lNogardl Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Meh why are all Grand Masters full of it? Because they blew so many $$ on this game. This is not a Beta, it may be stated to be beta by the DEVS. However in real terms this is certainly not beta. I await fan boy responses. Can you please explain why it isn't a beta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottFaust Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 and now explain each point instead of saying that "nobody have a clue blahblah". start with first one and explain how "software development cycles" work etc. etc. Meh why are all Grand Masters full of it? Because they blew so many $$ on this game. This is not a Beta, it may be stated to be beta by the DEVS. However in real terms this is certainly not beta. I await fan boy responses. My case in point. It's not my job to educate you, that's yours and your professor's job. I'm starting to think that I am the only Software Engineer besides those employed by DE who posts on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law_Abiding_Engineer Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Warframe is the buggiest game i've seen (even for beta) so idk. Bethesda would like to have a word with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lNogardl Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Fanboys will be fanboys. Warframe is not in beta. Being in beta would imply that they are asking us to test a game that they have developed, free of charge. The second they start offering things for money (at exorbitant prices, at that) it is no longer in beta. There's nothing wrong with this except that you are using bad terminology, and using 'beta' as an excuse for them to not internally test a lot (if not most) of their patches. The clan weapons, for example. Many of them are very, very poor. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that something is overpowered or underpowered. It's okay for them to not be in beta. It's not okay for them to not internally test and then ask us for money to test it for them. Get it? That is the most stupid thing i have ever seen. You clearly have never played any other betas, almost every single OPEN/CLOSED BETA game out there HAS a game shop, believe me i've played MANY betas. A Beta is supposed to imply that the game is still not fully developed and will be exposed to fixes along updates to make it fully released. What's wrong with purchasing items along the way since that will only help the developers fix things even more? Stop being so ignorant for Gods sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus-Venera Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 My case in point. It's not my job to educate you, that's yours and your professor's job. I'm starting to think that I am the only Software Engineer besides those employed by DE who posts on this forum. an other empty post. since you have zero facts and zero proves i see this as boring trolling. btw. don't say again that "nobody have a clue". you have no rights to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalenath Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) and now explain each point instead of saying that "nobody have a clue blahblah". start with first one and explain how "software development cycles" work etc. etc. And why should we? Why can't YOU go look it up? Answer? You don't WANT to. YOu are too lazy to. You want it handed to you or you are trolling for an emotional response. Well, I for one don't WANT to try and educate you. You can lead a troll to knowledge, but you cannot make him think. Meh why are all Grand Masters full of it? Because they blew so many $$ on this game. This is not a Beta, it may be stated to be beta by the DEVS. However in real terms this is certainly not beta. I await fan boy responses. You have my pity. You see what is written and ignore it for your own interpretation. Ignorant fanaticism always makes me sad. Your opinion is noted and it is YOURS. Not mine. It will never be mine, You will never sway me to your hate filled, ego-centric excuse for logic and I know that steams you. I am truly sorry that you feel the way you do, but in the end, it doesn't matter. I don't really CARE what YOU feel any more than YOU care what 'I' feel. You hate the game? Then -seriously- why don't you go play something else. Hate IS a poison, despite what some politicians may say. (Oh and I am a Grand Master because I wanted to support the company and make a difference in this game. That doesn't mean I am the ONLY one full of it. Especially when one has to resort to personal attacks instead of logic. Trollfail.) Edited June 7, 2013 by Kalenath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethics Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 The fact that things change often and sometimes quite drastically, especially in response to player feedback tells me this game is totally Beta, and doing what it should be. The cash shop is irrelevant to me, i have money to spend, i do, game is still beta and i make purchases acknowledging this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lNogardl Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I'm getting sick of this "Fanboy" crap all over this thread, it just clearly shows that people have never played betas and if they did it was in a game that decided to do it differently, so all the games must be like that wow! If you want to flame that much go flame somewhere else and leave this game alone. Please someone lock this ignorant thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliocerion Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Lunia was in Beta for a year, then it shut down for a year, then ijji got it again with a normal release... and proceeded to f*** with it so hard that it was buggier than alpha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Story4 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta "The alpha phase usually ends with a feature freeze, indicating that no more features will be added to the software. At this time, the software is said to be feature complete." "Beta, named after the second letter of the Greek alphabet, is the software development phase following alpha. It generally begins when the software is feature complete." So WF still has a lot of stuff coming so it isn't feature complete... So it's either an alpha, or a release with expansive patches, but NOT a beta. And i'm leaning towards release since it's charging money. Edited June 7, 2013 by Story4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalenath Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) At least it isn't the marketing demos that Ubisoft releases as THEIR 'Open Betas'. You know, the ones a week before they launch their 'polished' products? You believe whatever you want. I will believe what I want. Edited June 7, 2013 by Kalenath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Story4 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 You believe whatever you want. I will believe what I want. "An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalenath Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) "An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded" OK, good one, you made me laugh. Not everyday I see a Dawn of War quote. So rare these days since THQ went under. You want to act like a 40K space marine here? Go right ahead. I WILL markerlight you and hit you with twin linked railguns. 'For the Greater GOOD!' Edited June 7, 2013 by Kalenath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumireaver Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Fanboys will be fanboys. This is ad hominem. You are asserting that the validity of our arguments is subject to question because you have deemed fit to label us as "fanboys," rather than addressing the actual points we have presented. Everything from their responsiveness to our bug reports, the frequency of their hotfixes, down to Scott telling us that the reason we don't have an "/unstuck" command is because he wants players to report wallclip locations so that they can be fixed before really letting Warframe set sail should indicate to you that this game is in beta. Try go let go of your preconceived notions of what a "beta" is. I'm sure a larger part of your confusion stems from unfamiliarity with the emergent free-to-play genre, and how this relatively new business model has affected game development. Have a nice day. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Story4 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) OK, good one, you made me laugh. Not everyday I see a Dawn of War quote. So rare these days since THQ went under. You want to act like a 40K space marine here? Go right ahead. I WILL markerlight you and hit you with twin linked railguns. 'For the Greater GOOD!' That quote just seems the most apropriate for the internet and especially forums. Everybody has his opinion and they never change it. Edited June 7, 2013 by Story4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-KrS-fsarl Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 i like this beta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallon1969 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 de decides when its ready or not. every single f2p game with founder programs (like firefall for eg) sell ingame currency and items. it's a part of the business plan. and noother than de can say it's complete. ^^ This exactly. There is no law, set of rules, etc... that magically govern software. It will be out of beta when de announces it "out of beta". Can someone tell me, wtf it matters? Why argue over something so trivial. Got to agree with this^^ But still pisses me off when people just make crap up about the way they "think" things should be and then try to ram it down our throats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalenath Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) That quote just seems the most apropriate for the internet and especially forums. Everybody has his opinion and they never change it. Again, good point. Thing is, SOME opinions may change. I was an Ubisoft fanboy for a VERY long time. Basically from 2003 until 2010. I was a fanboy, they could do no wrong in my eyes. It took them gutting the Splinter Cell games, the Ghost Recon games and basically telling all PC players who begged for any kind of support to '**** off' to get me to change my opinion. Now to me Ubisoft is ONE small step above SOE in the league of infamy who will NEVER be paid full price for ANYTHING they make. So opinions can change. I am not rabidly devoted to DE. They make some doozy mistakes and I tell them when they do. Not always a politely as I could. People telling me that THEIR opinion is the ONLY right one tend to tick me off. Edited June 7, 2013 by Kalenath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exit. Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 My case in point. Full of it much? How can a game that's not in beta be so buggy. I can't stand the bugs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalenath Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) How can a game that's not in beta be so buggy. I can't stand the bugs... Um... Marvel Heroes (You think OUR bugs are bad???) Any game released by Bethesda (Do I need to spell them out? We will be here a while...) Any game by Ubisoft released in the last 5 years. (Their idea of customer support? *crickets*) Need I go on? Buggy doesn't necessarily mean beta. Beta doesn't necessarily mean buggy. Edited June 7, 2013 by Kalenath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exit. Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Um... Marvel Heroes Any game released by Bethesda Any game by Ubisoft released in the last 5 years Need I go on? Well given the amount of players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalenath Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Well given the amount of players... 'Star Wars: The Old Republic' Open Beta had hundreds of thousands of players (Not sure actual #s, but above 300k) on simultaneously at times. We crashed the servers AND the website on at least three different occasions that I know of by sheer weight of numbers.Then the launch and... And the bugs... OMG the bugs... *cringes* SOME of which haven't been fixed to this day. Edited June 7, 2013 by Kalenath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artaban Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Technically the game's in late alpha. Beta is when a software is feature complete fulfilling the 1st v1.0 public release plan, and enters the public testing and debugging stage. No major changes or additions will be made to the software at that stage, unless it fails so hard that it goes back into alpha again. The issue is not which stage of development warframe is in, but rather players are paying full price (or more) for an alpha release and then complaining about it. The problem goes deeper. Because the game is in alpha, developers are rushing to get as much content out as quickly as possible (hint. E3). Largely ignoring balance, tweaking and debugging except for the most critical issues, which players were expecting to be the priority because the title says "beta" in the first place. Early impressions of warframe from the major publishers have already questioned the repetitiveness and lack of content in the game, which in my opinion is the most pressing concern in order to showcase the game to the media. And of course E3 will have a different build of warframe, unless we get it this week (u8 isn't going to fool anyone when people actually start spending some time on it) So back to topic. Warframe is really in alpha, and players need to decide if they will support its development knowing that priority for now is content development and not balance or bug fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firequill Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 The whole confusion about what state a piece of software (games in particular) is in, is mainly due to how fast the games industry has pushed the boundaries of what's an acceptable business practice.. If One, single company gets away with making a profit on something that used to be deemed community-driven charity (i.e beta-testing) then guess what? Every single business thereafter will copy the same formula, and expand upon it. For instance take this whole "founders-package" thing, it's basically inspired by the kickstarer projects, and a call for a financial boost for smallish developers to be able to finish a game before funds run out, most often by giving something exclusive in return, like a title or a cosmetic item. The first of these i heard of was Mechwarrior online, and since they pulled in extreme amounts of money from it most others followed suit. Gamers seem to be willing to plop down obscene smounts of cash these days for even a rumour of a promise of something great later on. Which is, i think, a part of a greater social issue that these forums aren't made for and i won't touch on it here. Frankly, the company-consumer relation is inching very close to business-investor levels.. The difference being though, that gamers that invest by buying founders-packs and such are getting zero return on investment. While people that pay almost the same amount by stocks and shares get a financial share... One could argue that founders-packs and such are a form of charity towards a games development life, and rightly so, however, that doesn't explain the prevalence of the cash-shops. (There are perfectly fine ways of testing cash-shop content without it requiring real money) As always, profit-driven businesses will do exactly just enough to keep you paying and not an iota more. Greatest profit possible with as little time invested as possible. DE is not responsible for it, it's just how it works in games these days. I have no doubt that DE, like any other studio are just trying to make as good a game as possible, and to do that they have to get an income, and thusly has to follow the current trends in monetizing, wether it's moral or not, wether they want to or not. DE is currently straddling the border of what i think is justifiable, and they know it. Tl;dr Don't like the current state of gaming? Vote with your wallet, that's the only way corporations will get the message that somethings wrong. But hey, at least it's not neverwinter, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraveDude8 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Personally, I think the fact that they ripped out the ENTIRE MOD SYSTEM and replaced it says something about the Beta tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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