List Reasons Why You Support/disapprove Of The Cooldown

[Mietz]

So what exactly did the patch fix?

 

It didn't stop or disincentivize rushing.

It didn't make the game harder.

It didn't improve player synergy.

It didn't change the approach to combat.

...

[SnokyoDrift]

It's very simple. The change nerfs slow frames more than fast frames.

 

edit: also doesn't reduce rushing at all.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Tryysaeder

[Enomilli]

This did not take care of rushers...

 

They just took out what made the game fun for the sake of casual players...

 

If this stays...then many players wont stay...

[Unibot]

Reason why cooldown is bad

1) I loose a lot of mobility

2) I loose variety of movement

3) I loose variety of combat(I used slide jumps death from above as an opening strike to far enemies)

3) I can still leave behind rhino and turtle players by just sprinting with my loki

4) I will do it now often just to piss slow players and those who supported this change(Yes my priority of pug gameplay is rushing now)

 

Reason why cooldown is good

NONE

[Caiman]

Bad:

- Rushers will just bring their zorens and fly. Or spam Slash Dash with continuity. Or Speed. Or tack Rush on a Loki/Ash. Or...

- Forces players to use specific frames and mods, or weapons and mods to achieve "rushing"/"decent" speed, creating tradeoffs for it.

- "Legitimate" fast movement methods like wallrunning aren't nearly as versatile, flexible or user-friendly in practice. And they'd be slower if it weren't for the wallrun-jump speed boost, which may not be "intended" for fast travel, just like the slide speed boost.

- Further alienate rushers and non-rushers because it's even harder to keep up without the right build, and thus limits the build options for non-rushers as well.

 

Good:

- Makes it easier to aim guns for slide kills since you're reduced to walking speed. Seriously though, I can't think of anything.

 

But see, DE might think "if it doesn't affect rushing, why do you care?"

It's important to emphasize that the alternatives are clunkier, reduce player choice and overall reduce player enjoyment, but players will still resort to them, since the alternative (going slow) will kill their enjoyment even more.

 

P.S. I think you should just make a giant sub-heading listing all the reasons why rushing wouldn't be "fixed", instead of listing them as separate "Bad"s. Like:

 

- It doesn't prevent or slow rushing.

    - I've tested this personally, and I am still able to easily rush ahead of most players.(RyojinOrion)

    - A Loki with a Rush mods will still outrun you and outkill you.(Butyllithium)

    - An Ash or Loki could easily speedrun STILL. (fallouthirteen)

    - The cooldown does not stop rushers it only makes it a little harder for them.(Tetsmeha)

 

Just to emphasize that there's a whole bunch of arguments behind "this doesn't stop rushing", and pretty much none behind "this stops rushing".

 

Off topic:

 

I've heard it suggested before and I liked the suggestion, show people's mastery levels on the forum. I wouldn't much respect balance and nerf recommendations from someone who's only Mastery 1 or 2 since it shows how little they've tried out in the game.

 

Or, DE may want to put more weight in the opinions of low mastery players, even the expense of higher mastery players.

Having a bad early game experience would be bad for player retention (and keeping players on long enough to maximize chances of plat spending), so improving early game impressions would be the bigger priority.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Caiman

[SymphNo9]

They should fix the slide+attack infinite combo, instead of punishing all the other movement combos during the attempt to do so.

 

Also, with the hotfix it directly discourage you to use slow warframes to farm and explore the maps. Why spend the extra 15min to look for those few extra lockers when you could have farmed a boss in the meantime with said warframe?

[0shi]

This is a completely unbiased list, you can tell by the way you haven't made the same point with slight variations on theme multiple times in the against column. Oh, wait.

You can reduce your against column to:

- Doesn't slow people down much

- Does slow people down

- Lowers skill ceiling

The point about Ash an Loki being better speedrunners than other frames can be discarded as working as intended.

The point about forum complaints an annoyance... Doesn't seem relevant to me. If you feel a design has to change to improve your game, you should change it. Leave it in if you want.

And you should add to the positive column:

- Stops people looking silly

- Removes an unnecessary learning element from the game (why should new players have to learn a specialised way of MOVING IN A STRAIGHT LINE?)

Edited June 8, 2013 by 0shi

[Cestus]

There is nothing more to sprinting than pressing shift. The player is not encouraged to be creative with figuring out different routes to get to point A to point B since I'm fairly sure that they will remove more ways of around.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Cestus

[SynisterDoom]

aye, the movement nerf is pretty useless and just an inconvience, no hate to the dev's though, still love you guys :3  honest mistake! i think that we can all agree that the community kinda blew this out of proportion ^^" seriously O-O some of the threads are really nasty and stuff :c poor dev's dont deserve that

[ZWarhammer]

Reason why cooldown is bad

1) I loose a lot of mobility

2) I loose variety of movement

3) I loose variety of combat(I used slide jumps death from above as an opening strike to far enemies)

3) I can still leave behind rhino and turtle players by just sprinting with my loki

4) I will do it now often just to &!$$ slow players and those who supported this change(Yes my priority of pug gameplay is rushing now)

 

Reason why cooldown is good

NONE

We are boycotting this idea by doing exactly that. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/61276-smooth-movement-ruined-completely-update-rant/

[Cerebrawl]

Reasons why the Cooldown is Good

-less people will Rush

-people will actually fight together in a group rather than going separate ways

-It's more realistic

- No they won't - It's a non-solution, they'll still rush. Slightly slower maybe, but now catching up to them will be even harder.

- No they won't - It's a non-solution, rushers will rush, turtles will drag &#!.

- As opposed to what? Not being a power armored space ninja?

 

All it does is slow down everyone. Slower rushers sure, also slower turtles, and slower middle of the road, slower everyone. Again, it's a non-solution.

 

If there was an exploit where you could attack while sliding and then continue without diminished speed, then the solution should be to give you a pause/cooldown if you attacked when you were sliding, and not otherwise.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Cerebrawl

[Enomilli]

- No they won't - It's a non-solution, they'll still rush. Slightly slower maybe, but now catching up to them will be even harder.

- No they won't - It's a non-solution, rushers will rush, turtles will drag &#!.

- As opposed to what? Not being a power armored space ninja?

 

All it does is slow down everyone. Slower rushers sure, also slower turtles, and slower middle of the road, slower everyone. Again, it's a non-solution.

 

If there was an exploit where you could attack while sliding and then continue without diminished speed, then the solution should be to give you a pause/cooldown if you attacked when you were sliding, and not otherwise.

Basically what he is saying is...

 

DE merely made a lateral move...

[Meltina]

Bad: Ruins playstyle of slide ninja flipping while still doing nothing to stop rushers.

Also did not fix zoren boosting so rushers can go faster than helicoptering just with less control.

[Namacyst]

I will still rush but slower.

 

DE tried to counter the exploiting of knife-skating but if Zoren still works they should start banning people so they learn.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Namacyst

[ragdollomega]

First three are considered together, a nerf should at least do one of three things to be possibly valid (which it doesn't)

1) Doesn't solve any issues that were present pre-nerf.

2) Doesn't make a change players enjoy.

3) Goes against "Space Ninja" image which devs hold as the clear image of this game.

 

4) Pre-nerf was actually 'realistic'.

For the last one, hear me out. With the character capabilities as they are, it makes perfect sense. They are able to wall run, have unbelievable endurance with only short seconds long breaks in between intense activities, and can leap incredible distances from almost any position. This means that they have to have god-like leg strength. So for a move like a slide-flip-slide, the position we slide in is perfect. The ninja uses the leg under the butt to begin the jump, while the front leg is used as a pivot point in order to increase velocity and cause a small speed boost. Being that the ninja is likely trained to such an extent throughout the rest of their body, they should have the muscles to change pose mid-air and hold it until they reach the ground with little effort. This allows them to rest the leg muscles that they just used to propel them forward. With such a short overall rest time, this allows the ninja to be ready to do the move again rather quickly with the same ample leg strength as before. Having suits that apparently reduce friction on any surface area while having incredible grip under the feet also helps.

 

Also, for sliding speed boost, changes in positions of moving objects can and does increase velocity. So basically, sliding should always lead to being at least slightly faster than running during the initial change in position.

[KALUHS]

this in no way stops any1 from rushing, if ur the guy who opens every locker/container kill every single mob, ur going to always be behind evey1 at all times.

 

I do not ever plan to wait for those who can't keep up and kill my time in this life.

 

only way to keep every1 together is to make the game HARD, meaning u stay together or DiE. Simple isnt it

Edited June 8, 2013 by KALUHS

[Phaenur]

Reasons why the Cooldown is Bad

 

-This game has been advertised as "space ninja" game, hence it should focus on improving fluidity of movement rather than decreasing it(Butyllithium)

-The update is unnecessary. An Ash or Loki could easily speedrun STILL. (fallouthirteen)

This, basically.  I mainly run a Loki (I want to get Vaubon drops so badly but they only ever show up when I don't have the time) but I still prefer to explore - in fact, my extreme mobility makes that easier instead of harder because I can duck into a treasure room, flag interesting things for the squad, and get back into the fight before anyone knows I'm gone.  I can still do that, since I never used the helicopter or slide-jump loop to boost my speed, and I'll almost definitely come out at the end before anyone else does just because I can maneuver so much more easily on that 'frame.  My friend's Rhino is almost always two rooms behind us, and that's in a private non-rushing game, the simple product of having two Ashes, a Loki, and a poor bastard stuck in the heavyweight.

 

No, really the only way this impacts me is in the "coolness" factor.  I used to do slide-jump-slides up stairways both to avoid lag getting me stuck and simply because it looks awesome, but that's out now.  Ditto for crossing rooms - I'd try the speed-boost version from time to time just to see if I could do it.  It was never about getting ahead of anyone else; that really isn't the point in this sort of game.

 

So I agree with the people whose playstyle makes me tear my hair out - this wasn't a good move from my point of view.  My reasons are different, and I'd still like to find some balance of incentives, timers, puzzles, and communication mechanics that let groups rush or prowl together or at least play to their own individual styles without feeling murderous, but this really wasn't the right way to go about fixing any of the problems.  Even from the loophole-closing side, the same thing could be done by simply not allowing stamina regen mid-slide (you're not moving, but you're holding a very awkward position, and that's almost always harder) or any number of other tweaks to stop the worst abuses of the mechanic while still making its "valid" uses fully functional.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Phaenur

[Pixues]

The cooldown is good.

 

And this is not a bout advantages and disadvantages. 

This is about how the game is supposed to be played and not supposed to be played. 

 

This is part of a progress of polishing their movement system. 

[fallouthirteen]

The cooldown is good.

 

And this is not a bout advantages and disadvantages. 

This is about how the game is supposed to be played and not supposed to be played. 

 

This is part of a progress of polishing their movement system. 

Part of progress can be noticing a glitch that the players like and adopting it into a full on feature. See the many other games that did that. Progress isn't fighting against the player base, it's making your game fun.

[aerokiss]

how does this stop rushing? honestly de you can't solve all your "problems" by nerfing everything..

 

slow players are now SLOWER and rushers are even more determined to rush now that you've stripped something away from them like some kind of dictatorship..

[Batwing]

Funny story i got into a game as rhino and it was a bit laggy so i get to Hek (it was a Hek assassination alert) and all my teammates get downed i was able to get one up just cause he was right next to me but i couldn't get the others cause i couldn't get to them fast enough.So 2 people had to use their revives because my rhino was slower due to some half witted nerf that supposedly "fixed a glitch" and "stopped rushers".

[Pourvoir]

I don't think realism should be in a pros column, it should be in the cons section.  I don't play games for realism.  If I wanted that I'd go play cod but if I wanted to be a cod person I'd just join the military and get to shoot real guns.  2 words, space . . . ninja.  You can keep your realism.

[Pourvoir]

The cooldown is good.

 

And this is not a bout advantages and disadvantages. 

This is about how the game is supposed to be played and not supposed to be played. 

 

This is part of a progress of polishing their movement system. 

 

All I think of when I read posts like this is manifest destiny and neo-nazism.  PLAY OUR WAY OR DIE!

[Excitonex]

how does this stop rushing? honestly de you can't solve all your "problems" by nerfing everything..

 

slow players are now SLOWER and rushers are even more determined to rush now that you've stripped something away from them like some kind of dictatorship..

This is very true. I'm not unequipping my dual Zorens until this is fixed. You don't just ruin your movement system to make a portion of your player base happy while alienating the other side. If speed and mobility continue to be limited I'm going to be looking elsewhere for ninja fun.

[ToeSama]

The stamina system is completely counter intuitive to the games fast paced sales pitch to begin with as it is implemented right now. The cool down only makes it worse. I'm of the mind that Stamina should only affect air attacks, wall run and other parkour related movement aspects. Simply running from one point of the map to another shouldn't be such a chore in a game that is suppose to be about speed in part.

Movement needs a major overhaul, and Stamina needs to be rethought in what function it serves. What we've got now is even worse of a grind than before.