Ignis Isn't A Flamethrower

[Webly]

Below is the pre-buff OP, is everyone happy with the new Ignis?  Do you think DE gave it enough care?  

 

I know I'm having more fun with it for sure.

 

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It might look like one, but all it is is a short range fire-bullet gun.

It is LITERALLY single target, with NO AoE or innate puncture.  Even with maxed out puncture, it still doesn't feel like a good flamethrower.

 

It's also not even that effective a weapon, especially when the Flux Rifle can do the same job better with its higher damage.

 

Flamethrowers in video games that feel good have
-Cone of fire that can hit multiple side by side

-Go through or envelop enemies so completely that it hits enemies behind it

-High damage

-Very short range

-High ammo consumption

 

Also I question whether the Ignis really has the 125 listed damage, even on Infested it barely does more damage than a similarly fitted Grakata.

 

 

 

 

K_Shiro https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/user/128241-k-shiro/

posted the following about improving the looks of the Ignis's flame.  

It seems to be a very frugal way to make the Ignis look better without making it more taxing to run.

 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/59613-ignis-isnt-a-flamethrower/page-4#entry933357

 I agree that the flamers animation, especially in a game like this, with graphics like this, doesn't really do justice to fire.

 

 

(Sorry for the very "functional" image.)

In point 1 you can see the current mechanics, sprites (planes always facing camera) are placed and if the character move to much, like firing while sliding, the spaces in between become too large to cover, destroying even the last bit of the illusion.

 

In point 2 you can see the possible solution as I think - extra sprites in between that are bound to the adjacent ones but resize, filling up the space. Their size change shall be linked to the center points of adjacent sprites (with a certain minimum so they never appear as "lines"), meaning if you see the "fire" from the front/behind, the size is on minimum, while from the size it can stretch as necessary. Of course this is not perfect, but better that "puffs" of fire.

 

If the don't want the "texture" to stretch, they can make the sprite to stretch hy creating an end and a starting part, with repeating middleparts and when the stretch reaches a certain amount, they put in a new part, like this:

 

(right lower corner shows what happens when certain stretch amount is reached)

Edited September 22, 2013 by Webly

[CosyPigeon]

I don't agree with the damage aspect, from what I've seen it does way more damage than the Grakata, that being said, I agree with everything else. the flame thrower should fire in a cone and be able to hit multiple clustered targets. You should also be able to use if for short term area denial by lighting sections of the floor on fire etc. 

[Iraetus]

It might look like one, but all it is is a short range fire-bullet gun.

 

Yep, I even think they just changed the muzzle flashes to the flame.

[ValhaHazred]

I think it should fire long streams of napalm that splash off enemies and walls rather than the gas blower style flame it has now.

[Grilleds]

I think it should fire long streams of napalm that splash off enemies and walls rather than the gas blower style flame it has now.

The devs would need to add liquid physics to the game to make that work, which is way too much effort for one weapon.

[mmSNAKE]

Most games never do flamethrowers justice. I've played so many damn shooters and not a single one strikes me out as "oh snap that was a hell of a flame thrower". They all tend to suck.

 

A good shotgun? Soldier of Fortune.

A good rocket launcher? Half-Life, Duke Nukem, Serious Sam, UT2k4

A good sniper? S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (gauss rifle), Quake 3 Arena, UT2k4

A good pistol? Half-Life, dat Colt Python

 

etc etc. I can never think of a game where I was, oh hey that was so good I actually wanted to use it. Even in far cry I couldn't be bothered.

[Webly]

Most games never do flamethrowers justice. I've played so many damn shooters and not a single one strikes me out as "oh snap that was a hell of a flame thrower". They all tend to suck.

 

The flamethrower in United Offensive felt pretty good, especially in the multiplayer  (but that is a completely different game).  The flamethrower in TF2 has great mechanics (not arguing about Pyro stuff).  That, with the range and ammo style of the Ignis, would be a much better weapon for this game.

[Grilleds]

The flamethrower in United Offensive felt pretty good, especially in the multiplayer  (but that is a completely different game).  The flamethrower in TF2 has great mechanics (not arguing about Pyro stuff).  That, with the range and ammo style of the Ignis, would be a much better weapon for this game.

I'm adding Alien Swarm to the list of shooters with good flamethrowers.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Supposedly the 125 damage is its base damage per second given that it is listed as a "continuous" weapon.

[MJ12]

Most games never do flamethrowers justice. I've played so many damn shooters and not a single one strikes me out as "oh snap that was a hell of a flame thrower". They all tend to suck.

 

A good shotgun? Soldier of Fortune.

A good rocket launcher? Half-Life, Duke Nukem, Serious Sam, UT2k4

A good sniper? S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (gauss rifle), Quake 3 Arena, UT2k4

A good pistol? Half-Life, dat Colt Python

 

etc etc. I can never think of a game where I was, oh hey that was so good I actually wanted to use it. Even in far cry I couldn't be bothered.

 

Wolfenstein, the latest one, had a fantastic flamethrower. Return to Castle Wolfenstein had one too.

 

Anyways the Ignis should have innate infinite puncture out to its max range and have an actual cone of damage. That'd make it... well, an interesting weapon and a powerful alternative to shotguns against Infested. Especially if you don't feel like aiming.

[Painmak3r]

The devs would need to add liquid physics to the game to make that work, which is way too much effort for one weapon.

A small tweak of current physx effects could easily make that work.

[mmSNAKE]

Wolfenstein, the latest one, had a fantastic flamethrower. Return to Castle Wolfenstein had one too.

 

Anyways the Ignis should have innate infinite puncture out to its max range and have an actual cone of damage. That'd make it... well, an interesting weapon and a powerful alternative to shotguns against Infested. Especially if you don't feel like aiming.

 

Didn't play the new Wolfenstein. Return to the Castle Wolfenstein, good God. That was damn long ago. The game overall was alright but it wasn't as memorable as some others. Probably why I can't remember much of it.

 

Regarding the TF2 flamethrower. Meh. The way the current status quo of Pyro is. Any Pyrocar player gets blown to bits. Anyone worth their salt will go for the absurd amount of crit conditions that Pyro has right now. Axtinguisher, Flare Gun, Reserve Shooter seem to be the main source of pain when playing the flame crazy hallucinating psycho.

 

-for some amusement

Edited June 6, 2013 by mmSNAKE

[Webly]

I think we all agree that the Ignis needs to shoot it a cone that hits everything within that cone.  I'll make some (very) rough drawings later on what it should look like.

 

Didn't play the new Wolfenstein. Return to the Castle Wolfenstein, good God. That was damn long ago. The game overall was alright but it wasn't as memorable as some others. Probably why I can't remember much of it.

 

Regarding the TF2 flamethrower. Meh. The way the current status quo of Pyro is. Any Pyrocar player gets blown to bits. Anyone worth their salt will go for the absurd amount of crit conditions that Pyro has right now. Axtinguisher, Flare Gun, Reserve Shooter seem to be the main source of pain when playing the flame crazy hallucinating psycho.

 

-for some amusement

RtCW is arguable the defining game for modern FPS, with Enemy Territory setting the standard for all FPS multiplayer after.  It's pretty damn memorable.  Also said I didn't want to argue over the Pyro in general, just that the mechanics of the flamethrower in that game are fairly good.

[SpringwoodSlasher]

Most games never do flamethrowers justice. I've played so many damn shooters and not a single one strikes me out as "oh snap that was a hell of a flame thrower". They all tend to suck.

 

A good shotgun? Soldier of Fortune.

A good rocket launcher? Half-Life, Duke Nukem, Serious Sam, UT2k4

A good sniper? S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (gauss rifle), Quake 3 Arena, UT2k4

A good pistol? Half-Life, dat Colt Python

 

etc etc. I can never think of a game where I was, oh hey that was so good I actually wanted to use it. Even in far cry I couldn't be bothered.

 

tf2 wants to have a word with you.

[mmSNAKE]

I think we all agree that the Ignis needs to shoot it a cone that hits everything within that cone.  I'll make some (very) rough drawings later on what it should look like.

 

RtCW is arguable the defining game for modern FPS, with Enemy Territory setting the standard for all FPS multiplayer after.  It's pretty damn memorable.  Also said I didn't want to argue over the Pyro in general, just that the mechanics of the flamethrower in that game are fairly good.

 

Stuff that I remember vividly from the past to what led me to play shooters:

 

Wolfenstein 3D

Doom

Duke Nukem 3d

Blood and Blood 2, less known but still

Quake and it's sequels

Unreal followed by Unreal Tournament and it's sequels (most notably UT2k4)

Half-Life and the entire slew of what that spawned (team fortress, Counter Strike etc)

 

RTCW was fun, true, but for me it was nowhere the titles listed. It is a bit obvious I tilt on the MP competitive side, especially UT but still.

 

Also TF2 is pretty awesome, but it still has nothing on UT2k4. A game when playing a legit MP game and hearing "holy ****", "Wicked Sick" or "Dark Horse" made you an absolute badass knowing you damn well deserved it.

[Naples]

Flamethrowers and shotguns in video games have much in common. Mostly that they aren't done justice.

A real shotgun isn't useless outside ten meters. The OLD Hek was a good example of how a proper shotgun should perform.

Similarly, flamethrowers are often shown with miniscule range and disappointing damage, when in reality they could reach 50 meters or more and absolutely devastate anything the fuel touched, as well as leaving burning fuel on the ground.

[mmSNAKE]

Flamethrowers and shotguns in video games have much in common. Mostly that they aren't done justice.

A real shotgun isn't useless outside ten meters. The OLD Hek was a good example of how a proper shotgun should perform.

Similarly, flamethrowers are often shown with miniscule range and disappointing damage, when in reality they could reach 50 meters or more and absolutely devastate anything the fuel touched, as well as leaving burning fuel on the ground.

I'll be the first in line to argue gun ballistics. However real world does not always translate well with game physics and balance.

 

Realism in general is not always fun. I can imagine shooting a shogun in a closed small room then having your game sound like a loud ringing noise for the next day. I live with permanent ringing in my ears. That is not fun.

Edited June 6, 2013 by mmSNAKE

[o_HiTMaN_o]

@ Webly

i agree with every word u said .. i got IGNIS .. it doesnt work as intended

when i built it .. i was so happy but now .. kinda dissapointed .. they should rework/fix it .. just lets HOPE !

[X3Evanescence]

Hope then....

[InsomniacOvrLrd]

I'll make this hope louder. There's TONS of stuff in this game that needs reworking, and before i see more crap pushed out intot he marketplace, i want to see the stuff that is already there balanced to be worth peoples' time.

[Naples]

I'll be the first in line to argue gun ballistics. However real world does not always translate well with game physics and balance.

 

Realism in general is not always fun. I can imagine shooting a shogun in a closed small room then having your game sound like a loud ringing noise for the next day. I live with permanent ringing in my ears. That is not fun.

Learn2earprotection. I'm sure that's built into space ninja suits. Although once I was forced to fire indoors without ear pro and it kinda hurt for like a minute.

[UncommonUnicorn]

I'll be the first in line to argue gun ballistics. However real world does not always translate well with game physics and balance.

 

Realism in general is not always fun. I can imagine shooting a shogun in a closed small room then having your game sound like a loud ringing noise for the next day. I live with permanent ringing in my ears. That is not fun.

 

Want a game with realistic bullet physics?

Try S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or maybe ArmA (not sure about ArmA).

 

Also, aren't the research weapons sort-of placeholders in some cases?

I mean, they're pretty much still alpha...

[Lykoloo]

Personally, I think that it just needs innate puncture.Mechanic wise, I like it being a classic gas flamethrower, not a napalm one. That might take something out of it. I mean really, can't you just imagine all the players spamming poor Phorid from somewhere he can't get to?

 

Edit: Nevermind, I forgot about those things can't "guns."

Edited June 6, 2013 by Lykoloo

[Yawyna124]

Most games never do flamethrowers justice. I've played so many damn shooters and not a single one strikes me out as "oh snap that was a hell of a flame thrower". They all tend to suck.

 

A good shotgun? Soldier of Fortune.

A good rocket launcher? Half-Life, Duke Nukem, Serious Sam, UT2k4

A good sniper? S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (gauss rifle), Quake 3 Arena, UT2k4

A good pistol? Half-Life, dat Colt Python

 

etc etc. I can never think of a game where I was, oh hey that was so good I actually wanted to use it. Even in far cry I couldn't be bothered.

The flamethrower in Rising Storm is pretty good.

[Vaskadar]

Remember, all the dojo weapons were rushed. They didn't expect people to form giant clans just to research the weapons.

But really, all they need to do is make it so that the projectiles don't get destroyed upon pawn collision.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Vaskadar