Time To Change Mesa?

[i_Lex]

Ok , well lets start of today. I'm just back of a S#&$ty week and then tried lvl-ing up some gear on Draco. 2nd round everyone 1 sec before start leaves.... well im left alone. Fine , I mean its easy running draco solo even with leveling gear done it so many times. You know what happens??? I get killed , sure mesa is squishy. I try again... get killed again , because energy drain and energy cost per ability is just too high. And mission failed...... First time that EVER happend.

 

My though of changes. 

 

Mesa:

 

TOO DAMN HIGH ( get the reference?) energy cost per ability AND energy drain on peace maker.

TOO LOW DMG on peace maker it self.

 

FIXES:

Decrease energy cost per ability and maybe even eliminate energy cost (on activation) for peace maker so I can get in and out of peace maker and not wasting 25 energy per toggle. And pls for god sake lower the energy drain. On base it has a whoping 15 / sec  and with my build I have 7.5 / sec and the lowest you can get is about 3 / sec but thats eliminating any dmg .... ( over extended  and - range + duration corrupted mod.)

 

And increase dmg per shot on peace maker OR make it use your side-arm mods. 

 

 

Thats all really. No need for buffs. No need for a revisit. just need to change the energy drain / cost and the dmg on peace maker. She might be squishy but if it cost almost 50 energy just for shatter shield ... Im dead already.

[Endrance]

3.5/s is not high.

Every hit you do, increased the damage on the next hit.

 

 

Let the reticule get really small, and wreck havoc.

 

 

Pop Shatter Shield and Shooting Galery and you won't "TOO LOW DMG".

 

Get your build properly done.

 

I have 50 secs (IIRC) of Shooting Galery and 45 of Shatter Shield, also with at least 30% effiency (can't recall if i use Fleeting Expertise).

 

 

She's fine. You need to Adapt. She no longer shines with only "pop 4, press attack, win", you need to aim, and the more you aim, the more damage you will do.

[Man_In_Suitcase]

Thats all really. No need for buffs. No need for a revisit. just need to change the energy drain / cost and the dmg on peace maker. She might be squishy but if it cost almost 50 energy just for shatter shield ... Im dead already.

 

Shatter Shield is great for face tanking whilest mowing down enemies with Peacemaker, I agree that the drain on PM is alittle too heavy, but it can be lessened by using duration mods as those effect toggle abilities, which again, is all the more reason to be using SS. She's no longer a hold 4 to win as you need to mix it up with Mesa, which is actually more engaging than before...

 

However damage wise, I think her PM should be effected by secondary mods which might happen in the future, but not till the multishot rework I'd wager, as she'd once again be borderline broken which defeats the purpose. Other Warframes though warrant a more of a tweak then Mesa atm, as it hasn't been that long since she had hers, like Limbo, Nekros, Oberon etc.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Man_In_Suitcase

[(PSN)Jyekah]

Ok , well lets start of today. I'm just back of a S#&$ty week and then tried lvl-ing up some gear on Draco. 2nd round everyone 1 sec before start leaves.... well im left alone. Fine , I mean its easy running draco solo even with leveling gear done it so many times. You know what happens??? I get killed , sure mesa is squishy. I try again... get killed again , because energy drain and energy cost per ability is just too high. And mission failed...... First time that EVER happend.

 

My though of changes. 

 

Mesa:

 

TOO DAMN HIGH ( get the reference?) energy cost per ability AND energy drain on peace maker.

TOO LOW DMG on peace maker it self.

 

FIXES:

Decrease energy cost per ability and maybe even eliminate energy cost (on activation) for peace maker so I can get in and out of peace maker and not wasting 25 energy per toggle. And pls for god sake lower the energy drain. On base it has a whoping 15 / sec  and with my build I have 7.5 / sec and the lowest you can get is about 3 / sec but thats eliminating any dmg .... ( over extended  and - range + duration corrupted mod.)

 

And increase dmg per shot on peace maker OR make it use your side-arm mods. 

 

 

Thats all really. No need for buffs. No need for a revisit. just need to change the energy drain / cost and the dmg on peace maker. She might be squishy but if it cost almost 50 energy just for shatter shield ... Im dead already.

mean while Hydroid just gets left at the bottom of the sea :'(

[Dobermann92]

Fleeting expertise is a must have on Mesa. You also need to recast Shatter shield every time.

[i_Lex]

3.5/s is not high.

Every hit you do, increased the damage on the next hit.

 

 

Let the reticule get really small, and wreck havoc.

 

 

Pop Shatter Shield and Shooting Galery and you won't "TOO LOW DMG".

 

Get your build properly done.

 

I have 50 secs (IIRC) of Shooting Galery and 45 of Shatter Shield, also with at least 30% effiency (can't recall if i use Fleeting Expertise).

 

 

She's fine. You need to Adapt. She no longer shines with only "pop 4, press attack, win", you need to aim, and the more you aim, the more damage you will do.

The problem here is that 3.5/s is eliminating ALL DMG that you can get .  And thats the problem . fyi i havent played her before the nerf because i didnt like her then but now she's even worse.

 

"Let the reticule get really small, and wreck havoc."

 

y

 

3.5/s is not high.

Every hit you do, increased the damage on the next hit.

 

 

Let the reticule get really small, and wreck havoc.

 

 

Pop Shatter Shield and Shooting Galery and you won't "TOO LOW DMG".

 

Get your build properly done.

 

I have 50 secs (IIRC) of Shooting Galery and 45 of Shatter Shield, also with at least 30% effiency (can't recall if i use Fleeting Expertise).

 

 

She's fine. You need to Adapt. She no longer shines with only "pop 4, press attack, win", you need to aim, and the more you aim, the more damage you will do.

The problem here is that 3.5/s is eliminating ALL DMG that you can get .  And thats the problem . fyi i havent played her before the nerf because i didnt like her then but now she's even worse. The problem here is that 3.5/s is eliminating ALL DMG that you can get .  And thats the problem . fyi i havent played her before the nerf because i didnt like her then but now she's even worse.

[Homer87]

Staggering Shield is a great augment for her. Also, in your example OP, by using Peacemaker you aren't leveling your weapons - the xp is going to Mesa instead of your weapons. But if you're going for a Peacemaker build, then you will need a combination of efficiency, duration and strength to pop the ability, stay in it for a while, and not have it be super expensive to maintain.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Homer87

[i_Lex]

mean while Hydroid just gets left at the bottom of the sea :'(

yes ofc , but you are atleast able to survive a draco solo as mesa gets killed without ss and that costs a kwater of her total energy

Staggering Shield is a great augment for her. Also, in your example, OP, by using Peacemaker, you aren't leveling your weapons - the xp is going to Mesa instead of your weapons. But if you're going for a Peacemaker build, then you will need a combination of efficiency, duration and strength to pop the ability, stay in it for a while, and not have it be super expensive to maintain.

I know when using peacemaker all the affinity goes to mesa i'm just addressing the issue i'm having.

Fleeting expertise is a must have on Mesa. You also need to recast Shatter shield every time.

thats also one of the main problems , recasting it every bloody time and wasting even more energy in the process . And making pm useless. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by sniperbro-captian-PS

[i_Lex]

Shatter Shield is great for face tanking whilest mowing down enemies with Peacemaker, I agree that the drain on PM is alittle too heavy, but it can be lessened by using duration mods as those effect toggle abilities, which again, is all the more reason to be using SS. She's no longer a hold 4 to win as you need to mix it up with Mesa, which is actually more engaging than before...

 

However damage wise, I think her PM should be effected by secondary mods which might happen in the future, but not till the multishot rework I'd wager, as she'd once again be borderline broken which defeats the purpose. Other Warframes though warrant a more of a tweak then Mesa atm, as it hasn't been that long since she had hers, like Limbo, Nekros, Oberon etc.

Multi shot is not bieng reworked fyi , ss is a great ability I agree, but putting it on reduces your energy like crap. and I feel it should have health and not duration like pre changed Rhino. PM bieng affected by secondary mods , Yes i already said that: ""And increase dmg per shot on peace maker OR make it use your side-arm mods.""

[Homer87]

 

I know when using peacemaker all the affinity goes to mesa i'm just addressing the issue i'm having.

Care to share your build?

[Man_In_Suitcase]

Multi shot is not bieng reworked fyi.....

 

Source?

[i_Lex]

Care to share your build?

Sure , stand by...

 

Btw , i dont agree SS augment mod bieng usefull because of projectiles not always going to same direction as hit scan weapons do.

[i_Lex]

Source?

DEV streams .

 

They're holding it off for a while till they know for sure how to do it. Because the rework that was described as "It's going to cost more ammo" didnt really make the community happy if you know what im saying.

[i_Lex]

My build I run with :

 

My attempt to try to get a very low drain:

 

Norm stats:

[Man_In_Suitcase]

DEV streams .

 

They're holding it off for a while

 

Ah ok, so they still are going too, they just don't know how yet. Gotcha.

[i_Lex]

 

Ah ok, so they still are going too, they just don't know how yet. Gotcha.

We are not even sure IF they are going to change multishot

[Homer87]

My build I run with :

 

My attempt to try to get a very low drain:

 

Norm stats:

I would swap over extended for fleeting to gain back some power strength and increase efficiency, so that the costs for activating abilities and channeling isn't so high. Your duration is pretty high and that will take a hit, but because of the cheaper costs and extended duration, you'll still be able to keep up your abilities for a longer period of time.

[Kontrollo]

I'm not sure what exactly the problem is, you have a (potential) 95% damage reduction in Shatter Shield, which has a base duration of 25 seconds. A lot of 'frames would kill for that kind of a durability buff, I don't think 75 energy is too steep for that. Yours is even at 45 seconds.

​

​So sorry if I'm dense, but how exactly did they manage to kill you? Did you run out of energy because you used too much on Peacemaker? If so, I agree Peacemaker costs a lot these days. However I'm not relying on it anyway so I don't mind it all that much.

[i_Lex]

I'm not sure what exactly the problem is, you have a (potential) 95% damage reduction in Shatter Shield, which has a base duration of 25 seconds. A lot of 'frames would kill for that kind of a durability buff, I don't think 75 energy is too steep for that. Yours is even at 45 seconds.

​

​So sorry if I'm dense, but how exactly did they manage to kill you? Did you run out of energy because you used too much on Peacemaker? If so, I agree Peacemaker costs a lot these days. However I'm not relying on it anyway so I don't mind it all that much.

Well I didnt even activate peace maker so often. the main problem is its to hard to get energy AND the cost to cast SS is a around 50+ so its costing me alot.

[i_Lex]

and also scorches BURN through your health and shields.

I'm not exactly impressed what DE made. This frame is just too squishy . I gave ALOT of valid reasons , why and how to change her. STILL DE refuses to actually even look at threads like these.

[Nocturnex]

Two things need to happens with Mesa. One, her Peacemaker needs to be like Ivara's Artemis Bow where her energy is expended for every shot she fire out of her Regulators. I say about, 0.3 - 1.5 energy per shot. Two, Mesa needs to move. While on Peacemaker mode, she need to go full-on Robert Rodriguez-style Desperado shooting. Look at video below , for reference.

 

https://youtu.be/AEEf_00tNos?t=1m31s

[Kontrollo]

and also scorches BURN through your health and shields.

 

Ah right, Scorches. That might be it.

[i_Lex]

Two things need to happens with Mesa. One, her Peacemaker needs to be like Ivara's Artemis Bow where her energy is expended for every shot she fire out of her Regulators. I say about, 0.3 - 1.5 energy per shot. Two, Mesa needs to move. While on Peacemaker mode, she need to go full-on Robert Rodriguez-style Desperado shooting. Look at video below , for reference.

 

https://youtu.be/AEEf_00tNos?t=1m31s

both are a no to me. Only thing she needs is a REAL decrease on all her ability costs / drain.

Edited January 22, 2016 by sniperbro-captian-PS

[XantDee]

I really have no problem with high energy cost, even without primed mods.
I have 130% efficiency, 2xx% duration and 170% power str.

 

I just use large energy restores, switching off regulators as pizzas are about to pulse. Can do it pretty much infinitely (or as long as you have the pizzas), but its a bit hard to get used to timing.
Zenurik passive also helps regain energy while running around for some time.

 

I still think that the main issue with Mesa is that her OTHER abilities are horrendously boring.
Passive damage with sorta-stun, passive shield, semi-passive charged sorta-buff... really, thats boring! Also, being a sitting duck, when activating your most useful and fun ability... Too little actual interaction.

 

Compare this to, say, Excalibur? Mobility, Crowd control, AoE damage, Uber-blade. Like a ton more fun.
Or Rhino and Valkyr? Sure, they have buffs. But they also have mobility.
Or even a Hydroid? He may not be powerful or popular, but he is definitely fun to play with his fun skillset

 

I think a gunslinger needs mobility. Maybe desperado-style, maybe DMC-style... Anything!
As of now, Mesa looks more like a stationary turret, which isnt all that gunslinger-ish.

 

I LOVE Mesa. I love the concept, love the looks. Love the peacemaker-gunkata-devastation. But i really find her first three abilities somewhat boring.

[(PSN)LoneWolf_001]

The damage is really pathetic. I'm sure someone loves it and has some invalidating argument as to it's effectiveness...Just, no. There's nothing Peacemaker can do that I can't do better with my primary or secondary. Yes, the damage ramps up, yes you can make it more efficient, but it falls short on effective damage quickly while still killing your mobility. I like the more interactive approach, although the sight ring really needs a more visible reticle.