Since saryn's rework is getting a revisit(eventually). Let's talk about her current problems and how to fix them without knee-jerk buffs

[ThatOddDeer]

Let's start in order of abilties

1: spore

For a first ability, this is arguably one of the strongest in the game. Cut the HP of nearly everything on the map for 25 energy alongside a pitiful DoT and the ability to transfer the highest toxin proc on the target to other enemies when a spore is popped. 

Other than changing how toxin procs are transferred by spore so that they take the cumulative value of all toxin procs on the target to the surrounding enemies this ability is perfect for what it does.

 

2. Molt

With regenerative molt, an amazing healing tool that lets you run something other than lifestrike on your melee to recover hp. 

Without the augment this ability is a bad at its intended job. It dies too quickly to draw aggro, it's aggro range is small and doesn't seem to scale with range.

The ability to place spores on it for a discount and the forced toxin proc on all nearby enemies is solid but with how toxin procs work with spore it's often wasted when you consider a toxin delivering gun will be prioritized for spore-toxin spreading.

To change it for the better, we could institute a passive similar to snowglobe/tectonics/iron skin where for the first 2-4 seconds molt can NOT die. How it would be different is that it still takes damage until it has 1 hp left, and sits at that value until the invulnerability timer is up upon which it will die and explode, fulfilling its offensive purpose.

3. Toxic lash

Other than the aforementioned problem with toxin procs and spore this ability only has 1 thematic weakness and a few spore related bugs/weaknesses.

For the thematic aspect, a lash a whip. Something associated with range. Although not necessary, shifting the ability to a range boost might be a cool addition that fits saryn's theme of debuff spreading melee frame.

Onto the mechanical bugs/weaknesses. Toxic lash will only give 1 instance of energy regen if you kill a fully spored enemy with a melee, rather than all 3 being popped. Additionally, you can't block AND melee at the same time, so you can only ever use half the buffs provided by toxic lash at any given moment and you must also bring melee no matter what. Compare this to toxic lash's relatives, speed and warcry. Although they're only 100% efficient with melee equipped, they are still usable and provide tangible benefits whereas toxic lash does not.

In order to fix toxic lash I would personally change the blocking boost to a % damage reduction ala mirage 3 or link. It could be a medium-sized scaling value or a higher flat value. This would allow saryn to be durable enough for melee and be able to utilize toxic lash without a melee equipped, albeit at reduced efficiency. 

Lastly toxic lash melee should refund energy for every spore popped on the target if your melee hit kills the target.

4. Miasma

Where do I even begin. This ability is weak only in its massive thematic disconnect, altough technically doing roughly 1000 more damage than pre-rework if you fully combo it and invest 175 energy.

Compare this ability to a similar one, frost's avalanche. Avalanche provides a large nuke that also crowd controls and shreds max armor. The first 2 parts fit frost but the last part does not and for a cheaper energy cost than saryn. You feel good whenever you press 4 with frost

 

So saryn's miasma is a flat nuke that is boosted by viral and toxin procs, otherwise it's damage is abysmal. That is an example in co-dependency rather synergy. An example of synergy is the upcoming mag rework previewed in the latest devstream. 

To possibly change miasma I suggest two things to make the "armor and flesh melting gas" fit saryn's theme and also promote synergy rather co-dependency. 

First change is to add a corrosive proc for every spore on an enemy when miasma is cast while also causing a corrosive proc for tick of miasma( although it can take 20+ corrosive procs to shred 100% of armor off an enemy).  The second change is allow miasma to shred armor at a small % per tick that scales with power strength and stacks additively but is multiplied for each spore on the target. These changes would fit saryn's theme of melee debuffer and promote the usage of spore and other abilties to allow her corrosive nuke to truly eat away at all the protective layers her enemies are covered in (which makes way more sense than avalanche shredding % of maximum armor).

 

Please take a good look and please only offer constructive criticism and please avoid comments like "this sucks" or "this is OP" 

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by ThatOddDeer

[marshmellory]

spore is perfect imo. it's one of the best scaling damage abilities in the game (like, top 3-5), and it's a FIRST ability. kinda crazy how good it is.

i would agree with you on molt, give it like a 5 second invincibility period upon reaching 2hp, because miasma scales damage off of it's remaining health (kinda like blessing)

definitely agree with the range boost, toxic lash is kinda lackluster at the moment so adding like a 50-75% melee range boost would definitely make it worth using.

miasma...... it's not very good at the moment. when used as a damage ability, it uses too much energy and is outclassed by spores. when used as CC, it's outclassed by like.... everything... else.... given that the stun is a fixed duration.  it would definitely be MUCH better if it took away x% of enemy armor per tick, scaling off strength mods (maybe start at 15-20%?) to fit into saryn's theme of a debuff machine.

 

[ThatOddDeer]

2 minutes ago, marshmellory said:

spore is perfect imo. it's one of the best scaling damage abilities in the game (like, top 3-5), and it's a FIRST ability. kinda crazy how good it is.

i would agree with you on molt, give it like a 5 second invincibility period upon reaching 2hp, because miasma scales damage off of it's remaining health (kinda like blessing)

definitely agree with the range boost, toxic lash is kinda lackluster at the moment so adding like a 50-75% melee range boost would definitely make it worth using.

miasma...... it's not very good at the moment. when used as a damage ability, it uses too much energy and is outclassed by spores. when used as CC, it's outclassed by like.... everything... else.... given that the stun is a fixed duration.  it would definitely be MUCH better if it took away x% of enemy armor per tick, scaling off strength mods (maybe start at 15-20%?) to fit into saryn's theme of a debuff machine.

 

I am likewise fine with spore, I just wish it'd consolidate your toxin procs because its fun to see that one BIG number ticking down their hp. That's why I listed it more as a bug/QoL tweak. Despite what you said about molt being true, miasma doesn't do more damage the lower molt is because molt either dies before you finish miasma's cast time or it's at full hp and hasn't drawn any aggro yet :b

The range on 3 would be nice, but toxic lash really NEEDS to be useable sans melee weapon. Like speed or warcy

I stayed away from 15-20% armor shred on miasma because I wanted it to synergize with spore. Still good without it, but better with it.

[phoenix1992]

For me a frame can be good when certain criteria are met :
a) Allows more than 1 valuable play style
b) Can fit a role
c) Fits the power curve
d) Has synergy

Right now.... Saryn has synergy and can fit a certain role. But not enough is done in order to make her more appealing towards various play styles. I want to push her for melee build (example), but not with the current toxic lash. I want to play her as some supportive Damage Over Time frame - nope, she is egocentric and does not do enough in Pugs (a premade team is another story, that I do not wish to comment on).

Now looking at what you proposed :
1. Can't comment

2. Please. This is not implemented well enough and if you compare the gains with... Life strike - this is how a knee jerk reaction is born. Sustain does not begin and end with 2-3 frames and 2-3 mods. And if I recall the molt blows up for more spores?

3. This is power creep. And you ignore the augment, why?

4. You don't know where to start with it, and I also wish to see more data/have more experience/do more with that ability. So far in MY builds (I am not the majority of players, keep it in mind) I am pushing to semi-tank build and poping miasma is last resort. I am sure, that this is not supposed to be used like that (hey it works so far).

[ThatOddDeer]

13 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

-snip-
Now looking at what you proposed :
1. Can't comment

2. Please. This is not implemented well enough and if you compare the gains with... Life strike - this is how a knee jerk reaction is born. Sustain does not begin and end with 2-3 frames and 2-3 mods. And if I recall the molt blows up for more spores?

3. This is power creep. And you ignore the augment, why?

4. You don't know where to start with it, and I also wish to see more data/have more experience/do more with that ability. So far in MY builds (I am not the majority of players, keep it in mind) I am pushing to semi-tank build and poping miasma is last resort. I am sure, that this is not supposed to be used like that (hey it works so far).

Let me respond to your criticisms ignoring 1 because we seem to be in agreement.

2. Regenerative molt will almost ALWAYS fully heal you and is an alternative to lifestrike.

Molt is also supposed to a durable encampment to draw aggro but since it does not scale, it just dies and doesn't provide anything that toxic lash or a gas weapon provides. What I suggested allows a skillful saryn player to maximize the bonus a low hp molt gives to miasma while also guaranteeing a a minimum period of aggro draw.

3. actually it's bringing back an old power that ember used to have, called overheat. It was eventually removed from her because it didn't fit the fiery-caster theme ember has. By adding it to saryn you solve 2 of toxic lash's biggest problems, 1 that it is only ever half usable and that it is unuseable sans melee weapon. This would put it in line with its competitors of warcry and speed. Also mirage and trinity are allowed to have high percertage selfish damage reduction but neither are melee frames. Why does the melee-oriented saryn get left out?

4. When I said didn't know where to start, that's a figure of speech meant to show that there are so many problems there are too many to list off simply. Miasma was designed as saryn's finisher, however against anything that is not an ancient infested, it does piddly flat damage that doesn't scale. It's crowd control doesn't scale with duration, it does less overall than a loadout even 1/3rd dedicated to spore popping and doesn't shred armor when it thematically SHOULD. Unlike avalanche which seems to have stolen the armor shredding ultimate role.

 

Edited March 22, 2016 by ThatOddDeer

[viamont]

my opinions about my main frame and ways to improve her without making her OP crazy:

Spores- agre, one of the best 1 out there, the ONLY thing i can tink of to make it better its for De to comit to her more on the "debuffer" style they want to give her, how so? simple. Each 5 ticks of spores damage the enemys are:

a) stagered (gives her a small CC component wich its somewhat reliable based on the time, yet not imediate making it masive CC (thanks to the spores spread) yet decent enought for that CC saryn seriously lack

OR

b) also add a puncture debuff (would help her mitigate damage for her team)

Molt- Completly agree that as a survival tool with the syndicate mod its great, but as an agro pulling tool  its "meh" at best.

Make it so the molt (like MANY people have already said) gets the snow globe treatment, 1/2/3/4 seconds of invulnerability (based on rank) would make it WAY better on high levels (wich is the place where the molt suffers more, it dies in 1, 2 seconds at best). Personally in order to fix the problem of the aggro (wich im pretty sure im not the only one who have noticed the molt plenty of times gets ignored by enemys eben if they have it in front of them) would be to make saryn invisible 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 seconds (non modifiable by any mod) while shes on the range of the molt, with this the molt draws all the agro, gives her a small moment to reposition and then take the offensive again, of course to balance this the   invisibility should dissapear imediatly if she takes any kind of agresive action (so it can be abused)

Toxic lash - As a spore poping tool its great, the extra toxin damage it carries to the spores i belive its also a nice ting, the problem as mentioned above is that the energy refund seems a bit off....making it 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 energy back per enemy spored would be better. The damage reduction needs to be changed, it should be active at all times instead of only parry...as a "get close to the enemy tool" it works great, but the moment you stop the parry you get shreaded to pieces to easily...being active would be much better.

Alternatively i tink the "charge up battery" componet of the molt should be moved here instead, by acumulation damage while toxic lash its active the end result of miasma wil lbe far better, players using the combo will be rewarded much more as they need to earn it via direct combatr, but in the end get rewarded (as already mentioned) when they pop that miasma for extra damage

Miasma - Personally i tink what it trully needs its a better CC component AND a corrosive proc.

The CC its nothing complicated to add, when an enemy suffers from a viral and or toxic proc the stun duration its increased by 1 second. For instance if im not mistaken miasma stuns enemys at a fixed rate of 3 seconds, with a toxic proc it would go up to 4 and with a viral AND toxic up to 5, i tink this would be a solid CC component (wich again) rewards players for using the combos shes meent to use.

Miasma also should do a corrosive prcc each tic with a 100% chance, this would be seriously good and add more to her debuffer meta, she would strip enemys from half her health, reduce their armor and do more, still she has to work for this things so i belive the balance is still there.

[ThatOddDeer]

3 minutes ago, viamont said:

my opinions about my main frame and ways to improve her without making her OP crazy:

-snip-

It almost feels like you repeated what I said verbatim. Good to see that my ideas are at least floating around

[phoenix1992]

2 - Stills smells like power creep.  Until more... nah forget it. Not the frames, but the players them self should learn to use more sustain mods. My point is, that Molt already has 4 powers -  removes status, taunt, heal and blows up. It is a lot of utility and a balance would be to pick what you would like to keep.

3.  I am not able to understand you. Maybe grammar or spellcheck fail - please, without malice and do not rush it - edit that point for more clarification. If your point is, that this ability is connected too much to how good your weapon is - totally. But this is also applied to many frames, and it works. The augment also scales (even though I would like to see it scale MORE, right now it is not scaling enough for "end game")

4. As I said - I also not able to pinpoint one issue, but due to different reasons. I require more firs hand information (aka me experiencing it) in order to say anything for it.

[viamont]

Just now, ThatOddDeer said:

It almost feels like you repeated what I said verbatim. Good to see that my ideas are at least floating around

 

sorry if it looks like a kind of repeat, but truthfully as a saryn player i feel this are the best thigns to improve her without breaking her, small meaningfull changes that work to consolidate her on her role while keeping her on her theme, of course i did added a few personal ideas that i think you didnt mentioned but thats the good thing, many ideas can create a bigger one =D

[ThatOddDeer]

Just now, phoenix1992 said:

2 - Stills smells like power creep.  Until more... nah forget it. Not the frames, but the players them self should learn to use more sustain mods. My point is, that Molt already has 4 powers -  removes status, taunt, heal and blows up. It is a lot of utility and a balance would be to pick what you would like to keep.

3.  I am not able to understand you. Maybe grammar or spellcheck fail - please, without malice and do not rush it - edit that point for more clarification. If your point is, that this ability is connected too much to how good your weapon is - totally. But this is also applied to many frames, and it works. The augment also scales (even though I would like to see it scale MORE, right now it is not scaling enough for "end game")

4. As I said - I also not able to pinpoint one issue, but due to different reasons. I require more firs hand information (aka me experiencing it) in order to say anything for it.

2. The heal is dependent on an augment, that is not fair in balancing it. The devs flat out said in a devstream that they made her rework around EVERYONE having said augment in their build. 

Further more, the taunt range is less than 5 meters, the damage it does is tiny and doesn't scale AND it gets overridden by bigger toxic procs from toxic lash when it comes to spreading the toxin via spore. In other words, spore only transmits the HIGHEST toxin proc so the damage molt does is an afterthought. Adding the snowglobe treatment would be fair compared to snow globe and tectonics.

3. Let me clarify. Toxic lash is an ability that is similar to speed and warcry. Buffs that affect melee but also provide something else. If you don't bring a melee toxic lash is useless. Every other ability that scales off weapons, specifically their mods, is still usable sans that specific weapon. My proposed change would allow saryn players to use her 3 without a melee weapon and still get use out of it, despite it not being at 100%. Just like speed or warcry. The augment isn't worth it because it's flat damage and not based on weapon damage. It'd be like taking an augment that increases the damage of shock from 250->400. Why would you do that?

 

4. I'll let you experiment with your 4, just be warned it's awful and spores does it's job way better

[ThatOddDeer]

6 minutes ago, viamont said:

 

sorry if it looks like a kind of repeat, but truthfully as a saryn player i feel this are the best thigns to improve her without breaking her, small meaningfull changes that work to consolidate her on her role while keeping her on her theme, of course i did added a few personal ideas that i think you didnt mentioned but thats the good thing, many ideas can create a bigger one =D

I'd like for them to change how toxin procs interact with each other and spore. Like combining them into 1 super proc when they spread so that it's worth stacking lots of toxin on one enemy before spreading it to everything nearby.

On the topic of miasma, it either needs to proc a crapload of corrosive procs because it shreds 25% of current armor and you exponentially more procs to remove 100% armor. Which is why I suggested that miasma shred % max armor that scales with spores and power strength.

[phoenix1992]

3 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

2. The heal is dependent on an augment, that is not fair in balancing it. The devs flat out said in a devstream that they made her rework around EVERYONE having said augment in their build. 

2. Now I would not say "EVERYONE", since you know *tiny voice* I don't need it, and don't use it for healing.

3. I love to poison the life of my foes. And due to my rampart melee usage (hue) this is extra buff that I gladly take. Wiki states that you have an alternative skill, while not using melee - " Contagion " -  and I will check up if this is the case ATM.  I am sorry, with the current game status, I don't go anywhere without melee (too many perks for my game style in that direction), and TOTALLY forgot about the option of... player not bringing melee?

[ZenroZephon]

I must ask, why did you repost this once more? Saryn doesn't need another rework, she works as is. So can you please just stop asking to rework a frame that works, and instead ask for it on a frame that doesn't work well like limbo.

[carnaga]

I would love to have this fixed:

http://i.imgur.com/z3ueX6s.gifv

[ThatOddDeer]

2 minutes ago, ZenroZephon said:

I must ask, why did you repost this once more? Saryn doesn't need another rework, she works as is. So can you please just stop asking to rework a frame that works, and instead ask for it on a frame that doesn't work well like limbo.

Because Devstream 61 confirmed a revisit to the rework as the devs acknowledged that the rework was not yet perfect.

Also the reason I'm not doing a limbo rework thread is because there are already MANY of those floating around. Since the unpinning of the saryn rework thread, which had 130 pages of feedback mind you.

Edited March 22, 2016 by ThatOddDeer

[phoenix1992]

13 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

3. I love to poison the life of my foes. And due to my rampart melee usage (hue) this is extra buff that I gladly take. Wiki states that you have an alternative skill, while not using melee - " Contagion " -  and I will check up if this is the case ATM.  I am sorry, with the current game status, I don't go anywhere without melee (too many perks for my game style in that direction), and TOTALLY forgot about the option of... player not bringing melee?

Nope, does not do anything. Cudos to you for pointing this out, shame to the community moderators for not giving up to date information.
On a side note - let's never talk about me doing runs without melee, okay?

[ThatOddDeer]

2 minutes ago, carnaga said:

I would love to have this fixed:

http://i.imgur.com/z3ueX6s.gifv

as would I, spores need to be more consistent in there performance. Damage and utility wise they're fine.

[alexmach1]

Personally, I'd rather spores deal corrosive procs rather than viral so your other abilities scale better with them. As it is now, units with high armor simply brush off everything Saryn can do. It would also aide your teammates too, as half health is nothing if an enemy can still resist 90% or more of your damage.

Someone might bring up Corrosive Projection, but if spores dealt corrosive procs then you'd be able to use the other various auras such as bonus melee damage or healing over time.

[ThatOddDeer]

3 minutes ago, alexmach1 said:

Personally, I'd rather spores deal corrosive procs rather than viral so your other abilities scale better with them. As it is now, units with high armor simply brush off everything Saryn can do. It would also aide your teammates too, as half health is nothing if an enemy can still resist 90% or more of your damage.

Someone might bring up Corrosive Projection, but if spores dealt corrosive procs then you'd be able to use the other various auras such as bonus melee damage or healing over time.

Having spores deal viral is fine because saryn already HAS a source of corrosive damage. The reason it doesn't deal corrosive procs or shred armor at all is the problem.

[alexmach1]

11 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

Having spores deal viral is fine because saryn already HAS a source of corrosive damage. The reason it doesn't deal corrosive procs or shred armor at all is the problem.

Yes, but unlike miasma spores spread around across the entire map and has much higher range, as well as continuously spreading to enemies even if they have already been afflicted. Miasma, however, requires recasting if you want to use that corrosive damage against new enemies and costs a lot more energy, and cannot spread that damage to other enemies. As a debuff, corrosive would be much more helpful and would allow for teams that have more than 1 Saryn, as viral no longer stacks unlike corrosive. The viral proc would be much more fitted to Miasma to reduce the enemy's health when it's needed rather than hoping you have a long enough Miasma duration to remove enough armor to make a difference.

Edit: Not to mention the sheer benefit of constantly removing an enemy's armor for your teammates to do their piece.

Edited March 22, 2016 by alexmach1

[PikeOrShield]

1 hour ago, ThatOddDeer said:

1: spore

For a first ability, this is arguably one of the strongest in the game. Cut the HP of nearly everything on the map for 25 energy alongside a pitiful DoT and the ability to transfer the highest toxin proc on the target to other enemies when a spore is popped. 

Other than changing how toxin procs are transferred by spore so that they take the cumulative value of all toxin procs on the target to the surrounding enemies this ability is perfect for what it does.

~snip~

I am pretty sure it already consolidates the toxin procs.  Here it is from the wiki:

Spoiler

If an infected enemy is being damaged by a  Toxin proc, popping a spore on that enemy will also spread  Toxin damage to surrounding enemies. The spore will have 25% of the initial base damage that triggered the  Toxin proc added to its burst damage as  Viral damage with a 100% status chance for  Viral and  Toxin effects.

• Damage percentage is affected by Power Strength.
•  Toxin status effect deals 50% of the burst damage as  Toxin damage per tick over 11 ticks in 10 seconds. Duration-based status effects are prolonged due to Saryn's passive.
• If multiple  Toxin procs are damaging an infected enemy, the initial base damage that triggered each individual  Toxin proc will be combined when a spore's burst damage is calculated.

The important parts are in bold.

[ThatOddDeer]

2 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

I am pretty sure it already consolidates the toxin procs.  Here it is from the wiki:

  Hide contents

If an infected enemy is being damaged by a  Toxin proc, popping a spore on that enemy will also spread  Toxin damage to surrounding enemies. The spore will have 25% of the initial base damage that triggered the  Toxin proc added to its burst damage as  Viral damage with a 100% status chance for  Viral and  Toxin effects.

• Damage percentage is affected by Power Strength.
•  Toxin status effect deals 50% of the burst damage as  Toxin damage per tick over 11 ticks in 10 seconds. Duration-based status effects are prolonged due to Saryn's passive.
• If multiple  Toxin procs are damaging an infected enemy, the initial base damage that triggered each individual  Toxin proc will be combined when a spore's burst damage is calculated.

The important parts are in bold.

I know that it's supposed to be that way. In testing and in the field it doesn't seem to do that which is why I had it listed as a QoL change and/or bug

[Rambit23Z]

This is one of the few (If not only) Saryn rework thread I can agree on.

[viamont]

18 hours ago, ThatOddDeer said:

I'd like for them to change how toxin procs interact with each other and spore. Like combining them into 1 super proc when they spread so that it's worth stacking lots of toxin on one enemy before spreading it to everything nearby.

On the topic of miasma, it either needs to proc a crapload of corrosive procs because it shreds 25% of current armor and you exponentially more procs to remove 100% armor. Which is why I suggested that miasma shred % max armor that scales with spores and power strength.

 

I been trying to tink of a way to make exactly that...something like viral+toxin = ???? wich is basically a special procc only saryn has...initially i tought it could be a simple boost to toxin...like forexample:

After 5 viral proccs ALL toxin damage applied to the enemy (as long as it has a spore on its body) it recieves an aditional 25%/ 50% extra toxin damage.

I agree that Miasma seriously needs to procc corrosive on each tick, IF (and a big IF) im not mistaken old miasma procced 1 corrosive with each cast but they took it away with the new one.

Now i sudendly had an idea while at work and would like you to hear it and tell me what you tink about it.

Molt - Remove the "battery" component of it and instead change it to a snow globe treatment (no more changes)

Toxic lash - Upon cast it gives saryn the regular toxin damage buff (20/22/25/30%)and double the value as armor bonus (its pretty small i know but hear me out) BUT as long as saryn its surrounded by enemys suffering from a toxic proc she absorbs a part of the damage they are suffering transforming it on a self buff (not sure here how big the numbers should be tough):

The toxin damage should be capped at +100% bonus damage

Armor should go up to +400%

Now here comes the tricky part, that % armor bonus will work as the battery of molt, when she needs to use that extra damage you as the player leave 4 pressed while casting it, that way you release a 100% value of armor transforming it in bonus damage for miasma. With this if you want to keep the armor value you just tap 4, but if you want bonus damage leave it pressed.

[ThatOddDeer]

42 minutes ago, viamont said:

 

I been trying to tink of a way to make exactly that...something like viral+toxin = ???? wich is basically a special procc only saryn has...initially i tought it could be a simple boost to toxin...like forexample:

After 5 viral proccs ALL toxin damage applied to the enemy (as long as it has a spore on its body) it recieves an aditional 25%/ 50% extra toxin damage.

I agree that Miasma seriously needs to procc corrosive on each tick, IF (and a big IF) im not mistaken old miasma procced 1 corrosive with each cast but they took it away with the new one.

Now i sudendly had an idea while at work and would like you to hear it and tell me what you tink about it.

Molt - Remove the "battery" component of it and instead change it to a snow globe treatment (no more changes)

Toxic lash - Upon cast it gives saryn the regular toxin damage buff (20/22/25/30%)and double the value as armor bonus (its pretty small i know but hear me out) BUT as long as saryn its surrounded by enemys suffering from a toxic proc she absorbs a part of the damage they are suffering transforming it on a self buff (not sure here how big the numbers should be tough):

The toxin damage should be capped at +100% bonus damage

Armor should go up to +400%

Now here comes the tricky part, that % armor bonus will work as the battery of molt, when she needs to use that extra damage you as the player leave 4 pressed while casting it, that way you release a 100% value of armor transforming it in bonus damage for miasma. With this if you want to keep the armor value you just tap 4, but if you want bonus damage leave it pressed.

These are pretty solid Ideas.

I like the toxic lash idea but it'd be far simpler to code your idea for toxic lash as flat % damage reduction

Same goes for miasma, it'd be easier to balance around  a flat % per tick armor shred ala avalanche

Edited March 22, 2016 by ThatOddDeer