Incentives.

[RyojinOrion]

you know what would help? a realistic sentinel, like possibly a cat that fires laser beams, we could call it "pew pew laser cat" but aside from its offensive capabilities you can play with it in a special screen, like get closeness, etc, and a "happier" kitten does more damage

 

I had to recommend this because I thought some of the characters from my little pony would be too much for the job.

 

Dude, if you can't take this seriously, please leave the thread alone.

 

Thank god you took my advice on leaving the 'fighting dehydration' out of this, though. XD

[belthagor]

Dude, if you can't take this seriously, please leave the thread alone.

 

Thank god you took my advice on leaving the 'fighting dehydration' out of this, though. XD

why are you mentioning it then? Additionally I was totally serious, our 3 sentinels are as follows

 

1. ugly worm

2. uglier worm

3. a mini cardboard box colored in order to attempt to make up for what it is lacking and nicknamed "......cube''

 

Like it or not our pets need to be similar to, lets say.. the maplestory pets. For example you could program it to pick up obstacles for you, tired of not wanting the blue circle drops? Or only hunting for fusion cores and rare cards? toggle it so it wont pick up common/uncommon. If you want to increase the games popularity

 

You may all private message me if you want the link to our battle against dehydration which is kept seperate because of my respect for Ryojin.

I encourage you to post something I will love to read, just like everyone else did on it before. =)

Edited June 8, 2013 by belthagor

[RyojinOrion]

why are you mentioning it then? Additionally I was totally serious, our 3 sentinels are as follows

 

1. ugly worm

2. uglier worm

3. a mini cardboard box colored in order to attempt to make up for what it is lacking and nicknamed "......cube''

 

Like it or not our pets need to be similar to, lets say.. the maplestory pets. For example you could program it to pick up obstacles for you, tired of not wanting the blue circle drops? Or only hunting for fusion cores and rare cards? toggle it so it wont pick up common/uncommon. If you want to increase the games popularity

 

You may all private message me if you want the link to our battle against dehydration which is kept seperate because of my respect for Ryojin.

I encourage you to post something I will love to read, just like everyone else did on it before. =)

 

When I say taking the thread seriously, I also mean keeping on the main topic of ways to give incentives for people to not rush, and excluding talking about things that do not do that. <.<

[belthagor]

When I say taking the thread seriously, I also mean keeping on the main topic of ways to give incentives for people to not rush, and excluding talking about things that do not do that. <.<

hmmm

 

would some pictures help?

 

kidding

 

You know what would remove rushing? if mobs had chances to drop keys, like kill a certain amount of the lowest character mob and you get a void key

Edited June 8, 2013 by belthagor

[RyojinOrion]

You know what would remove rushing? if mobs had chances to drop keys, like kill a certain amount of the lowest character mob and you get a void key

 

Another good idea to discuss! Thanks. :D

[belthagor]

you know what else would help?

 

A new weapon called Dual Reaper Prime

[RyojinOrion]

you know what else would help?

 

A new weapon called Dual Reaper Prime

 

 

Did you even think about what you are saying? That would do absolutely nothing to make people not rush.

 

Please do not post in this thread unless you are giving ideas for incentives for people to not rush or discussing such ideas that have already been listed. This is not a general idea thread.

[RyojinOrion]

Trying to come up with more ideas is starting to get difficult for me... Still welcoming any other ideas relating to this thread's point.

 

 

 

 

 

- Sector lockdown overrides. A special console somewhere off the main path that disables lockdowns in a certain amount of space for a certain amount of time. The harder to find, the better.

 

 

- Optional side-missions. Not to be confused with the current system of things like 'Kill 30 enemies' 'Get 5 kills while sliding' etc. I mean, something like having special hackable consoles scattered through the mission, and you get a reward if you hack em all. (Side-mission name: Gotta Hack 'em All!)

---- In addition, other such things that reveal more Warframe lore.

[mmSNAKE]

You know I laugh when I see people get excited about lore.

 

I mean no disrespect to DE or fans, but the story in here is terrible. It's fine though since game doesn't need a story to be great. In gameplay department this game shines more than a very large amount of games in past several years, but it's story lol.

 

Most games have a terrible story so it's fine. Though it's a bit incomprehensible when people get all giddy about a story that is lackluster. Maybe I just read too much, and developed very high standards for a narrative.

[RyojinOrion]

You know I laugh when I see people get excited about lore.

 

I mean no disrespect to DE or fans, but the story in here is terrible. It's fine though since game doesn't need a story to be great. In gameplay department this game shines more than a very large amount of games in past several years, but it's story lol.

 

Most games have a terrible story so it's fine. Though it's a bit incomprehensible when people get all giddy about a story that is lackluster. Maybe I just read too much, and developed very high standards for a narrative.

 

Who was getting excited about lore? I just added it to the list to give one more reason to explore the missions instead of just rushing to the end.

[mmSNAKE]

Who was getting excited about lore? I just added it to the list to give one more reason to explore the missions instead of just rushing to the end.

 

Didn't point anyone out, sorry if it came out that way. Just threw it out there.

[RyojinOrion]

It's all good. Perhaps I was being a bit overly defensive, also.

 

 

But more to the topic, do you have any ideas for giving reasons for players to explore, or ideas to expand on what has already been listed?

[mmSNAKE]

Personally I agree with a lot that was said in here. More things to do, more stuff to work for means longer game time.It's difficult to extrapolate from one idea to another.

 

In my opinion best bet would be to implement few smaller changes and see how it plays out. Ton of ideas can sound great on paper but end up bad in practice, also vice versa.

[RyojinOrion]

Personally I agree with a lot that was said in here. More things to do, more stuff to work for means longer game time.It's difficult to extrapolate from one idea to another.

 

In my opinion best bet would be to implement few smaller changes and see how it plays out. Ton of ideas can sound great on paper but end up bad in practice, also vice versa.

 

 

Yeah, I meant for the thread to be a list of such smaller changes to choose from rather than a bunch of changes to be implemented at the same time. Some ideas could work together, some couldn't, but it's open to discussion. :D

[Lactamid]

I think there could (should) be more "random" events like the Stalker. If you strolled around in a ship for to long, perhaps the crew had called for backup and some high-level Death-Squad would appear.
Being slow or rushing could enable the enemy to make barricades and enforce certain positions (ambush). Taking out the entire crew on a ship (lets just let the RNG-God come up with some random number of enemies that are acctually on a ship when you start - this number would be high) there would be a special reward or new objective - follow up mission.
I.e:

Lotus: You have gone far beyond the call of duty (no pun intended) on this one Tenno. The ship is cleared of all enemies and we can now commandier this vessel. Head to the bridge for further instructions.

@ bridge

Lotus: This vessel in en route to enforce the "X" forces on "Y". Use the ship to sneak into the "X" Space Station/Strong hold and set up explosives to destroy it.

Or:
Defense style: This ship is a high value resource ship, protect the cargo for X amount of time (gives resource award).

(to vary it from the other defense mission maybe this could be a map where you protect multiple locations and the enemy tries to destroy them (large cargo containers) with explosives/ gunfire. Depending on how good you are at protecting the cargo, the higher the end reward. You would be spread thin, killing units but also forced to sometimes deactivate bomb charges set at containers that would otherwise insta-destroy the container).

Or:
This mining facility is a secret Grineer cloning facility/ Corpus research lab. Venture into the hidden levels and search for "Z".

 

So - taking out the crew would give you a new mission. This could be direct or passive. Some missions might have to be done on the spot while others could be collected pretty much as the Void Keys.

Maybe there could be other ways to enter these sorts of missions to but this is just what I came up with right now.

 

Mini bosses and other attacking factions (goooo space pirates! https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/15939-suggestion-new-faction-space-pirates/)
 

Maybe if you were to sneak around, enemies would actaully speak to one another - though language might be a barrier - holo-projectors could be the answer!
Imagine you're sneaking up on some corpus derpman. He and his buddy Corpina are looking at some "corpus news" on their holo-projector.
Taking a screen shot or learning the in game alphabet could let you in on some upcoming game events or hint on secret locations/ maps.

Translate the text on the holo-program and you're good to go!
If you are spotted however the enemy will be on alert and NOT walk about watching the Holo-tube :)

Edited June 12, 2013 by Lactamid

[Mt_Mojo]

+1 from me!

[RyojinOrion]

I think there could (should) be more "random" events like the Stalker. If you strolled around in a ship for to long, perhaps the crew had called for backup and some high-level Death-Squad would appear.

 

That sounds more like a reason to not slow down. A lot of people don't want to get slaughtered, far more than the number of people who want more of a challenge.

 

 

So - taking out the crew would give you a new mission. This could be direct or passive. Some missions might have to be done on the spot while others could be collected pretty much as the Void Keys.

Maybe there could be other ways to enter these sorts of missions to but this is just what I came up with right now.

 

Added. :D

 

 

 

Mini bosses and other attacking factions (goooo space pirates! https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/15939-suggestion-new-faction-space-pirates/)

 

From time to time, there actually is more than one faction in a single level. It doesn't happen much, but I have seen it happen. Last time it was Infested and Corpus, and they did indeed battle each other. An expansion on this would be great. But how this would give an incentive to not rush is not clear to me. Perhaps if you could explain some more on that subject?

 

 

 

Maybe if you were to sneak around, enemies would actaully speak to one another - though language might be a barrier - holo-projectors could be the answer!

Imagine you're sneaking up on some corpus derpman. He and his buddy Corpina are looking at some "corpus news" on their holo-projector.

Taking a screen shot or learning the in game alphabet could let you in on some upcoming game events or hint on secret locations/ maps.

Translate the text on the holo-program and you're good to go!

If you are spotted however the enemy will be on alert and NOT walk about watching the Holo-tube :)

 

I like the idea of eavesdropping on enemies for information, but the holoprojector bit seems like it would be way more work than it is worth. It would make more sense for the enemies to speak to each other and just have their words automatically translated in subtitles, or Lotus could translate it for you, and explain what they were saying when they finish saying it. Either way, I added eavesdropping with either autotranslation or manual translation.

 

 

Thanks for the ideas! :D

[Lactamid]

That sounds more like a reason to not slow down. A lot of people don't want to get slaughtered, far more than the number of people who want more of a challenge.

Although there would probably be alot of people initially being afraid of some special engagement-enemies I think it could be implemented in a way that might "target" rushers a bit more than those left behind.

If a person would rush his or her rapid progress might be considdered a threat to the crew on the ship and they would try to slow you down. Perhaps the enemytype would change (compasition). Don't know what kind of enemies this could involve though. Could be on the "nerf" side of things but it's not meant to be. More of an actual tactic. Hinder the enemy - protect the ship.

Special team might have chances to drop other stuff too.

 

 

From time to time, there actually is more than one faction in a single level. It doesn't happen much, but I have seen it happen. Last time it was Infested and Corpus, and they did indeed battle each other. An expansion on this would be great. But how this would give an incentive to not rush is not clear to me. Perhaps if you could explain some more on that subject?

 

Minibosses like Derf Anyo (search for it) or other mini events would spice up exploring. This is on the same page as a secondary objective. There might be other things than YOU in the universe and things actually happening on the ship/astroid/outpost. There is a reason for the enemy to be there after all.

These "events" might not happen if you just follow the given path. There could be signs both obvious and subtle around the ship to hint that something more was happening. IF you explored you could end up doing quite the different mission then you expected.

I know there are sometimes battles between 2 factions, which is kinda fun :) I just wish there was a deeper aspect.

 

 

I like the idea of eavesdropping on enemies for information, but the holoprojector bit seems like it would be way more work than it is worth. It would make more sense for the enemies to speak to each other and just have their words automatically translated in subtitles, or Lotus could translate it for you, and explain what they were saying when they finish saying it. Either way, I added eavesdropping with either autotranslation or manual translation.

 

 

Thanks for the ideas! :D

 

Maybe the "holo-projector" could be in a room - like a briefing. This would be very rare and perhaps hint of world events (like the Fusion-MOA event) or some other stuff.

To add more to the games "make it your own warframe - be unique" maybe you could build a "translation device" and have it take a spot in the Gear-section? (Other things could be Hacking aids, grappling hooks, rebreather (for water maps) and what ever could fit it).

 

On second thought - those who don't have the translation device might still rush as they can't understand anything anyway. I'd just likte the gear to be expanded on. If you had a device it could how ever translate the texts on the walls and such things.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Lactamid

[RyojinOrion]

Although there would probably be alot of people initially being afraid of some special engagement-enemies I think it could be implemented in a way that might "target" rushers a bit more than those left behind.

If a person would rush his or her rapid progress might be considdered a threat to the crew on the ship and they would try to slow you down. Perhaps the enemytype would change (compasition). Don't know what kind of enemies this could involve though. Could be on the "nerf" side of things but it's not meant to be. More of an actual tactic. Hinder the enemy - protect the ship.

Special team might have chances to drop other stuff too.

 

I would rather have positive reinforcement for not rushing over consequences for rushing... But even so, what's to stop the rushers from rushing right past them? Either include an extremely unfair enemy stop completely stop rushers, which is not a good idea, IMO, or lockdowns, but that would serve to separate the team instead of bringing them together.

 

 

Minibosses like Derf Anyo (search for it) or other mini events would spice up exploring. This is on the same page as a secondary objective. There might be other things than YOU in the universe and things actually happening on the ship/astroid/outpost. There is a reason for the enemy to be there after all.

These "events" might not happen if you just follow the given path. There could be signs both obvious and subtle around the ship to hint that something more was happening. IF you explored you could end up doing quite the different mission then you expected.

 

Ah. Events idea added.

 

 

Maybe the "holo-projector" could be in a room - like a briefing. This would be very rare and perhaps hint of world events (like the Fusion-MOA event) or some other stuff.

To add more to the games "make it your own warframe - be unique" maybe you could build a "translation device" and have it take a spot in the Gear-section? (Other things could be Hacking aids, grappling hooks, rebreather (for water maps) and what ever could fit it).

 

On second thought - those who don't have the translation device might still rush as they can't understand anything anyway. I'd just likte the gear to be expanded on. If you had a device it could how ever translate the texts on the walls and such things.

 

 

While gear would give players some things to amuse themselves with in the missions, its appeal would last only so long before it would stop being useful for the purposes of this thread. I think that is better off in its own thread anyway. I've seen a few floating around already.

[Lactamid]

I would rather have positive reinforcement for not rushing over consequences for rushing... But even so, what's to stop the rushers from rushing right past them? Either include an extremely unfair enemy stop completely stop rushers, which is not a good idea, IMO, or lockdowns, but that would serve to separate the team instead of bringing them together.

I have some ideas, they might even encurage rushing but I'm gonna spew them out anyway.

In a Raid mission, perhaps as you get spotted the Artifact will be moved to a "safer location".

Pro: stealth would hinder the rushing part - moving the artifact might make the map "longer" (takes more time to get there).

Con: detection would trigger a "hunt" to (depending on how it's done) find either the new location or the "moving team".

 

On Spy or Deception missions perhaps there could be a higher requirment of team play. You would need to do things togheter.

There could be different "keys" unlocking certain doors. player 1 has the yellow key, player 2 the red one aso.

Maybe you would need to carry a Bomb, but it's heavy and you would need to be at least 2 players carrying it.

 

con: griefing retards!

[Enot83]

Someone who is fast and skilled like a great deal of us "rushers" will simply go through the level faster than slow people still, and still be complained about.

 

In the end, making a line from point A to B longer with more branches doesn't make a fast person slower, it just gives a greater distance for people to see the disparity between a fast and slow person.

 

Rewarding people for being an explorer would be about as effective as saying "if you can complete the mission in 1-2 minutes based on what tile sets were generated, you get extra rewards!"

 

In other words, I don't see this as being a solution so much as it just being more of a adding more to the game.  In the end, you will still have people barracaded behind private games, going through content faster.  Or still have mismatching where there are always people who go slower, take longer to reach ledges to get those rewards, and someone still sitting at the end of the map waiting.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Enot83

[RyojinOrion]

I have some ideas, they might even encurage rushing but I'm gonna spew them out anyway.

In a Raid mission, perhaps as you get spotted the Artifact will be moved to a "safer location".

Pro: stealth would hinder the rushing part - moving the artifact might make the map "longer" (takes more time to get there).

Con: detection would trigger a "hunt" to (depending on how it's done) find either the new location or the "moving team".

 

Interesting idea.

 

 

On Spy or Deception missions perhaps there could be a higher requirment of team play. You would need to do things togheter.

There could be different "keys" unlocking certain doors. player 1 has the yellow key, player 2 the red one aso.

Maybe you would need to carry a Bomb, but it's heavy and you would need to be at least 2 players carrying it.

 

con: griefing retards!

 

The cons seems to outweigh the pros in this case. It would screw over solo players and players who are alone in online mode, playing while waiting for others to join the session. Plus, it breaks flow artificially, which isn't something I am very fond of.

 

 

Someone who is fast and skilled like a great deal of us "rushers" will simply go through the level faster than slow people still, and still be complained about.

 

In the end, making a line from point A to B longer with more branches doesn't make a fast person slower, it just gives a greater distance for people to see the disparity between a fast and slow person.

 

Rewarding people for being an explorer would be about as effective as saying "if you can complete the mission in 1-2 minutes based on what tile sets were generated, you get extra rewards!"

 

In other words, I don't see this as being a solution so much as it just being more of a adding more to the game.  In the end, you will still have people barracaded behind private games, going through content faster.  Or still have mismatching where there are always people who go slower, take longer to reach ledges to get those rewards, and someone still sitting at the end of the map waiting.

 

 

I really don't want flow-halting roadblocks or negative consequences for rushing. That would do more harm than good, IMO. It is fun to rush sometimes, just to see how fast you can go from point A to point B. That's why there are so many speedrun videos for all kinds of games all over the internet. But... As far as I have seen, the main reason people rush in this game is because they don't get anything out of not rushing. This solution both increases game content and gives rushers more reasons to not rush. Win/win.

 

You're right, if someone is determined to rush, they can still rush... But I don't think that most people will want to rush if they can get more from not rushing.

Edited June 14, 2013 by RyojinOrion

[Enot83]

 

You're right, if someone is determined to rush, they can still rush... But I don't think that most people will want to rush if they can get more from not rushing.

 

Did you change the thread title btw? If so, I actually think I like where the thread and purpose of the thread is going a bit more that its to add incentives rather than incentives for 1 type of player model.

 

Also the determined to rush thing, I'm absolutely a rusher, however doing so effectively means having things like thiefs wit etc on so that you can move incredibly fast through a level while at the same time going for things when they are presented.  So having additional incentives or reasons to use mods that help in this fashion I generally welcome.  I remember that there was comments made about how 8.0 with the dojo and materials was meant to encourage exploration and slowing down on the levels, which I always laughed at thinking to myself, no Dojo 8.0 encourages players to setup their warframe mods to be more mini map aware as now picking up those materials has become useful.  In all, its maybe made levels for rushers like myself take 5-10% longer if even that.

 

That to say, having additional incentives and ways to make use of these mods that are more of the "tool" orientation than just beefing your shields up etc means, that now I have to decide between putting certain mods on or not, to take advantage of finding these incentives.

[RyojinOrion]

Did you change the thread title btw? If so, I actually think I like where the thread and purpose of the thread is going a bit more that its to add incentives rather than incentives for 1 type of player model.

 

Nope, the thread title is the same now as it was when the thread was created. The thread has always been about incentives for teamplay, killing enemies, and exploring. Incentives to not rush. I originally just came up with incentives to help teammates, but as I was typing the original post, it expanded into incentives to not rush in general.

 

 

Also the determined to rush thing, I'm absolutely a rusher, however doing so effectively means having things like thiefs wit etc on so that you can move incredibly fast through a level while at the same time going for things when they are presented.  So having additional incentives or reasons to use mods that help in this fashion I generally welcome.  I remember that there was comments made about how 8.0 with the dojo and materials was meant to encourage exploration and slowing down on the levels, which I always laughed at thinking to myself, no Dojo 8.0 encourages players to setup their warframe mods to be more mini map aware as now picking up those materials has become useful.  In all, its maybe made levels for rushers like myself take 5-10% longer if even that.

 

That to say, having additional incentives and ways to make use of these mods that are more of the "tool" orientation than just beefing your shields up etc means, that now I have to decide between putting certain mods on or not, to take advantage of finding these incentives.

 

When I say rusher, I generally mean those who skip the game's content and leave teammates behind. Those who join missions just to get to the end as quickly as possible while ignoring every single thing that might slow them at all, like killing enemies, opening containers, or helping teammates. If you do kill enemies, open containers, and help teammates, I wouldn't call you a rusher, even if you are going at a faster than average rate. But that's just my opinion on what rushing means. :D

Edited June 14, 2013 by RyojinOrion

[Lactamid]

Someone who is fast and skilled like a great deal of us "rushers" will simply go through the level faster than slow people still...

I totally agree with this. I don't want a game with only the slowest and tankiest frames being favoured "beacause they're slow". And of course you should absolutely be able to rush if you want to.

The emphasis is "team play", Sticking with the team should be benificial. How to do this? I'm sorry but i can't say. I have some ideas that I'll voice but I'll also accept critique.

What you said about skill is so true. A player that has good gear, high parkour skills, good aim and a general "feel for the game" should not be punished for being faster (=more efficient). The point again is the name of the topic - things that improve the gameplay, not nerfs and things that seem unnatural.

As people have said before, a better lobby with "player type" info would be really good. To keep the lvls more balanced perhaps matching player gear-lvls would yield more exp/ better loot-tables and a higher chance for micro events to accur.

Now we have players with unranked warframes/weapons joining lvl 30-40 maps and just leacing the F out of other players. One guy has 75% damage and kills. The others still finds this sort of gameplay the most rewarding.

 

A bit off topic but:

It would be really cool to see the frames actual "core abilities" being put to use in a more utility type fashion.

To cross a gorge Mag could use "pull" to drag down a make do bridge. She could pull hard to get cannisters, break catwalks enemies use to gain high gound... Alternate paths in general:

Frost could freeze a door shut for a while. Ember could redirect the flames of a burning room making a passable tunnel.

...leading back somewhat to the topic

 

Giving the warframes things to do on specific maps would make players want to see what they could do in the team they played in right "now".

Tactics for making the most out of each map. Some more secret rooms to try to get to collaberating using different skills.

 

 

The cons seems to outweigh the pros in this case. It would screw over solo players and players who are alone in online mode, playing while waiting for others to join the session. Plus, it breaks flow artificially, which isn't something I am very fond of.

 

I was thinking that if you were alone there would just be something that you could carry yourself. It might be slightly different from the multiplayer mission.