Let's Give Shade A Shotgun

[Neuhnee]

Hear me out, this is about to make alot more sense than you thought it would.

 

The Shade's weapon is really more of an 'oh S#&$' option rather than an actively offensive role. He only shoots at things that have already shot at you, and his pea shooter doesn't really add much in terms of damage. Right now I've got mine loaded down with a bunch of utility, one of each of the elemental mods and my only pistol stun card. As of now the best we can hope for is that Shade will stunlock something that snuck up behind us until we're done with whatever we're shooting at and can shoot Shade's target in the face with a real gun. Now this isn't terrible as is and I'd be happy with this model if there were a few tweeks such as having shade prioritize the highest incoming DPS, or targets that are behind you.

 

Now, let's imagine a Shade with a shotgun. A shotgun with *very* short range, slow ROF and high burst damage. Essentially a 'one shot wonder'. Now instead of being an annoying nat pestering that Bombard you're already hosing down, Shade becomes the wingman that stands a good chance of taking out that Flameblade that bamfed in behind you while you were burning down the Bombard.This would give the Shade much more of an 'I got your back' feel and would fit in with the 'getting you *out* of trouble' theme of Shades other abilities much better than the current weapon.

[DaClaus]

shade isnt supposed to do much dmg

if you want something that oneshot enemys that are to near get a dethcube

[RikaCovenant]

With a slow rate of fire it isn't going to be doing tons of damage, it'll just be able to give a nasty thing a big splat of pellets. I think a guarenteed stun like Vaporize does to enemies would be a much better solution, though.

[Xylia]

If anything, Shade should have a Sniper Rifle, not a shotgun.

 

Shade is supposed to be the stealthy sentinel.

 

What kind of stealthy assassin uses a shotgun? lol.

 

The only problem with this, is that might interfere with attempting to stealth through an area.

 

Or, perhaps Shade could instead have a Bolto-like pistol gun that is silent. That way if Shade has to retaliate, it doesn't alert the whole room to your presence.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Xylia

[Neuhnee]

Keep in mind that Shades only attack after something has already shot you so if it's shooting at all stealth is already broken. And there are some really good points here, it doesn't have to be a shotgun, that was just the first thing to leap to my mind when I thought high damage, short range, and low ROF. I'm thinking of a weapon that could one shot that one guy you missed and got to close, but would be slow enough that you couldn't just stand there and let Shade hold off an entire infested wave for you, and short ranged enough that it's not counter-sniping for you. Maybe something like a short ranged Lex?

[Xylia]

Keep in mind that Shades only attack after something has already shot you so if it's shooting at all stealth is already broken. And there are some really good points here, it doesn't have to be a shotgun, that was just the first thing to leap to my mind when I thought high damage, short range, and low ROF. I'm thinking of a weapon that could one shot that one guy you missed and got to close, but would be slow enough that you couldn't just stand there and let Shade hold off an entire infested wave for you, and short ranged enough that it's not counter-sniping for you. Maybe something like a short ranged Lex?

 

Not always.

 

Sometimes, if you're stealthing, you might come up on a melee unit (a Sawman, Flameblade, etc) before the ship is alerted. There've been times I went through a door and there was one right on the other side, and I killed him before he was able to alert the whole ship.

 

But, since I had Dethcube at the time, its mini-Gorgon very much DID alert the guys in the next room, who touched a control panel, ending my little stealth attempt.

 

Had I a shade with a silent gun, that wouldn't have happened.

[Story4]

He means that shade only attacks when someone has already attacked you, so it doesn't raise alarms. If it had a shotgun or something similar, then it could kill the one who threatens you fast because it has a large damage, but it would take longer for it to do high DPS since it has a high recharge time/low fire rate. So it would only be good against 1 mob every 2-3 seconds or something like that, but it would be very deadly and only towards mobs that already attacked you. I think that's his idea and i think it's pretty good.

[Xylia]

He means that shade only attacks when someone has already attacked you, so it doesn't raise alarms. If it had a shotgun or something similar, then it could kill the one who threatens you fast because it has a large damage, but it would take longer for it to do high DPS since it has a high recharge time/low fire rate. So it would only be good against 1 mob every 2-3 seconds or something like that, but it would be very deadly and only towards mobs that already attacked you. I think that's his idea and i think it's pretty good.

 

Gunfire of any sort, yours or your sentinel's, will alert every enemy in the room, and most enemies in nearby rooms. Obviously, weapons like Kunai, Paris, etc are considered "Silent" weapons and don't cause this.

 

So if you were in a room with, say, a Flameblade and you had a Shade with a Shotgun.... the Shotgun blast would be heard by enemies in a nearby room and they'd trip the alarm. That's why the Shade's gun must be considered "silent".

[Neuhnee]

It's pretty obvious that most people reading this have never run a Shade. The other two sentinels will open fire on the first thing they see. The Shade *only* fires on something that has fired on you *first*. They won't even shoot at something *you* are shooting at unless it has shot at you. So it doesn't matter what *kind* of weapon they have they are incapable of breaking stealth. They will never ever fire a single shot until after something else has already broken stealth.

[Xylia]

It's pretty obvious that most people reading this have never run a Shade. The other two sentinels will open fire on the first thing they see. The Shade *only* fires on something that has fired on you *first*. They won't even shoot at something *you* are shooting at unless it has shot at you. So it doesn't matter what *kind* of weapon they have they are incapable of breaking stealth. They will never ever fire a single shot until after something else has already broken stealth.

 

So you're saying Shade never opens fire on something that strikes you with melee, like a Flameblade or a Sawman?

[Neuhnee]

So you're saying Shade never opens fire on something that strikes you with melee, like a Flameblade or a Sawman?

No, I'm saying that if something strikes you with melee like a Flamenlade or a Sawman then stealth is already broken and it won't matter what Shade shoots them with.

But that's really beside the point, nobody's saying that whatever this gun we're dreaming up can't be silenced. I really don't care if they don't change the name at all, I'm just suggesting a new funtionality that I think would be much more fitting for the Shade than what we have now.

[Gregio]

Shade really isn't supposed to deal damage to things. It's a support sentinel whose go-to ability is turning the user invisible.
Other than that, it's really most useful being loaded with elemental mods to stun/freeze things that are shooting at you.

If you want lethality on your sentinel, get a Wyrm or Dethcube.

[RyojinOrion]

IMO, either Wyrm or Dethcube should have a shotgun, not Shade. It just doesn't fit the whole style for Shade, ya know? Maybe a sniper rifle would be a better choice, as it fits the style, but I can't imagine a flying sniper rifle would be all that accurate.

[Neuhnee]

I'm not proposing we make Shade a murder machine. But it has a gun on it now that doesn't really do anything. If it's going to have a gun I say lets give it one that will fit in with it's other abilities. I'm talking about something that can one shot the guy who gets to close, but has a ludicrous cool down, let's say 10sec. And super short range, maybe just barely more than melee. Something that can make it feel like Shade just saved your butt, but not something you would count on to kill mobs, that's what the other sentinels are for

[RyojinOrion]

You mean give it Dethcube's Vaporize?

[Neuhnee]

You mean give it Dethcube's Vaporize?

 

 

Yeah actually, that's pretty much exactly what I've been trying to describe. I hadn't looked at the Dethcube because I *didn't* want a tiny murder machine, but yeah I've basically been trying to say replace Shade's gun with this. Damn, that would have been perfect, and it honestly doesn't make any sense on a murder machine, but I guess it's not going to happen now thaqt they gave this functionality to the wrong sentinel

[RyojinOrion]

 it honestly doesn't make any sense on a murder machine,

 

I dunno... An instakill attack makes a lot of sense on a murder machine to me... But that's just me.

[Neuhnee]

IDK, an instakill on something that already has a baby Gorgon seems like over kill to me. And it would have made the gun on Shade not seem pointless

[Depar]

shade should stay like it is op cloak dont do dmg

 

cubey - vaporize S#&$ and spray enemys to death

 

wyrm, wut . . give him the shotgun, boar-spread make him more a "tank"sentinel

[X3Evanescence]

shade should stay like it is op cloak dont do dmg

 

cubey - vaporize S#&$ and spray enemys to death

 

wyrm, wut . . give him the shotgun, boar-spread make him more a "tank"sentinel

 

^ +1

[Carcharias]

Shade really isn't supposed to deal damage to things. It's a support sentinel whose go-to ability is turning the user invisible.

Other than that, it's really most useful being loaded with elemental mods to stun/freeze things that are shooting at you.

If you want lethality on your sentinel, get a Wyrm or Dethcube.

This would be an amazing and strong stance to take if ghost worked right. Which it doesn't appear to. I can run up on a disruptor, get ghosted, circle around behind the target (so it cant just blindly sap where I used to be) and most of the time the disruptor will turn around like he has no problem seeing me at all and say "hi dar sap for u?" This is only one example. As long as you have enemies that roll up to where they last saw you and blindly attack (shockwave MOA) the ghost argument will never be in iron clad defense against the weapon it caries because ghost is far less than 100% effective as advertized.

[Cysic]

Shade needs some general tweaks because at the moment the "ghost" element isn't really outperforming the present or conceptual functions of Wyrm + Wyrm gun or Dethcube + Dethcube gun. Either making Ghost work properly and applying a more visible weapon (a high reload Bronco would be ideal, in my opinion, as it could function comparably to the current in a macro situation while still feeling valuable in clutch scenarios) or by restricting Ghost a little bit while improving the current pistol. A shotgun would probably suit the Wyrm better, though, along with some bugfixes as I believe at the moment that Crowd Dispersion isn't functioning correctly. Shade's issues could also generally be fixed by improving the Stealth aspects of Warframe as the game is very much presently incomplete in that regard. Alarm panels have extremely low timers and poor visibility and many are simply impossible to reach in time... with tweaks to how the detection/alarm systems worked Shade would certainly become a more viable (if niche) choice.

 

But more than any of that I'd like (at least Shade) to go invisible when I go invisible. It's sort of annoying to use Loki's invisibility and have the sentinel just kind of hanging out there.

[Story4]

I think it would be better if you could craft weapons for sentinels. This way if you want a shotgun you can craft it, if you want a sniper you can do that as well etc. Also IMO every sentinel should have a attack or stop button. So maybe you can go sneak with Dethcube and when they see you you can order it to attack. The only thing differentiating sentinels IMO should be abilities and there should be more. Dethcube could be offense, Wyrm defense and Sentinel stealth but those would be based on their abilities, not on the weapon they have or the very silly attack range mod.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Story4

[SoanoS]

Definitely would support Wyrm+Shotgun idea.

 

If the shotgun Wyrm is not possible, how about a new sentinel altogether with a miniature shotgun and the ability to either stun a single enemy or knock an enemy down?

[ZWarhammer]

+1 to this thread we currently have 3 sentinels and none of them use a shotgun.