New System Proposition. All Enemies Are 100+.

[Hellmaker2004]

A system where you can vote to start of against higher level enemies, is not something i am against. It would be a good tool until they make the game hard by design, ratter than with artificial difficulty hidden in over scaled enemies.

But your point is to make harder content with scaling and then have special "mods" with no max rank to counter there scaling. I can't even understand that idea. All it would do is make your fight against a level 100 the same as vs a level 200 eventually.

[MythBringer]

If you limit Frame ability's to do stuff as lower enemy damage, absorb it or deal damage how do you balance that out. You either make it to strong or to weak and eventually it will become worthless. (Unless you of course have a scaling on the ability's, scaling from enemy level.) And that is the problem with the change you proposed.

It would render all the frame powers worthless unless it has some sort of CC effect, but as you said. You also want to limit that with Diminishing return, and all that would change is that either you get better at bouncing the different CC ability's(Not shared diminishing effect between frames). Or you simply make all Frame ability's worthless at one point(CC effect share diminishing and enemies become more and more resilient the higher level they are.)

 

A system where you can vote to start of against higher level enemies, is not something i am against. It would be a good tool until they make the game hard by design, ratter than with artificial difficulty hidden in over scaled enemies.

But your point is to make harder content with scaling and then have special "mods" with no max rank to counter there scaling. I can't even understand that idea. All it would do is make your fight against a level 100 the same as vs a level 200 eventually.

 

 

Analogy: Lifting 10kg of weight, is not the same thing as lifting 50kg, but the exercise is the same. You grow stronger, the more you practice...

 

About the scalling, If the enemy can scale, then we should also be able to scale as well. It is simple math....

It is not the same thing, because if you remove the cosmetic armor with the new mods that you have been leveling up, you die or won't do any damage at all.

It is not the same thing, because other players that don't have the same items and mods that you have, cannot do the same level of missions.

 

I never stated that my point is to make harder content ONLY by making enemy levels scale. I mentioned that it is one of the things that can do it. Artificial Inteligence from enemies (trash) and bosses need a serious review. I mention it, several times here, the concept is so much more than "scalling enemies".....

Edited February 1, 2016 by MythBringer

[MythBringer]

Now added in spoiler 4:

 

Another example, I got bored and made an animation in blender to show how can Assassination missions/raids be "diferent" by simply messing around with the map. The duration of the entire map, is obviously longer than 10 seconds, this is just a visual example.

- In the center is the boss, the rotating piece simbolizes a laser that one shots any Tenno that gets hit, forcing them to rotate.

- The red minions on the big round wall, trigger a deadly gas/fire, that can kill Tenno. The team has to kill all red minions or use the cilinder that is rotating around the platform, to get to the big wall.

- On the platform, there are traps/doors on the ground, if any one falls in it, dies.

- The black minion tries to reach the boss, if he does reach the boss, he gets healed or deals more damage.

[Shockwave-]

Your suggestions generally have some merit (side objectives and rewarding good game play in general) but your hatred of non clan players and carrier for no reason removes a great deal of legitimacy from your post.

[MythBringer]

lol. Clan is a group of friends, people who can and should share your moments with. "hapiness is only true when it's shared". You should always be rewarded for spending time with your friends. Has nothing to do with hatred. Exactly the opposite.

 

About the carrier, he offers nothing to the team or gameplay. Vaccum is a Farming/grinding ability which, if possible, I would rather see discarded. Since the loot could drop all at once, at the end of the mission.

Edited February 1, 2016 by MythBringer

[Hellmaker2004]

 

About the scalling, If the enemy can scale, then we should also be able to scale as well. It is simple math....

It is not the same thing, because if you remove the cosmetic armor with the new mods that you have been leveling up, you die or won't do any damage at all.

It is not the same thing, because other players that don't have the same items and mods that you have, cannot do the same level of missions.

 

I never stated that my point is to make harder content ONLY by making enemy levels scale. I mentioned that it is one of the things that can do it. Artificial Inteligence from enemies (trash) and bosses need a serious review. I mention it, several times here, the concept is so much more than "scalling enemies".....

 

What is the point of having enemy scale if you scale with them?

 

All it will do assuming you scale in a linear fashion is to give you the illusion that you can kill higher level, and at the same time split the player base between those with the "mods" and those without. And if it does not occur in a linear fashion. Then you will still come to a point where X frame become worthless as there Ability's will not contribute anything.

 

The current Scaling is bad, but it is never there to be used as a "high" level content, it is there to push you / force you away from Survival / Defense eventually.

[MythBringer]

All it will do

is keep us busy with something. Hellmaker2004, I understand you are trying to find flaws in the scaling. But it's the enemies damage that needs to be revised, along with the possibility of diferent abilities being able to make a more enjoyable game. Besides that you are not presenting a solution yourself.

 

My solution gives you:

- a chance to fight enemies with the same level as you would find in a 2,3,4 even 5 hour survival;

- a chance to fight those enemies, instantly, instead of losing time waiting for them to level up;

- a chance to make use of all your cosmetic armor. By upgrading each piece with an arcane enchancement and unique mods;

- a chance to implement, use and upgrade new mods, uncapped with out max rank, that can give you new warframe abilities, new powers to weapons, or defensive powers;

- a chance to play missions where you can focus on the game objectives instead of looting during the game;

- a chance to compete among ourselfs (all Tenno) to see who can achieve the highest level mission, with possible unique rewards for the top players, every season or every year.

 

Aside from the "assassination raid", with improved artifical enemies, new warframe mechanics and abilities, chanlenging  environments, and new loot rules.

 

I didn't mentioned linear scale, don 't distort my words or assume anything. I said we should also be able to scale as well. But I still don't know what you want from the game... Besides the extra inteligence on the enemies you mentioned nothing else. Think, if you do not aprove of this game having this type of scalling system, what can you suggest having implemented, as content for veteran players?

[MythBringer]

--------///--------

Spoiler number 7 was "Edited and expanded" to the following post:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/605924-weapons-and-cosmetic-armor-new-abilities-and-stats-with-new-mods/

[Hellmaker2004]

Me not presenting a solution is not a valid argument to use to give your own ideas leverage. I am not trying to be rude or dismiss your idea whole hearted, i am trying to tell you why i don't believe in the system as you have written it. Admittedly some points you have are good and some are bad bellow i will try and explain what i think of the few points you marked out. And i would in fact i would say that some of the Unique mods you showed are excellent ideas.

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- a chance to fight enemies with the same level as you would find in a 2,3,4 even 5 hour survival;

- a chance to fight those enemies, instantly, instead of losing time waiting for them to level up;

These are not something i am against, they are perfect for people who want a challenge, but it would be better suited in a simulacrum environment where you pick the enemy level and get a proper reward if you complete it.

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- a chance to play missions where you can focus on the game objectives instead of looting during the game;

Is as well not something i am completely against. Ammo and energy pickup comes to mind but there could be ways to incorporate that whiteout forcing people to use a lot of Pizza's.

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- a chance to compete among ourselves (all Tenno) to see who can achieve the highest level mission, with possible unique rewards for the top players, every season or every year.

Could be nice, but considering how many people have already completed the Obstacle Course in 1 second or less i would see a lot of people doing similar stuff only so they could be top ranked. But overall not a bad idea if it is done in a good way.

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- a chance to make use of all your cosmetic armor. By upgrading each piece with an arcane enhancement and unique mods;

- a chance to implement, use and upgrade new mods, uncapped with out max rank, that can give you new warframe abilities, new powers

This is where i see the problem.

One of the point is to make cosmetic armor provided as a new slot for specific mods. I am against this but only because it is in a cosmetic way. If done in a unique mod slot (Similar to exilus) i could accept it as long as they do not give to big of a advantage.

The other problem is the no cap on certain mods. As it would serve no purpose. They are there to primarily counter that of the enemy leveling. So in a fashion they only negate the effect of facing higher level enemies resulting in a net loss or gain of nothing, it would only end in splitting the community by those with level 1 mods or those that have reached 100+ mod level. And i feel that this would be a terrible idea. So all they will achieve is a higher gap between new players, and give you the impression of becoming stronger. Even if this occur in a none linear fashion one way or another it will break the system even more eventually. Either by splitting the game community or making the foes we face to strong anyway resorting in people finding a way to cheese the game type.

[MythBringer]

Warframe already has 2 cosmetic armor that you can equip arcane enchancements (helmet and syandana). It's not a unique mod, but I am not suggesting nothing out of the ordinary here. So the same way the syandanas can be aquiered through Sorties and faction reputation, so could the armor. Allowing all players to get their hands on them with out spending platinum.

 

But you are right. They were initially tought as "cosmetic" items only. Which would cause low level players to feel descriminated because those items would become an upgrade instead of just "stylish", however this would only apply if this content was meant for them, which is not! This is meant for players who are still waiting for another "Trial" (hoping that it will be better than LoR) but it never comes. [for veterans].

 

The unique mods on a slot "similar to Exilus" obviously is a good alternative. However the mods would only affect that type of weapon. So the mods that change/alter warframes would have no place to be equipped, or you would have to "Substitute/Replace" for others. For example: if you want to gain stacks for more damage every time you cast an ability, you would have to sacrifice a "vitality" or other relevant mod.

 

 

The other problem is the no cap on certain mods. As it would serve no purpose. They are there to primarily counter that of the enemy leveling. So in a fashion they only negate the effect of facing higher level enemies resulting in a net loss or gain of nothing, it would only end in splitting the community by those with level 1 mods or those that have reached 100+ mod level. And i feel that this would be a terrible idea. So all they will achieve is a higher gap between new players, and give you the impression of becoming stronger. Even if this occur in a none linear fashion one way or another it will break the system even more eventually. Either by splitting the game community or making the foes we face to strong anyway resorting in people finding a way to cheese the game type.

 

You play "Trials and Sorties" with level 5 accounts or rank mastery. Is that what you fear breaking?! A system of leechers? :\

There is a reason for the first mission of the system being a "Test". It's to separate the ones who are ready, and those who aren't, so the "spliting community" makes no sense to me....

 

What you have forgoten or missed. Infinite or:

-endless CC,

-endless energy regeneration,

-endless heals,

-endless immunity damage,

-endless enemy scale in level, damage and health.

 

The first 4 points are the rules which your warframe is built uppon, in order to succeed in the game. You say the enemy scalling is the problem of the game mechanics/system. However those 5 are the problem. As they are now, they don't work because only a few warframes benefit from it. You can check other Posts, I am not the only one who thinks this way.

 

Along with the new "no cap" mods, all changes were suggested accordingly. Changes to CC, energy, heals, immunity and scale. So the mods that you hate so much should only be implemented, if the other changes were made as well. Otherwise, it doesn't really matter if you have more mods or not, because you would still be Unkillable, the enemy will continue to be 100% blinded/in vortex, you would always have energy and could recast over and over all your spells due to lack of CDs.....

 

What I tried in the original post is to offer some suggestions in how to balance ALL the rules of the game, so that more warframes, weapons and general items can be played and enjoyed.

Edited February 9, 2016 by MythBringer