanting to use your guns and trying to snipe long range targets he hinders his team almost as much as he hinders his enemies unless his powers are used properly and even then... if you want to protect the pod?  Frost.  I've taken to using Limbo offensively, as I've stated.  Being in rift walker, and slamming down a high range cataclysm onto enemies and firing into that bubble and snatching it away.  It's fun to have control like that, but... eh.

[Neogeo]

I COMPLETELY agree with what you believe to be Limbo's problems and your rework suggestions...

 

Now how would YOU use him in a mission? In any mission?

 

I listed a few things as an example a few pages back... and this: "vitality, quick thinking and prime flow on him, all max up" does not work on limbo, your right.

 

But that is the point, what ELSE can he do? He has invincibility, how can we use that?

 

]\'[

I had already mention the one improvement Limbo need, that's AOE knockdown/stun from Cataclysm. In harder mission like Sorties, casting cataclysm on yourself is equal to suicide, he need that brief CC to survive. Unfortunately, DE only give CC to his single target ability. In a game where you deal with horde all the time, this is unacceptable. I agree Limbo can be the best duelist of all frame, but you are not dealing with enemy one at a time. Granted you can do that, but it will be painfully slow to progress. 

[Guest]

No worries, tl;dr included.

 

In harder missions Damage Denial is the name of the game, with limbo.  You choose who you fight, you stay in the rift plane a majority of the time and take out the VIP targets (Heavy Gunners, ect) or throw down a Cataclysm into a pile of enemies from afar and mow them down quickly and then remove the cataclysm to prevent future issues.  It's all about dragging targets into the void one by one (trying to make sure you target the harder hitting ones first especially in sorties) or throwing down a cataclysm while maintaining rift surge and just ruining your enemies day.

Thank you so much. You deserve a +1.

 

Granted, the main issue here is if you are working with a team they may get frusterated that you just blocked them from getting any kills, yea this is a co-op game but that's a popular argument. 

I'm kinda conflicted with one party telling me "kill stealing is wrong" and one party telling me "there's no such thing in Warframe, you still get affinity". But still I like random players doing the work for me while I reap the profits from their efforts for killing (no offense), however I get a bit pissed off when I need a quick heal with Life Strike because Vaykor Marelok takes a bit of time to charge up, just in case I'm careless enough to accidentally take a few bullets.

 

Limbo is a tried and true solo frame that can stand up on his own and if you are smart with him, you can go well into S3 with no issues.  However, your main source of damage will be your gun.  Your best go-to mods will be both Natural Talent and Speed Drift and as always max your efficiency (Yes, speed drift... it adds a minor speed increase to your casting speed in addition to NT and when you are banishing left and right it shaves off much more time in the long run) You will want a ton of duration while also keeping a sizeable range without reducing power strength, standard "You must balance all of these stats now." deal.

And your melee weapon, which can prove to be very useful with the knockdown from banish and the damage buff from rift surge.

 

Will I say Limbo doesn't need a buff?  A bit of a rework?  No.  He needs to be able to play nice with a team, longterm.  He currently cannot do that as his powers get in the way, from picking up drops, to wanting to use your guns and trying to snipe long range targets he hinders his team almost as much as he hinders his enemies unless his powers are used properly and even then... if you want to protect the pod?  Frost.  I've taken to using Limbo offensively, as I've stated.  Being in rift walker, and slamming down a high range cataclysm onto enemies and firing into that bubble and snatching it away.  It's fun to have control like that, but... eh.

Ehh I don't really like how Frost blocks my trajectory and they don't seem to be aware of the health of the globe, so I don't really like having Frosts in the way. Cataclysm can be either ranged (not recommended for survivability reasons) or used otherwise (smaller range = bigger chance of protecting the pod from more enemies). Ranged cataclysms can drag you down because Limbo loses the "damage denial" aspect and enemies do take cover, making them harder to target. Most players don't really give a care and simply went with the banish + rift surge + finisher tactic that can deal with enemies that are taking cover, by simply going around the cover. Would like the "more teamplay" buff though.

 

I had already mention the one improvement Limbo need, that's AOE knockdown/stun from Cataclysm. In harder mission like Sorties, casting cataclysm on yourself is equal to suicide, he need that brief CC to survive. Unfortunately, DE only give CC to his single target ability. In a game where you deal with horde all the time, this is unacceptable. I agree Limbo can be the best duelist of all frame, but you are not dealing with enemy one at a time. Granted you can do that, but it will be painfully slow to progress. 

Pickup and knockdown for 2-5 seconds would be cool, but it should be a non-spammable skill to avoid generic stun-bots. That should make Limbo more viable imo.

[Aurruxco]

is that update only on pc right now because I don't think it's on console

You guys are on 18.3 now.. i think its already implemented on consoles.

[MokutoBunshi]

tl;dr:

- Limbo has an incredible number of uses that have yet to be discovered, and that's a treat for me in the normally grindy Warframe.

- Limbo introduces me to different playstyles, and I grasped the feeling of being a rookie and having to learn everything from scratch once more, and I like it.

- Sure, there are a few tweaks handy for Limbo, which I myself, for one, approve of, but all I see are rework threads with drastic changes to his powers, ranging from portals to easy access nuking and even teleportation and switching in and out of the rift while doing so. I'm not really sure if this is going to work for me.

-Since DE's rework went so bad with Excalibur (2 of 4 abilities are unusable because they have an LoS limitation which kinda screws them over. LoS is known for being inaccurate even though the target is directly in the line of sight, and some frames like Loki might have issues with it when using switch teleport), I'm afraid that the Limbo after the rework would lack synergy and be another generic frame, like Mirage's blind bot or Trinity's "EV TRIN Y U NO EV I DON'T HAVE ENERGY" bot (Trinity players get booted by this a lot) or even Loki's disarm + radiation proc bot. Maybe the problem's with the word "rework" that freaks me out.

 

 I agree. I used to try to get others to apreciate limbo for the uniqness in what he COULD do as well. However, when I noticed so many people asking for reworks I decided to make a rework thread (or two) of my own to get my opinion in.

However, this is NOT a rework thread! This thread is, as you brushed on above, about what we CAN do with limbos CURRENT abilities! :)

 

So, Like I posted before:

 

 

Here is an example of what I mean:

 

#1 Limbo is an exceptionally niche frame but he is good a sabotage as he can run to the target in the rift, then further destroying while staying in the rift using cataclysm.

 

#2 Also, Limbo may not be able to use many weapons while in the rift (if any) but castana/talon type weapons can still trigger in the rift without causing him harm. This allows him to plant them at his feet and escape to the rift drawing in enemies and further destroying or at least knocking them down so that he has time to make use of rift surge and finisher damage to quickly end a high level situation.

 

#3 Another thing limbo is good at is using his energy as backup health using rage+quickthinking+energy siphon he can stay either in the rift of come out able to escape back even at very low health. This is especially useful in no-shield nightmare missions because he can act as a carry for the team when reviving especially when he uses (vasarin?) to revive faster. (He can even do most of the killing using his cataclysm if its against corpus.

 

And here is a secret one I will throw in because I wanna see more people testing him out:

 

#4 Limbo also has a complicated method to kill bosses using cataclysm that can (theoretically) one shot bosses and requires a team formation of mag, hydroid and trinity that I call the battery effect. All that is needed is to give your limbo rift torrent before a match. After that assemble a team and bring a good Damage weapon (like the opticore of a strong bow or shot gun or explosive etc...).

 

Once the mission starts, choose a spot on the boss level to open a cataclysm and instruct hydroid to collect enemies inside using mag to pull in the minions. Hydroid will gain enough energy from the cataclysm to stay as a pool, mag will not gain enough energy to keep pulling though.

Trinity provides the team with energy; she is needed to get max effect here (the cataclysm mostly protects mag). Mean while limbo agros the boss.

 

Once there are over..I dunno 100 or so enemies in the pool? bring the boss in that cataclysm. Then activate your Rift surge Torrent aim and FIRE!

 

This works on any boss at all so long as there are minions that can be sucked in the pool. It can be changed up a bit but this tends to work best.

 

Does the boss have multiple stages? No problem! Charge the battery and repeat!

 

Also, make sure to follow the proper procedure when disposing of batteries ;)

 

Once you kill the boss make sure trin is backing the team up and get ready to eliminate the enemies (If you have an AOE weapon just do the same thing you did to the boss).

 

 

This method has been tested and proved. But do you see what it does? It takes 3 warframes people say need work (mag, hydroid and limbo) adds what they ARE good at with a trin and you have a unique, elaborate, effective and fun way to do something that involves the whole team... Like taking down any boss.

 

And I got plenty more things I use limbo with as well. Thats the kind of constructive discussion I was hoping for here.

 

]\'[

 

 

Make sure to add your ideas!

 

]\'[

[MokutoBunshi]

P.S. I update the OP to include the post above ^^^ for anyone who wants a deeper understanding of what exactly this topic is.

 

]\'[

[CephalonHibiya]

 Well, this thread certainly developed in a short time.

 

However, this is NOT a rework thread! This thread is, as you brushed on above, about what we CAN do with limbos CURRENT abilities! :)

 

I think I did a decent job of that several pages and days ago here, which I'll bring back in an attempt to stop the thread from apparently going off on a secant tangent.

 

A lot of really great (and strong) opinions about our resident top hat/witch's hat/bowler hat wearing favourite original-stance-owner. I'll just quickly outline why I personally like Limbo, it's great if you disagree and it's great if you agree.

 

A) Banish gives you the ability to negate an enemy completely for x-amount of time. Now, when I say "negate" I mean completely take them out of the game. Any passives, buffs, debuffs, etc that originate from that enemy cease applying to all enemies that do not share the same state as that enemy (for this example assume this is the only enemy phased). If the enemy was an Ancient Healer, this enemy no longer heals Infested enemies in proximity. If the enemy is an Arson/Caustic Eximus, its fire shockwave does not apply to Tenno not in the Rift. The list goes on, but, there's a secondary effect that's important to note here. A phased enemy cannot interact with objects that are unphased. This means that if the enemy is a Warden inside of a vault, they cannot set off the alarm (however much they may want to). Conversely, they also do not alert other enemies in the vault (such as a camera or a Regulator) if they cross their line of sight while phased.

 

B) Banish's augment mod Haven heals allies for up to 25% of their total health, while this may not seem like a large amount, it can mean all the difference between an ally escaping a swarm of enemies (especially with toxic or viral procs) and going down. Joke: it's also fun to troll your mates with it .

 

C) Rift Surge works wonderfully on enemies in combination with Banish or Cataclysm as either a one-shot on enemies at low levels, or to kill enemies at higher levels in the "bubble".

 

D) Cataclysm is great at closing the damage of enemies into a small or large area to deal with, does initial damage, continuous DoT, and damage on deactivation/termination.

 

Limbo is a bit of a touchy frame to play, especially for newer or less experienced Tenno. Added to the fact that Limbo players occassionally are on the receiving end of unwarranted hostility, Limbo is a very underused, underappreciated, and underdeveloped frame. Of course, dedicated Limbo players are usually brilliant with him and make great additions to any team; if you can find them.

 

Overall, Limbo is probably one of my prefered frames, maybe #4 on my list of most used frames.

 

Realistically, I think perhaps this thread should be considered for a lock.

 

Would anyone be opposed to the idea of Limbo gaining insane armor while using Rift Surge instead of attack power?

why not both? I mean he's the only one getting the buffs, that shouldn't make the skill OP

 

I hate to say, it, but, I actually would. The idea of Rift Surge is to augment Limbo's damage output by a ridiculously noticeable amount (current maximisation is at +568%). Say a Limbo uses a Synoid Simulor, or a grenade launcher like the Secura Penta, or even something as powerful as the Opticor, now input those damage numbers into the Rift Surge damage calculations. For argument's sake, lets say this is used in combination with Cataclysm, the amount of damage being done is exceedingly high, and you want to add "insane armour" to that? I'd say that's making Limbo slightly more OP than he already is.

 

He is the king of Corpus Spy missions

 

And don't you forget it ;)

 

I had already mention the one improvement Limbo need, that's AOE knockdown/stun from Cataclysm.

 

I actually severely disagree with that statement. Limbo is an incredibly agile and stylish frame that can be used with pinpoint accuracy. Do most players "best" use him, that's another debate. The single greatest benefit of Banish/Haven is the fact that you can single out an enemy to negate them from everyone in the prime phase or phase them into the Rift with you to damage them, and benefit from the knockdown. Personally, I'd leave Cataclysm exactly the way it is.

 

Limbos main appeal is his visuals. 

 

And on that note, make background colour white, font black...perfect! Limboified reply complete. xD

 

Edited: formatting and grammar.

Edited January 29, 2016 by xochild

[(PSN)Raptor_T9X]

Well since we are all currently riding this thread about Limbo, I might as well repost my thoughts.

 

I am also against the idea of having rift walk and banish being combined into one ability. In my opinion, a far better idea that someone else had posted on this forum is when you hold the banish button down, you start grabbing a whole bunch of enemies into the rift with an area of effect banish and with each successive enemy put into the rift with the aoe banish, the energy cost for banishing each enemy would reduced by 50% (e.g. grabbing three enemies with an aoe banish would cost you 25+13+7=45 energy compared to regularly banishing each of the three enemies individually for 75 energy). By doing this it would give Limbo a lot more flexibility in whenever situation he is in from targeting individual bombards/gunners to grabbing a whole group of grunt tier units with one swoop of an aoe banish.

 

Also, another personal favorite suggestion I heard on this forum in regards to rift surge is in addition to Limbo's extra damage output while in the rift is to double (perhaps triple?) the energy regeneration for any warframe that is in the rift. Might be too powerful but it would give great incentive for any player to stay in the rift and use their abilities more against those inside or outside the rift.

 

Finally with cataclysm my own personal suggestion is that since it does blast damage when activating and deactivating cataclysm, it should also automatically proc enemies with a blast effect as well upon activation and deactivation of cataclysm (i.e. enemies should be knocked down). This would give the much needed breathing room for Limbo along with any other teammates  to fight enemies inside cataclysm safely. In addition and I will bold this part for added emphasis, COULD WE PLEASE BE ABLE TO PICK UP ITEMS IN CATACLYSM FOR GOODNESS SAKES ALREADY!!! The amount of times teammates get pissed off for just popping cataclysm and not being able to pick up items is beyond real.

 

Overall though, DE needs to fix Limbo up A.S.A.P. Limbo is in dire need of attention because he is so anti-team friendly at the moment.

Edited January 29, 2016 by (PS4)Raptor_T9X

[Fuzzydragon]

Well all I know is of all the frames limbo is far and away my favorite to play because I feel free to manipulate almost any situation how I choose, and also rezzing the tank while standing in the midst of a lvl100+ beat down as if I were out for an afternoon stroll just gives me the girly giggles.

[Guest]

I hate to say, it, but, I actually would. The idea of Rift Surge is to augment Limbo's damage output by a ridiculously noticeable amount (current maximisation is at +568%). Say a Limbo uses a Synoid Simulor, or a grenade launcher like the Secura Penta, or even something as powerful as the Opticor, now input those damage numbers into the Rift Surge damage calculations. For argument's sake, lets say this is used in combination with Cataclysm, the amount of damage being done is exceedingly high, and you want to add "insane armour" to that? I'd say that's making Limbo slightly more OP than he already is.

 

I actually severely disagree with that statement. Limbo is an incredibly agile and stylish frame that can be used with pinpoint accuracy. Do most players "best" use him, that's another debate. The single greatest benefit of Banish/Haven is the fact that you can single out an enemy to negate them from everyone in the prime phase or phase them into the Rift with you to damage them, and benefit from the knockdown. Personally, I'd leave Cataclysm exactly the way it is.

   First, not all players like allying with Suda or Perrin (I'm a Steel + Veil myself), nor everyone likes using grenade launchers and big AoE weapons (I prefer bows). Sure, your argument with Rift surge is valid, but I won't be able to use it when I die instantly just because of Cataclysm's cast time. If I go for a ranged build for Rift Surge to be 100% benefitial, I would die almost instantly because it's way too big and I won't be able to find a safe place to cast the globe, especially considering how DE limits the ceiling height right now. A tiny bit of damage reduction won't hurt imo, or at least just make it scalable. Or maybe add a knockdown for us Limbos to even survive the cast time.

  Second, Limbo is nowhere near  "agile" with that 1.0 speed, and as you said, the knockdown is beneficial. I really don't want to die within 2 seconds of cast time animation and dying more frequently after that.

[Kefka]

Tentacles? Sure they wiggle them around a bit but still allow melee and explosives, whats still in the ideal, given that the probably best weapons are the tonkor and multiple melee weapons imo, depending on the frame you use. No idea whats the point of the puddle anyway. It does finisher damage but the ammount is just way too low...and its still covered by knockdowns on dive and release. Only enemys aggroing from afar are a threath. Thing is, he has something working for him, limbo doesn't. Limbo has a decent defensive ability that's missing any means of CC and acts as wall. He regenerates energy but is a hindance to weapons. Setting cataclysms forces others to step in and excludes them otherwise, defending with a cataclysm offers no cover for your team whatsoever as they are forced to step out...

Hydroid dying basicly comes down to bad choices. He can manage... the rift on the other side is messing with evryones rhytm and targets...limbo is the only one that benefits from the most part while actually interrupting evryone else..

BS, limbo does not exclude the team when using cataclysm nor does he force them to go into the cataclysm to fight, any good limbo will banish his squad members so they can take part in the tactical distance attack knowing that if they leave cataclysms AOE then they will no longer be able to his his team. your logic is flawed and only a person who is jaded by past experience with lame limbos would say such ignorant things.

Edited January 29, 2016 by HiroHideki

[CephalonHibiya]

   First, not all players like allying with Suda or Perrin (I'm a Steel + Veil myself), nor everyone likes using grenade launchers and big AoE weapons (I prefer bows). Sure, your argument with Rift surge is valid, but I won't be able to use it when I die instantly just because of Cataclysm's cast time. If I go for a ranged build for Rift Surge to be 100% benefitial, I would die almost instantly because it's way too big and I won't be able to find a safe place to cast the globe, especially considering how DE limits the ceiling height right now. A tiny bit of damage reduction won't hurt imo, or at least just make it scalable. Or maybe add a knockdown for us Limbos to even survive the cast time.

  Second, Limbo is nowhere near  "agile" with that 1.0 speed, and as you said, the knockdown is beneficial. I really don't want to die within 2 seconds of cast time animation and dying more frequently after that.

 

One can easily pick up and build a Simulor or Penta from Sanctuary and the Market at any time, I just gave the examples of those two weapons because it's what I myself use with him often. The point being, that Rift Surge likely would best benefit either from a single-fire high damage weapon like the Opticor (which doesn't rely on crits, status, etc) or from some kind of AoE weapon like the Penta or Simulor.

 

If you read my earlier post, you would've seen me mention his casting speed isn't as pronounced as most people seem to think. Any experienced player has should have good map awareness and situational placement, that should be a consequence of playing the game long enough. If a player is truly struggling to keep up with high level enemies, then I'd perhaps recommend Speed Drift as it increases both casting speed and sprint speed. In theory, one should mod any frame appropriately for the type of mission they're about to do. Strength is obviously not the most beneficial to a Spy mission with Limbo for example, when the duration of Rift Walk is <5 seconds and you need to fall through the multi-level laser Corpus vault. You'd want duration, range, and efficiency for a Spy mission.

 

I think a lot of players either don't know about Drift mods or just underestimate them, because they really can make all the difference in that Exilus slot on frames if you invest in unlocking them.

[Guest]

If you read my earlier post, you would've seen me mention his casting speed isn't as pronounced as most people seem to think. Any experienced player has should have good map awareness and situational placement, that should be a consequence of playing the game long enough.

Try placing a maxed Stretch + Overextended cataclysm for maximum rift surge bonus. You literally can't find a place far away enough from the cataclysm itself, and you get downed in seconds. This globe can literally cover an entire room as big as one from the void's survival map. Though you might be able to survive the cast time, there's no guarantees that you won't die inside cataclysm, regarding how fragile Limbo is while in it, and any other frame with basic survivability can outshine it by simply not dying. Like I said, the lack of cc in cataclysm limits the use and variety of builds. Also, a purely max stretch cataclysm can also cover a significant area that should be enough for enemies to gun Limbo down and take cover.

[MokutoBunshi]

"I think I did a decent job of that several pages and days ago here, which I'll bring back in an attempt to stop the thread from apparently going off on a secant tangent."

 

*whispers* notice me sin pi!

 

]\'[

[MokutoBunshi]

   First, not all players like allying with Suda or Perrin (I'm a Steel + Veil myself), nor everyone likes using grenade launchers and big AoE weapons (I prefer bows). Sure, your argument with Rift surge is valid, but I won't be able to use it when I die instantly just because of Cataclysm's cast time. If I go for a ranged build for Rift Surge to be 100% benefitial, I would die almost instantly because it's way too big and I won't be able to find a safe place to cast the globe, especially considering how DE limits the ceiling height right now. A tiny bit of damage reduction won't hurt imo, or at least just make it scalable. Or maybe add a knockdown for us Limbos to even survive the cast time.

  Second, Limbo is nowhere near  "agile" with that 1.0 speed, and as you said, the knockdown is beneficial. I really don't want to die within 2 seconds of cast time animation and dying more frequently after that.

Actually, and I don't mean to intrude on the conversation but he has 1.15 sprint speed.

 

]\'[

[MokutoBunshi]

Try placing a maxed Stretch + Overextended cataclysm for maximum rift surge bonus. You literally can't find a place far away enough from the cataclysm itself, and you get downed in seconds. This globe can literally cover an entire room as big as one from the void's survival map. Though you might be able to survive the cast time, there's no guarantees that you won't die inside cataclysm, regarding how fragile Limbo is while in it, and any other frame with basic survivability can outshine it by simply not dying. Like I said, the lack of cc in cataclysm limits the use and variety of builds. Also, a purely max stretch cataclysm can also cover a significant area that should be enough for enemies to gun Limbo down and take cover.

Two things I ALWAYS try to mod limbo for a quick-thinking and shield. Reason being, with a high enough shield I can safely fight for a short period and then retreat as my cataclysm collapses with little loss. Also IF I do wind up near to death that quickthinking plus that bit of energy regen from the rift can be a life saver so long as you just use your weapons in the cataclysm....not like you would need to use rift walk (unless your using that as you plan B) or banish (unless on allies firing in), so you are free to use rift surge and have at it.

 

Also, as mentioned above, explosives are better for limbo because he can quickly clear his cataclysm. HOWEVER, I also prefer bows. All I do is take out the heavy targets first in descending order of strength (which is where the strategy comes in).

 

The BEST scenarios I find for a plan the advanced are with many boss fights (also then you would want/NEED and big cataclysm) where all that damage from the minions comes in handy for a MASSIVE one shot at a temp weak spot. For examples please see post #87:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/590854-limbo-the-other-side-of-the-coin/page-5#entry6756990

 

Of course... the game itself could use a little bettering to turn this to an epic endeavor worthy of the feat as opposed to over glorified farming Grinding.

 

]\'[