Ammunition Is A Problem.

[ApolloPhoenix]

Most full-auto weapons are weaker than semi-auto weapons. Of course, this makes sense; with semi-auto weapons, your precision is rewarded with higher damage output, and with full-auto weapons, ease of use is offset by lower overall damage output. Why, then, do ammo pickups give a set amount of bullets? Picking up 20 bullets for a Latron is not equivalent to picking up 20 bullets for a Gorgon. With the ludicrous ammo comsumption of many of the full-auto weapons, it is simply impossible to keep using them as a primary weapon.These weapons already suffer from lower damage output than precision weapons in general, why should they be so limited by available ammunition?

 

The solution: make ammo pickups scale with your clip size or max ammo. That way, you actually get an amount of bullets appropriate to your weapon, and you are not punished for preferring full-auto weapons.

 

(for anyone curious to see if this is a problem: buy a new unleveled Gorgon and Afuris, and try to beat a mission solo without completely running out of ammo. It's not easy. Then try the same thing with a Paris and Lato, and see the difference.)

 

Thoughts/ other suggestions?

[Firetempest]

No one uses ammo box utility items, they are cheap enough?

[SolluxCaptorTA]

They're very hard to use in the middle of a firefight, limited in what you can bring, annoying, and shouldn't be needed for every mission. That means you have to pay credits just to keep using a Gorgon.

[Oleker]

Ammo boxes fill up all ammo store, as far as i know...

[Quazar123]

No one uses ammo box utility items, they are cheap enough?

I have quite a few in my inventory at all times and use them.

 

They're very hard to use in the middle of a firefight, limited in what you can bring, annoying, and shouldn't be needed for every mission. That means you have to pay credits just to keep using a Gorgon.

I use ammo boxes and they are not expensive , I do not have to use one every game and it is not like i every "have" to use or buy them it is all personal choice, if you spam any gun enough you will run out of ammo.

 

 

I have used the gorgon for a long time and yes ammo is a problem for it but that is one of the things that makes it balanced for the large damage output that you can get after leveling it and adding high level mods, I do not belive that at higher level areas you can finish any level without some sort of ranked weapon or frame, on lower levels were it is feesable to solo with any unranked weapon and it is not that dificult to solo with a gorgon you simply need to use your ammo wiselly and not spray and pray. On higher levels with a higher ranked gun all you need to do is buy some ammo boxes is you want to be able to spam all you want.

 

 

 

Edit

 

 

Ammo boxes fill up all ammo store, as far as i know...

 

yes yes they do and i hardly ever need more then one if that and they pay for them self

Edited June 6, 2013 by Quazar123

[Xylia]

I'm of a mindset that Ammo Boxes should restore a % of your max ammo instead of a set number.

 

My Broncos never run out of ammo at all; it has a 3-shot clip (with mod) and is capable of downing mid-level mobs with 1 clip. Ammo Drops give the Broncos 20 Ammo. I can kill 4-6 Mobs with each Clip.

 

Compare that to Furis or Viper, it still takes you a whole clip to kill something, but their clips are more like 15 or so. You might kill 1-2 mobs with a single Ammo Drop.

 

And then there's Gorgon vs other guns.

 

With my Boltor, it takes 3 drops to fill a clip. I can usually kill something in 4-5 shots in mid-levels, sometimes up to 10 if my aim is bad or if I'm in a heated firefight and moving around. This means I'm doing about 6 mobs every 3 drops in a heated fight. I can sometimes do 10-12 mobs every 3 drops.

 

Gorgon?

 

lol.

 

You can blow through half a clip or more on a single mob. That's 3 boxes for 1, maybe 2 mobs if you get lucky.

 

I'm thinking that boxes should restore about 20% of your weapon's maximum ammo capacity. That way, guns like Hek, Broncos, Latrons, etc don't end up ruling the game in the Ammo department, where the Poor Gorgon ends up being "keep it on your back until you meet the boss".

[Stinker]

Ammo Drum just needs to not suck. Instead of 30% additional starting ammo, how about 300%? I'm dropping a large chunk of my mod capacity to put it on, it better be worth it!

Edited June 6, 2013 by Stinker

[Xylia]

Ammo Drum just needs to not suck. Instead of 30% additional starting ammo, how about 300%? I'm dropping a large chunk of my mod capacity to put it on, it better be worth it!

 

That's a little much, lol.

 

700-some Ammo on a Boltor? Uh yeah.......

 

Maybe Ammo Drum could be changed or re-worked so that ammo boxes picked up restore more ammo? maybe 25/30/35/40?

[ra9una]

The lack of ammo on full auto guns is part of the weakness....seems pretty straight forward to me.

[Carcharias]

Ode to Grakata.

With the right mods, your power came alight

The mobs before me trembled and took flight

But your thirst for ammo could not be quenched

No matter how much blood on the walls were drenched

Now with no ammo and the enemy abound

I look to my Lex and remember to save the last round.

R.I.P. Grakata - the brightest flame burns quickest

[Gearb0x]

I love that Limmerick.

 

For more on this topic, check out these two weapon feedback threads:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/37885-the-ammunition-system-needs-work-as-of-u8-and-before/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/59588-ammo-recovery-needs-serious-fix/

 

Which feature some system breakdown, some vital analysis, some compelling rebuttals and a lot of great thinking.

[gell]

I don't have a huge issue with ammo, even in Gorgon, but I do think it should all be percentages. Many games do this because it balances the generic ammo. "Rifle ammo" is not specific enough since a Latron and Gorgon use them both. DE should get on this.

 

At the same time, I say that you should actually need to use your sidearm and melee weapons from time to time (I personally use melee almost exclusively but that's irrelevant, I just know someone would say it). Why should you be able to just spray with your one ammo-munching weapon all the time? The price for the high damage output and auto-fire is normally ammo consumption and accuracy. You should be running out. One to two mobs depletes your ammo? Stop trying to snipe that guy with your Gorgon.

 

The only time ammo is really a problem is on really high-level Defense missions, but I do think restoring a percentage is better than a static amount.

[Densoro1]

Huh, I'd just assumed ammo amount was scaled to the type of gun. Had never noticed how limited it was; that makes no sense o_O Obviously if you kill a dude and he drops a clip for a full-auto weapon, it should be tailored to a full-auto weapon. 

I'm totally on-board with OP, nobody in their right mind would be carrying an underfed mag for their weapon.

[Stinker]

That's a little much, lol.

 

700-some Ammo on a Boltor? Uh yeah.......

Is it though? To gain the nice boost of ammo, you have to give up a good 10 mod points as well as a mod slot for the option of bringing additional ammo. That mod slot could be used for additional damage output to the same effect as carrying a truck load of bullets. Instead of doing 200 damage per bullet and low ammo, you do 160 damage output with plenty of ammo.

 

Sounds pretty balanced to me.

[Ju5tice]

I definitely think their needs to be some ammo scaling based of the weapon you are using.

 

No reason I should keep picking up 10-20 pistol ammo regardless if I am using Dual Vipers or Lex

[RyojinOrion]

I personally think the ammo drops are fine the way they are. I almost never run out of ammo, even with my Gorgon, and when I do, there are always plenty of ammo drops everywhere anyway. It is all about how you use the weapon. If you spray and pray from a distance and miss a lot of your shots, then yeah, ammo is gonna be an issue. But if you aim carefully and closely and hit your target almost all the time, ammo shouldn't be an issue.

 

Making ammo boxes scale seems like unnecessary code modification that could potentially cause more harm than good, by introducing more bugs.

[Densoro1]

Anything can create more bugs though XD

[RyojinOrion]

True, but that has more potential to cause a bug than something like adding a new weapon, which more or less uses the same code as other weapons. I didn't mean for the 'bug' part to be focused on over the 'unnecessary' part. I apologize for not making myself clearer there.

 

 

Of course, the 'unnecessary' bit is just my opinion, but then again, so is ammunition being a problem in the first place. :D

Edited June 7, 2013 by RyojinOrion

[Densoro1]

 /shrugs I have similar troubles with running out of ammo. I had to basically abandon one mission to rushing because the alarm kept calling more guys than I could solo, and then when I holed up in a corner to take them all out, they'd set the alarm back up, rinse and repeat. I ended up with no ammo, hacked the alarm and just booked it to extraction through like ten rooms of missed exp/credits.

 

That in mind, I don't see what the problem is with rifle ammo giving you, say, 60 compared to 20 for pistols.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

I think there is to much ammo in this game its actualy to easy to insta fill your guns with ammo boxes and all thos drops

 

what if ammo was not refilled after game but retained and you could store extra ammo and bring in only what you want and hunt for the rest

 

and they had elemental ammo instead of mods so you have to kill certen monsters to get that ammo type you want they could have an ammo switch button

you would kill that pyro and he drops super rare fire ammo  you would save that S#&$ for later it would be important to you this would give ammo a value

 

and all the current ammo mods could be turned into fusion cores with the exact same ammount of energy worth as you put into them so you wont lose all that time and effort

 

this would hurt full auto guns more but they would need to add 2 new types of ammo smg and heavy gun wich you would be able to buy and bring a set ammount but find more as your in to save for later even be able to sell ammo so you can buy the ammo you use another source of income say if you don't use shotguns bam! shotgun ammo can be sold

[BadAimbot]

Ammo efficiency is a balancing factor. Removing it would mean that many weapons would have to be nerfed in other areas to make up for it. And besides, you have 3 weapon slots. Having one ammo inefficient weapon in your loadout isn't so bad.

[Densoro1]

One of those weapons is a melee weapon. Do you wanna rush an entire clustered platoon that can fire through one-another, just to kill them one at a time with your katana? e__e