Is Saryn really balanced?.

[Machayna]

I had saryn on a 60 minute T3 S yesterday.  She's pretty good.  Brozime was trying to show her damage capability with just her skills straight up.  He mentions that his build is set up simply to prove a point and in no way is meant to be a viable build in game.  I agree that there should be something done with miasma if they don't change the armor scaling.  Then they should maybe look at giving her miasma corrosive procs.  It already does corrosive damage so it wouldn't be too far off.  Ultimately just needs something to get past the armor a bit or at least make it weaker.  If they don't want to change the armor scaling then they should really go back and retune quite a few of the frame powers to handle armor better.

[blaes]

15 minutes ago, Nesisphira said:

For the rest, it's ok for me, maybe toxic lash should be for the ranged weapons aswell, but the main effect MUST NOT be changed

nope thanks. the only thing toxic lash needs is for the damage reduction to always be active while the ability is on, even when not blocking (like exalted blade's damage reduction works).

 

 

as for miasma, if you really want to buff it, make it pop all spores in range. or like one spore on every enemy in range per miasma tick. something like that anyway. that'll be more than enough to make it a crazy nuke.

but imo, what saryn needs isnt more damage, it's more survivability. the possibility of using naramon focus when you pretty much reach endgame isnt a reason for being so frail before that.

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

4 minutes ago, blaes said:

nope thanks. the only thing toxic lash needs is for the damage reduction to always be active while the ability is on, even when not blocking (like exalted blade's damage reduction works).

 

 

as for miasma, if you really want to buff it, make it pop all spores in range. or like one spore on every enemy in range per miasma tick. something like that anyway. that'll be more than enough to make it a crazy nuke.

but imo, what saryn needs isnt more damage, it's more survivability. the possibility of using naramon focus when you pretty much reach endgame isnt a reason for being so frail before that.

Every warframe have to use Naramon in endgame, or a blessing trinity or a Valkyr, that's all.

So should we buff every warframe survivability?

[blaes]

"every warframe" isn't meant to go melee. saryn is. and if she wants to go melee before the player unlocks second dream and focus abilities, she's basically gonna die.

take a look at other melee-oriented frames : for instance, excalibur has radial blind and damage reduction in exalted blade, chroma has vex armor and elemental ward, inaros has pocket sand and massive health pool with plenty of heals. plenty of damage reduction and/or crowd control.

saryn has molt, which dies real quick, and sub-par damage reduction in toxic lash. i'm just asking for toxic lash to get decent protection capability.

[Machayna]

4 minutes ago, blaes said:

as for miasma, if you really want to buff it, make it pop all spores in range. or like one spore on every enemy in range per miasma tick. something like that anyway. that'll be more than enough to make it a crazy nuke.

Huh.  I thought it already did that.  I'll have to check into it. 

8 minutes ago, blaes said:

"every warframe" isn't meant to go melee. saryn is. and if she wants to go melee before the player unlocks second dream and focus abilities, she's basically gonna die.

take a look at other melee-oriented frames : for instance, excalibur has radial blind and damage reduction in exalted blade, chroma has vex armor and elemental ward, inaros has pocket sand and massive health pool with plenty of heals. plenty of damage reduction and/or crowd control.

saryn has molt, which dies real quick, and sub-par damage reduction in toxic lash. i'm just asking for toxic lash to get decent protection capability.

You don't need focus to survive with her in melee so I'll disagree with her needing the skills from a focus tree to survive with melee only.  I didn't put any points into focus trees until just a few days ago.  Went with zenurik for some extra energy for Saryn which is very helpful.  Saryn's molt with regen molt augment dies too fast.....yeah it does.  Not going to disagree there.  However if you're using it as a way to regen health then place it around a corner before charging in and that helps quite a bit for it surviving.  If you're up against infested then no problems.  Bullet jump up and put it just out of reach of most of them.

[Ayalis]

16 minutes ago, blaes said:

"every warframe" isn't meant to go melee. saryn is. and if she wants to go melee before the player unlocks second dream and focus abilities, she's basically gonna die.

take a look at other melee-oriented frames : for instance, excalibur has radial blind and damage reduction in exalted blade, chroma has vex armor and elemental ward, inaros has pocket sand and massive health pool with plenty of heals. plenty of damage reduction and/or crowd control.

saryn has molt, which dies real quick, and sub-par damage reduction in toxic lash. i'm just asking for toxic lash to get decent protection capability.

Well like I said, her problem seems to specifically be molt, it's a negative thing no matter how you look at her. It encourages a play style at low level where you build duration sit there and spore your molt which is fine but seems kind of "narrow minded" (see what I did there). If her 2 was replaced then something more impactful would be possibly be that it consumes the spores to have them release noxious gasses that could do one of a few things or anything, something like embers 2 where they dance around for a bit in this case choke for a bit? I personally believe what Saryn is missing is what most other DoT classes in other games have which is a health drain ability. Likewise I think popping spores should energy drain to Saryn as part of spore.

 

Obviously the downside to popping the spores and being able to heal from it with this replacement for molt would be that Miasma would do less damage but ya win some ya lose some. I'd think those two changes would encourage a melee play style with her going into upper levels. Of course she'd still have to be careful around mobs that cancel abilities but it also wouldn't make her so mod hungry. Right now Saryn is the only frame where I HAD to use the eximus slot to finish her build XD. Not complaining though, only suggesting perspectives. 

[Machayna]

17 hours ago, blaes said:

as for miasma, if you really want to buff it, make it pop all spores in range. or like one spore on every enemy in range per miasma tick. something like that anyway. that'll be more than enough to make it a crazy nuke.

Went through and confirmed that.  Yes Miasma already pops all spores in range.  

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Saryn/Abilities

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

She is can do great amount damage, but if its damage you are looking for, why you ever even consider something else than radial finish+ exalted blade excalibur, ash or nova. Hard to top those, in fact they cant be topped. She is balanced.

Edited March 22, 2016 by (PS4)SofeSNBR

[RealPandemonium]

56 minutes ago, Machayna said:

Went through and confirmed that.  Yes Miasma already pops all spores in range.  

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Saryn/Abilities

Where does it say that Miasma pops all spores in range?  It does not.  

[IamTheSparta]

18 hours ago, blaes said:

"every warframe" isn't meant to go melee. saryn is. and if she wants to go melee before the player unlocks second dream and focus abilities, she's basically gonna die.

take a look at other melee-oriented frames : for instance, excalibur has radial blind and damage reduction in exalted blade, chroma has vex armor and elemental ward, inaros has pocket sand and massive health pool with plenty of heals. plenty of damage reduction and/or crowd control.

saryn has molt, which dies real quick, and sub-par damage reduction in toxic lash. i'm just asking for toxic lash to get decent protection capability.

You dont have to melee with saryn before the endgame, you can basically kill everything with each skill of her set without dying.
And in endgame, you are supposed to be geared with the focus trees.

[Machayna]

37 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Where does it say that Miasma pops all spores in range?  It does not.  

Ah crud.  Sorry man.  I had too many windows open last night and just copied the wrong one.  I found a ton of posts that all said that all spores pop on miasma.  This one below is a good example.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=552452687

In addition to that I went into the simulacrum and spawned some infested (lvl 70 so they could take a hit).  Spread spores, set up a molt and then popped miasma.  The spores that were showing up on enemies went away on my screen which I am assuming means that they were popped.  I had to reapply spores.  Did this multiple times just to test it.  I did also just read though that molt pops spores.  That's in that wiki entry.  "When Molt explodes, all spores will burst simultaneously and infect enemies within the spread radius. Molt's explosion can also detonate spores on nearby infected enemies.".  I didn't see that until just now and that might have actually been what was causing it as I almost always have a molt up.  I'll have to test out some more stuff tonight.

I apologize for the confusion.

 

[RealPandemonium]

Just now, Machayna said:

Ah crud.  Sorry man.  I had too many windows open last night and just copied the wrong one.  I found a ton of posts that all said that all spores pop on miasma.  This one below is a good example.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=552452687

In addition to that I went into the simulacrum and spawned some infested (lvl 70 so they could take a hit).  Spread spores, set up a molt and then popped miasma.  The spores that were showing up on enemies went away on my screen which I am assuming means that they were popped.  I had to reapply spores.  Did this multiple times just to test it.  I did also just read though that molt pops spores.  That's in that wiki entry.  "When Molt explodes, all spores will burst simultaneously and infect enemies within the spread radius. Molt's explosion can also detonate spores on nearby infected enemies.".  I didn't see that until just now and that might have actually been what was causing it as I almost always have a molt up.  I'll have to test out some more stuff tonight.

I apologize for the confusion.

 

Accountability is sorely lacking on this forum.  It's good to see someone making an effort to keep the record straight.