Bow Users Are Widely Considered A Liability To The Team Due To Their Ineffectiveness In Direct Combat. Why Not Buff Their Handling?

[SnokyoDrift]

Hopefully, we can all agree that bows are very fun weapons. Just because they have stealth capabilities doesn't mean that they need to be completely outclassed by nearly every single weapon.

 

I think the biggest problem with them at the moment is that their target acquisition time is far too long, and alleviating this problem is not possible without sacrificing a vital mod slot.

Without Speed Trigger, it takes about 0.4 seconds to nock the arrow plus a whopping 1.0 second to draw the string back. My great grandmother could draw a bowstring in less time than that.  The reload time should stay, as it would look stupid otherwise, but the draw speed is excruciatingly slow and should be reduced. A maxed Speed Trigger results in a draw time of 0.625 seconds, which feels much better and gives a true "1 shot per second" rate of fire.

 

Therefore I propose that the draw time on the bows be lowered to ~0.60 seconds to improve their handling and combat effectiveness.

 

edit:
This too. Damage should scale with draw time, and the sound and animation should certainly scale with draw time.

 

Another thing is that a half-drawn shot should do more damage than a shot with no draw on it. There should be scaling throughout the whole draw, instead it just being either 0 or 100% with no in-between.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Tryysaeder

[Nyller]

Especially Dread.

 

And i approve this +1

[CharlesSnippy]

With a little skill, you can kill just as fast as any other weapon. It's just a harder to use weapon than most. Still, I'm up for any bow buffs. So plus one from me.

[.Fyr.]

+1

[Enomilli]

As a Paris/Dread user I support this...

[Catharsis25]

Hopefully, we can all agree that bows are very fun weapons. Just because they have stealth capabilities doesn't mean that they need to be completely outclassed by nearly every single weapon.

 

I think the biggest problem with them at the moment is that their target acquisition time is far too long, and alleviating this problem is not possible without sacrificing a vital mod slot.

Without Speed Trigger, it takes about 0.4 seconds to nock the arrow plus a whopping 1.0 second to draw the string back. My great grandmother could draw a bowstring in less time than that.  The reload time should stay, as it would look stupid otherwise, but the draw speed is excruciatingly slow and should be reduced. A maxed Speed Trigger results in a draw time of 0.625 seconds, which feels much better and gives a true "1 shot per second" rate of fire.

 

Therefore I propose that the draw time on the bows be lowered to ~0.60 seconds to improve their handling and combat effectiveness.

 

Agreed. As someone with experience in archery, the bow draw time does feel pretty slow, but I wouldn't want it to be too fast since that would feel weird, too. Another thing is that a half-drawn shot should do more damage than a shot with no draw on it. There should be scaling throughout the whole draw, instead it just being either 0 or 100% with no in-between.

[DChaos]

Or make a new mod that reduce the time to charge the arrow, this could work and its not everyone that is willing to sacrifice a mod slot therefor you will have two kind of bow users, the faster but lower damage and the slower but higher damage. Remember this is a game of customization, having the option to shoot arrows that deal lower damage but at a faster rate or shoot high damage arrow at a slower rate in my opinion should be in the game but I guess most weapon change have to be very carefully studied to not have something like that happen again (*cough* shotguns, gorgon *cough*)

[SnokyoDrift]

Another thing is that a half-drawn shot should do more damage than a shot with no draw on it. There should be scaling throughout the whole draw, instead it just being either 0 or 100% with no in-between.

 

I completely forgot about this. It's been asked for a million times so I hope they're working on it, but I"ll include it in the OP.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Tryysaeder

[Prepoznator]

Yup totally agreed.

[sleepy]

Hell, as long as it's not a nerf i pretty much support anything :)

[Dude_on_the_Moon]

+1

[LunarWind]

But it isn't a bow, it doesn't use a string.

It's technically some sort of railgun, that uses magnetic fields to propel solid spear-like slugs.

So, I dunno, science?

 

Maybe the magnetic field doesn't reach full stability until it's 100% charged?

Maybe it takes that long to charge a capacitor to then then instantly dump the energy into the accelerators?

That would explain not having any effect until fully charged, you charge the capacitor from reserves, not the field itself, possibly to avoid tearing off your hands.

 

I dunno, but they clearly stated that it is not a traditional bow, and does not use a string or cable to fire projectiles.

[Phoenix86]

I still dont know which one of the 2 bows is the best one honestly...

[Fleischkloppa]

what the hell?

 

The Bows are extremely good in their respective niches, meaning Paris for grineer and Dread for infested - They are even better than most other weapons in those niches.If you want to draw your bow faster, use speed trigger.

 

If you become good at aiming with these things it just goes pewpew oneshot oneshot on all the normal mobs up to a high level.

[Fsac]

I'm not even sure where to begin on this one, so I'll just start from the top... the subject.

The bows a liability in direct combat?  Okay, yeah, kinda.  They fill a different niche than a lot of the other weapons.  You wouldn't try to snipe with a Strun, or take your Gorgon into an Exterminate mission... so why assume that all bow users use their bows for everything?  The bows should be paired with warframes and weapons that can highlight their strong points, as well as downplay their weaknesses.  In my case, I use Dual Broncos for "direct combat" and thrown weapons for adding a ton of versatility to my mid-range.

 

Are bows bad because they can't take out a dozen enemies inside 5 seconds?  Hardly.  That's what warframe abilities are for, or at the very least, alternate weapons.

 

And what is so wrong with Speed Trigger actually being useful to the thing?  I'm sorry, but I don't think the defacto loadout for every gun should be Split Chamber + Serration + Piercing Hit + Hellfire + Cryo Rounds + Stormbringer + Beer + Popcorn.  This is especially true for the bows, as using some of those mods greatly hinders your ability to preform multi-kills.  I use Speed Trigger and Fast Hands on my bows without a second thought or regret in the world.

 

I don't hear people complaining in defense missions when bow users are sniping enemies out of high cover, or key enemies out from the back lines well before they can reach the group, or stuck mobs from half the map away.  Please don't let the stubborn few who refuse to switch weapons make the whole of us look bad.

Edited June 9, 2013 by fsac

[Ferriwind]

Lower the charge time and quicken the arrow nocking. Also more ammo and better stun based on area struck. Disclaimer: My opinion :p

 

Seriously, idk why the Kunai is so superior to the Paris.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Stygi

[JadsiaDax]

Maybe keep bows the way they are but allow standard movement while notching arrows, and a slight speed boost to all frames using a bow. (They are a lot lighter after all!)

[Powet]

+1, Paris user here.

[mmSNAKE]

Speed trigger shortens draw time. Fast Hands shortens how long it takes to notch the arrow.

 

On low level enemies yeah people with automatics and good aim will outperform you. On very high levels they wont because they will have to empty out a magazine or more while you can kill in one shot.

 

Keep in mind with proper modding it's possible to get over 10k damage on a weak spot with Dread on lv 100 enemies.

Edited June 9, 2013 by mmSNAKE

[Estred]

+1 to the damage scale during draw, though I feel it is there. I do very well with my Dread though as I almost always land headshots and almost always get weak-spots (Dread is my Banshee's weapons).

 

I wouldn't use Fast-Hands on Dread the .4 seconds is not going to be reduced much by it and it does eat up a mod-slot. Speed-Trigger though is VERY important for a good Dread/Paris user.

[MalusCalibur]

I don't feel the bows need any buffs - certainly my experiences with Dread have not left me feeling it was lacking in any way.

[Atlas_Smirked]

But it isn't a bow, it doesn't use a string.

It's technically some sort of railgun, that uses magnetic fields to propel solid spear-like slugs.

So, I dunno, science?

 

Maybe the magnetic field doesn't reach full stability until it's 100% charged?

Maybe it takes that long to charge a capacitor to then then instantly dump the energy into the accelerators?

That would explain not having any effect until fully charged, you charge the capacitor from reserves, not the field itself, possibly to avoid tearing off your hands.

 

I dunno, but they clearly stated that it is not a traditional bow, and does not use a string or cable to fire projectiles.

That's not how capacitors work-they're not all or nothing. Capacitors can hold 'partial' charges too.

[sambarpowder]

By personal experience I can say it's a good idea to put crit mods on the dread. Screw thunderbolt, I oneshot T3 void heavy gunners regularly. With a maxed point strike and vital sense, dread will crit more often than not and deal huge overkill. It's definitely worth the slots.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Crossflip

[Hueminator]

Just make Thunderbolt damage scale with mod, might have to decrease its base damage to balance out I guess.

[Kuhrasu]

+1 The problem isn't it's killing power, both bows go to a 50% crit chance with mods, which is insane for its overall damage output. The problem is that you can only kill one target at a time (bar thunderbolt, but it's really really weak anyway). Other "sniping" weapons allow you to switch between targets rather quickly, while the bows are really sluggish in that regard, a slight increase in either charge or reload speed would allow you to aqcuire targets faster and keep up with the more user friendly weapons.