A not-so-simple change to disincentivize Draco

[DeadlyPeanutt]

On 4/2/2016 at 7:23 PM, motorfirebox said:

That's really not a good argument. The question isn't whether there's a loot cave, it's how much better the loot cave is than everything else. If the loot cave is insanely better, it leads pretty directly to players burning out on doing the same stuff over and over. If it's only a bit better, players can do other stuff without feeling like they're missing out or wasting time.

in the case of draco, most players ONLY go to draco to level up weapons... so burnout on draco is not an issue unless you're buying/crafting an insane number of weapons. 

i've run in draco squads with many MR20 and 21 players who only go there to forma a new weapon.  

personally, i might run two or three draco missions, then not go there for a week. 

[KaeseSchnitte]

1 hour ago, DeadlyPeanutt said:

also, to repeat the quote above... OP why does it matter to you how others play their game?  if you don't want to play draco, don't play it.  

Again, it doesn't matter what I want. DE wants to disincentivize Draco. I am merely suggesting a way to do that and to take care of any other "lootcave" after that.

[(PSN)horridhal]

11 minutes ago, KaeseSchnitte said:

DE wants to disincentivize Draco. 

From what I've understood of all their comments, they were unhappy other nodes weren't as rewarding, not particularly against Draco itself.

They don't want a single node to dominate the majority of the playerbase's play time in the game, they aren't against the loot caves themselves.

[KaeseSchnitte]

And my suggestion will incentivize other missions as Draco will be less rewarding. Whenever a multiplier shrinks for one missions, it grows for other missions. So there will always be one most effective way to farm, it just wont be the same mission all the time.

Edited April 10, 2016 by KaeseSchnitte

[SaucyTuckermax]

I don't understand why so many players seem to hate draco. draco is gonna come to an end at some point but then players will find a different spot that will become the next draco. Players that have played since the beggining know that there has ALWAYS been a prefered node hot spot / loot cave. Before draco there was a spot called 'Xini' that used to be a defense mission and is literally exactly what draco is now. you guys remember that???

[(PSN)horridhal]

1 hour ago, KaeseSchnitte said:

And my suggestion will incentivize other missions as Draco will be less rewarding. Whenever a multiplier shrinks for one missions, it grows for other missions. So there will always be one most effective way to farm, it just wont be the same mission all the time.

You neglect that your suggestion will also penalize players who don't want to play a variety of mission types.  I don't particularly like much outside of endless mission types and, in your suggestion, when the multiplier on those mission types is low I'll either be forced to play the game with a reduced rate of drops and affinity, or go to nodes I don't particularly want to play.

Forcing players to play content they don't want to play, in a game based around personal choice, is a bad idea.

[Fifield]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Forcing players to play content they don't want to play, in a game based around personal choice, is a bad idea.

I don't want to play Draco.  That 100% counters your objection.

[(PSN)horridhal]

1 hour ago, Fifield said:

I don't want to play Draco.  That 100% counters your objection.

No, it doesn't, because in the current system we can both play whatever node we want and neither of us is at a disadvantage.

[Fifield]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

No, it doesn't, because in the current system we can both play whatever node we want and neither of us is at a disadvantage.

And in the proposed system we can both play whatever node we want and neither of us is at a disadvantage.  100% countered again.

[DeadlyPeanutt]

6 hours ago, KaeseSchnitte said:

Again, it doesn't matter what I want. DE wants to disincentivize Draco. I am merely suggesting a way to do that and to take care of any other "lootcave" after that.

what DE wants is irreverent.  if DE makes bad decisions and nerfs maps and nodes that players find helpful, players will leave and find other games... less money will come in and WF will be abandoned by DE as a consequence of it's own bad decision making. 

imho, players who find creative ways to accomplish goals within the rules of the game should not be punished for their creativity.  and players like you should not try to decide how everyone else plays their game. 

[Fifield]

32 minutes ago, DeadlyPeanutt said:

 if DE makes bad decisions and nerfs maps and nodes that players find helpful, players will leave and find other games...

DE have done this repeatedly.  Not seen one person claim to have left as a consequence yet.

But this suggestion needn't nerf anything.  It can bring the same XP to dozens of other maps.

If anyone has a better suggestion, feel free to present it.

[(PSN)horridhal]

2 hours ago, Fifield said:

And in the proposed system we can both play whatever node we want and neither of us is at a disadvantage.  100% countered again.

You are inherently wrong with your interpretation of the idea as it is being presented.

If my node gets a lower drop/affinity rate, I am at a disadvantage.  The reverse is also true.  As it stands now, there is no loss of affinity or drop rate to incentivizing traveling to other nodes, and their shouldn't be.  That is my contention.  People should be free to play any node they choose and, if that just happens to be Draco, so be it.  It isn't my place to police another person's game, just as it isn't yours.  

You haven't actually offered anything to counter anything I've said so this will be my last time responding to these sorts of comments.  If you care to actually have an intelligent discourse on the topic, by all means.

[BlackCoMerc]

10 hours ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

You neglect that your suggestion will also penalize players who don't want to play a variety of mission types.  I don't particularly like much outside of endless mission types and, in your suggestion, when the multiplier on those mission types is low I'll either be forced to play the game with a reduced rate of drops and affinity, or go to nodes I don't particularly want to play.

Forcing players to play content they don't want to play, in a game based around personal choice, is a bad idea.

Exactly this. And with us already being forced in the last six months to tolerate the abysmal Sharkwing on Uranus and the RNG puzzle rooms on the Moon in order to obtain certain rewards, being forced into certain missions to level Forma items is a BAD idea. We are being railroaded enough of late; so many choices taken away if we want to be able to obtain certain things.

The last thing we need is more of this.

[TalonBlue]

How about making content that doesn't require a key, doesn't require you to farm, and doesn't make you waste an hour of your time in one single mission for a RNG drops in a loot cave? How about making content that isn't just another meaningless location mission, set only to be part of a series of unlocks to get you the next planet. I'd like there to be missions that weren't just resource or experience farms. 

I'm still waiting for some meaningful content to appear in this game. And three years in I still see none.

[DuskLegendary]

Well, I like the whole xp rotations idea. Once per day, DE could put a multiplier on a certain node of their choice that gives say, 3x the xp and affinity for that given day. Once the day is over, the rotation switches to a different node. This way, we get pulled away from Draco, but yet there's still a very effective way to level our stuff. DE wins, we win, I don't see the problem. Doesn't have to be overly complicated, doesn't have to be hard, it's probably all that's needed to pull us away. I only play at Draco because it works, and it works well.

Normal gameplay on the other hand, doesn't hold a candle to the amount of xp and Affinity Draco awards, so guess what? I play Draco. It's not rocket science, if DE wants me to play other nodes, then make other nodes viable because for Christ sake I don't have half a day to level a single frame or weapon. The multiplier on their node of choice would fix this. We play on the forgotten nodes they want us to play on, we level our stuff, we're happy, they're happy, everybody wins. Them nerfing Draco won't solve anything. In fact, I'll just run to the next most viable node, though it probably won't be nearly as good as Draco. Now feel free to debate this as much as you want. I just came here to give my views on the matter, not to start an argument with someone and go back and forth trying to get the last word in with them just so that they can stroke their ego a little bit. Pointless, waste of time, childish. Now, I liked a lot of ideas in this thread, and I can't wait to see what DE has in store for us. Hopefully, they will find a good solution that is fair to everyone.

[Fifield]

On 11/04/2016 at 5:34 AM, (PS4)horridhal said:

If my node gets a lower drop/affinity rate, I am at a disadvantage.

If others' nodes have a lower drop/affinity rate, they are at a disadvantage.  100% countered for the third time in a row.

On 11/04/2016 at 5:34 AM, (PS4)horridhal said:

People should be free to play any node they choose

So you do support this suggestion then.

On 11/04/2016 at 5:34 AM, (PS4)horridhal said:

this will be my last time responding to these sorts of comments.

Maybe you'll have better luck not engaging with comments that 100% disprove yours LOL

Edited April 12, 2016 by Fifield

[Fifield]

4 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Exactly this. And with us already being forced in the last six months to tolerate the abysmal Sharkwing on Uranus and the RNG puzzle rooms on the Moon in order to obtain certain rewards, being forced into certain missions to level Forma items is a BAD idea. We are being railroaded enough of late; so many choices taken away if we want to be able to obtain certain things.

a) Sharkwing is awesome.

b) You're not forced to do the moon at all.  Those rewards are obtainable elsewhere.  Most of them are powercreep stuff that you don't need period with current endgame.

c) Being compelled to level items on Draco IS a bad idea.  That's why DE and this suggestion seek to change it.

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

you do notice that some of the actual award in Draco is mostly objective affinity and team assist affinity.

objective affinity is affinity earned when completing or interacting with an objective (capture towers). team assist affinity is the affinity you earn from being near enemies who a being killed by your teammate.

for example, with these two types of affinity types, affinity goes to all weapons in your current arsenal, while killing affinity will only go to the specified weapon or warframe ability responsible for the kill.

so if you ever wonder why your ash, Valkyr, or Excalibur is not gaining as much affinity for your weapons from their ult spam; its because you are using a specified ability to kill multiple enemies and only receiving affinity for all weapons in your arsenal from other teammates kills and objective participation.

i dont think more enemies should spawn at all, they just need to edit the amount of objective completion affinity for each mission type instead of concentrating on killing more to get more.

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

People would still want Draco (or some Infested mission) - mainly because it's not Corpus.

You can't farm affinity with Corpus solely because of nullifiers (possible combas).

[(PSN)horridhal]

1 hour ago, Fifield said:

Maybe you'll have better luck not engaging with comments that 100% disprove yours LOL

As was stated :

10 hours ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

You haven't actually offered anything to counter anything I've said so this will be my last time responding to these sorts of comments.  If you care to actually have an intelligent discourse on the topic, by all means.

 

[Fifield]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)SupeBoss said:

People would still want Draco (or some Infested mission) - mainly because it's not Corpus.

You can't farm affinity with Corpus solely because of nullifiers (possible combas).

You mean you can't cheese Corpus because of nullifiers.

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

4 minutes ago, Fifield said:

You mean you can't cheese Corpus because of nullifiers.

That is exactly what i mean lol.

It won't be as easy cheesy and fast as Draco, so people (including myself) would rather have Draco.
If forma releveling wasn't such a pain, it wouldn't matter to me.

[Fifield]

If DE want to stop people cheesing, good for them.

Corpus XP needs a buff, as does Infested.

Forma relevelling is only a pain if you're impatient.  We can do weapon relevelling with our 2 other weapons without even thinking about it.  As long as you have a spare, there's no problem whatsoever -- and this even promotes weapon variety. On frames, it means visiting nodes like Akkad -- hardly a big imposition, but a small problem is you're excluded from using that frame until you've ranked it up.

I'd support a nerf to Draco if grind on certain frames was reduced as compensation ie Ivara and Atlas.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Fifield

[KaeseSchnitte]

On 04/10/2016 at 1:14 AM, (PS4)horridhal said:

You neglect that your suggestion will also penalize players who don't want to play a variety of mission types.  I don't particularly like much outside of endless mission types and, in your suggestion, when the multiplier on those mission types is low I'll either be forced to play the game with a reduced rate of drops and affinity, or go to nodes I don't particularly want to play.

Forcing players to play content they don't want to play, in a game based around personal choice, is a bad idea.

If you are concerned that endless missions would be less rewarding since they presumably would get played more than finite ones, then I'd disagree, since both endless and finite mission types would balance each other out. Endless missions would still be rewarding more than playing finite missions for the same time, if you stay in the mission long enough. And that's how it should be. But in all honesty, if making the game as a whole more enjoyable for most of the players, it is ok to upset some by rewarding them less for camping one mission type all the time. And in the end, noone said that all missions of the same type will have equally bad multipliers.

[KaeseSchnitte]

On 04/10/2016 at 11:48 PM, (PS4)horridhal said:

From what I've understood of all their comments, they were unhappy other nodes weren't as rewarding, not particularly against Draco itself.

They don't want a single node to dominate the majority of the playerbase's play time in the game, they aren't against the loot caves themselves.

And my suggestion would make other missions as rewarding as Draco, primarely by diminishing the amount of enemies that spawn, but that's because Draco is an outlier at the moment. If they are not happy with the outcome of my suggestion, they could simply bump the multiplier.