About Nerfs And People

[Enomilli]

The focus should be on weak weapons. It seems don't get any attention at all with all the nerfs being done.

The community has been yelling at DE enough...

 

My Reaper Prime thread has been bumped by people for nearly a week now...

 

As long as we keep things like that at their attention things will get done...

[demonaii]

I'm really against nerfs because The Nerf has 2 options:

1. Make it garbage

2. Balance it

 

But to be honest the mostly make it garbage instead of making it balanced with all other weapons primary's or secondary's .

 

Those guys who post threads about weapons who are OP they just are kiddies who are from anti-fun organization

[MyHeroPatrickSwayze]

Those guys who post threads about weapons who are OP they just are kiddies who are from anti-fun organization

Also they are probably bowmag users.

[Venus-Venera]

I'm really against nerfs because The Nerf has 2 options:

1. Make it garbage

2. Balance it

 

But to be honest the mostly make it garbage instead of making it balanced with all other weapons primary's or secondary's .

 

Those guys who post threads about weapons who are OP they just are kiddies who are from anti-fun organization

its impossible to balance. balance would mean perfect 50% / 50%. this will never happen.

and if they make an item garbage then its a huge SCAM. people buy items with real money! they expect same stats/look etc. so they buy product and devs make it useless garbage. all this without refund! 

[Mazikeen]

Imagine there would be a few primary weapons far stronger than the others. These weapons are not nerfed, the other primary weapons are buffed.

 

Since all primary weapons are now good, the secondary and melee weapons have become too weak => let's buff them.

 

Since all weapons are now good, abilities have become too weak => let's buff them.

 

Since all weapons and abilities are now good, ennemies have become too weak => let's buff them.

 

For one or two weapons stronger than intended initially, you have buffed 99% of the game (which takes some time, so no new devs).

Edited June 15, 2013 by Mazikeen

[Sixty5]

In all honesty I am all for nerfing stuff that is deemed OP, it promotes diversity in the setups people use.

 

Also Disrupters and Toxics are some of the only real challenging enemies in the game, but that said, they are simple to deal with once you learn their patterns. 

[TheOmegaFlux]

this is a PVE game, nothing is overpowered just buff the bad guys /fixed/

[Sjukob]

OP...you're not too smart are you...?

 

In my "Nerf the Latron Prime" thread I openly state that this was a sarcastic thread...

 

Seems Cedric and so many other people who lack the ability to read have also bypassed this...

 

You guys make me shake my head in disappointment at your inability to read...

I apologize ... that was my misstake to understand sarcasm where it doesnt exist ... 

Your skills of sarcasm make my hand cover my face ...

 

 

Okay then let's bring back melee before U7 and the HEK before it's real nerf...

 

Nerfs are needed to balance a game...leaving imbalances is not necessary...

 

Only a fool goes about only by buffing...

You are not silly man and should understand ... that DE cant do good nerfs ... 

Their nerfs only ruin the game ... so the way to go is way of buffs only ... 

 

 

A sniping shotgun did not need to stay...

 

The HEK could literally outsnipe Snipetron...

 

Please tell me that does not sit well with you..

 

If an imbalance is present...take care of it...

 

High Rank is not an excuse for having another weapon like the HEK...

That was problems of snipetron ... if they didnt nerf shotguns they would become something special ...

and people would say : - " Ooh warframe is the only game where you can snipe with shotgun , its cool , other games dont have such thing " ...

High rank ... Not having something better on high ranks is like having useless skills in late RPG game ... where enemies are stronger and you are not strong enough to deal with them ... 

 

 

Nerf does not mean to render a weapon useless...

 

You are thinking about nerfing in terms of tearing a weapon apart when that is not nerfing a weapon...that is breaking it...

 

Nerfs are never meant to be severe...not at all...

 

You need to buff and nerf to balance a game...not just one or the other...

As i said ... nerfs only ruin THIS game ... you talking about nerfs at all ... but in this game nerfs arent welcome at anyway ... 

Edited June 15, 2013 by Sjukob

[AdamTheBean]

Why nerf Ogris..? It is one of the weapons worth it's cost at the moment.

[Sjukob]

Why nerf Ogris..? It is one of the weapons worth it's cost at the moment.

Thats why i started this topic , why you should nerf strong weapons , when you can make other weapons stronger . 

But , if you read news from DE you find this in topic " Update 8 related work " 

 

DON'T NERF "X", MAKE "Y" AS GOOD AS "X": Message received and understood.

 

but even after that some poeple still ask for nerfs , thats why i started this topic . 

 

Nerfng only makes things useless and less likely to be used again. It would be better to make enemies harder than to make a weapon less useful.

 

Or buff the underpowered weapons. Why not buff them instead. The Grakata got that buff, there are other things that need that buff. Why not ask to buff those that are in need of buff those those yo think are in need of nerf just because people are having too much fun with them.

 

You want variety, you have to make it happen by buffing useless weapons just like they did the clan weapons. Brings all them other weapons up to code and warframes. Focus on buffing what needs that buff than see if anything really needs that nerf.

 

No one likes to have their favorite toy broken(Rhino, for example).

 

But people do like having new toys to play with. Think about it. It's better to have more useful weapons. than to have a lot more useless weapons. You nerf said stuff and you'll just see less variety as people flock to the strongest thing they can find and then people are going to complain that no one uses anything else and you'll only have yourselves to blame.

 

Read this , its the way not to ruin stuff of the game .

Edited June 15, 2013 by Sjukob

[.Monarch]

OP...you're not too smart are you...?

 

In my "Nerf the Latron Prime" thread I openly state that this was a sarcastic thread...

 

Seems Cedric and so many other people who lack the ability to read have also bypassed this...

 

You guys make me shake my head in disappointment at your inability to read...

 

You kinda just shoved your sweaty foot right up in your own mouth yo.

 

OP's first language isn't English, the FIRST line stated that.

 

Let me just ask you a question...

 

Are you too arrogant that you ignored the fact that at least 50% of the world's poppulation doesn't use English as first language?

 

Or just the inability to read.

 

I kid I kid. Just think twice before you post something useless like this yea?

 

On the other hand -

 

@OP

 

HEK does need a nerf, now I agree with the point of bringing things up instead of bumping them down.

 

But seeing as how HEK is just a MR4 weapon, it just pack wayyyyyy too much heat.

 

Perhaps it's DE intention to put something powerful as an incentive to get people to rank up.

 

To get impatient people to buy items instead of crafting to get there.

 

And I assume the same applies for Ogris and other Research weapons.

 

But I wouldn't suggest nerfing any of the research weapons, since they all require a massive amount of resources to build.

 

As well let's not forget Forma - Also the million of materials required to craft the dojo for the base.

 

They deserve the power they hold.

[Chris9428]

Nerfs are sometimes necessary, or else the guns start dealing as much damage as in WoW.

[Batwing]

You kinda just shoved your sweaty foot right up in your own mouth yo.

 

OP's first language isn't English, the FIRST line stated that.

 

Let me just ask you a question...

 

Are you too arrogant that you ignored the fact that at least 50% of the world's poppulation doesn't use English as first language?

 

Or just the inability to read.

 

I kid I kid. Just think twice before you post something useless like this yea?

 

On the other hand -

 

@OP

 

HEK does need a nerf, now I agree with the point of bringing things up instead of bumping them down.

 

But seeing as how HEK is just a MR4 weapon, it just pack wayyyyyy too much heat.

 

Perhaps it's DE intention to put something powerful as an incentive to get people to rank up.

 

To get impatient people to buy items instead of crafting to get there.

 

And I assume the same applies for Ogris and other Research weapons.

 

But I wouldn't suggest nerfing any of the research weapons, since they all require a massive amount of resources to build.

 

As well let's not forget Forma - Also the million of materials required to craft the dojo for the base.

 

They deserve the power they hold.

It needed that nerf or it still needs more nerf ? Because i don't see how it should be nerfed its the strun with better reach and 10 more damage with 2 less clip size and it needs mastery rank 4 ? Seriously do you even use it ? Or are you one of those people who scream nerf cause someones doing better than you with a weapon that you couldn't get ? Also it's a shotgun it has good burst damage but not great on dps kinda hard to kill bosses with it that have fast regeneration shields and high armor.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Batwing

[Slayblaze]

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE ?! 

 

 

It's because people are dumb.

 

That's why.

[Xoxile]

It needed that nerf or it still needs more nerf ? Because i don't see how it should be nerfed its the strun with better reach and 10 more damage with 2 less clip size and it needs mastery rank 4 ? Seriously do you even use it ? Or are you one of those people who scream nerf cause someones doing better than you with a weapon that you couldn't get ? Also it's a shotgun it has good burst damage but not great on dps kinda hard to kill bosses with it that have fast regeneration shields and high armor.

The Hek is still a powerful weapon even after this so called nerf. It's an extremely easy to use gun. The biggest advantage it has over the other shotguns is it's tighter spread so more pellets hit. Hek is still the endgame shotgun.

[Venus-Venera]

It's because people are dumb.

 

That's why.

not all. and i know nobody who can say how people are. you must study every single person and hope they don't change in future.

for example: we have some coders from india. they trash talk in kitchen all the time. they eat with open mouth and they are even more stupid then "people" in their movies. they basically waste company resources. but! i cant cant say everybody is in india like this. 

[neKroMancer]

PvE game requires balancing since the selling point is diversity. All weapons (except starters) should be able to reach endgame, all frames should be viable in endgame. If one frame or weapon is substantially better than the rest then inevitably, they will be used a lot more than others. Players will get bored, dev can't sell the rest of the items in cashshop, game's dead.

 

A lot of players believe that nerf is unnecessary. Buff the rest of the weapon/frame to the level of strongest weapon/frame. While this looks pretty good, the consequence of said action will be reduction of difficulty across the board. The result is simple : Increasing AI's stat to bump increase difficulty. Performance of everything is reduced and the only thing that it creates is bloated number on the screen. 

 

Something can't be possibly be matched even with extreme buffing. How do you make other abilities as good as pre-balance Iron skin? It's impossible to do so. Nothing can beat 15 seconds of immunity to everything. The only thing i could think of is increase damage of ultimates to reach the point that they can kill everything but it would be extremely bad idea.

 

Buff and nerf are required in balancing. Some weapons that perform far, far better then the rest must be brought back into the line while subpar weapons should be buffed to make them more viable. Even with Steve's DON'T NERF "X", MAKE "Y" AS GOOD AS "X": Message received and understood. I don't believe that DE can do it.

 

The only thing that is true is change. 

[Xoxile]

Something can't be possibly be matched even with extreme buffing. How do you make other abilities as good as pre-balance Iron skin? It's impossible to do so. Nothing can beat 15 seconds of immunity to everything. The only thing i could think of is increase damage of ultimates to reach the point that they can kill everything but it would be extremely bad idea.

That's what I say. It's impossible to balance difficulty when there is something that grants immunity to everything. Damage, knockdown, and even energy drain. It would be like trying to balance the immovable mass by applying the unstoppable force to it. A stalemate.

[Enomilli]

You kinda just shoved your sweaty foot right up in your own mouth yo.

 

OP's first language isn't English, the FIRST line stated that.

 

Let me just ask you a question...

 

Are you too arrogant that you ignored the fact that at least 50% of the world's poppulation doesn't use English as first language?

 

Or just the inability to read.

 

I kid I kid. Just think twice before you post something useless like this yea?

 

On the other hand -

 

@OP

 

HEK does need a nerf, now I agree with the point of bringing things up instead of bumping them down.

 

But seeing as how HEK is just a MR4 weapon, it just pack wayyyyyy too much heat.

 

Perhaps it's DE intention to put something powerful as an incentive to get people to rank up.

 

To get impatient people to buy items instead of crafting to get there.

 

And I assume the same applies for Ogris and other Research weapons.

 

But I wouldn't suggest nerfing any of the research weapons, since they all require a massive amount of resources to build.

 

As well let's not forget Forma - Also the million of materials required to craft the dojo for the base.

 

They deserve the power they hold.

If English is not his first language then he should side on caution more than anything...

 

The moment he made an accusation that was incorrect he then made him self subject to whatever I felt like saying...

 

I've not shoved my foot in my own mouth but in his when he should have not actually bothered stepping out of his comfort zone and end up being wrong...?

 

I don't care that it was not his first language...I couldn't care less...

 

Don't take on something you're not ready for...that is exactly what OP has done...

 

I'm not wrong in anyway...

[Enomilli]

I apologize ... that was my misstake to understand sarcasm where it doesnt exist ... 

Your skills of sarcasm make my hand cover my face ...

 

 

You are not silly man and should understand ... that DE cant do good nerfs ... 

Their nerfs only ruin the game ... so the way to go is way of buffs only ... 

 

 

That was problems of snipetron ... if they didnt nerf shotguns they would become something special ...

and people would say : - " Ooh warframe is the only game where you can snipe with shotgun , its cool , other games dont have such thing " ...

High rank ... Not having something better on high ranks is like having useless skills in late RPG game ... where enemies are stronger and you are not strong enough to deal with them ... 

 

 

As i said ... nerfs only ruin THIS game ... you talking about nerfs at all ... but in this game nerfs arent welcome at anyway ... 

Your lack of faith in DE is disgusting...

 

They will learn to properly nerf otherwise this game is going to fail...

 

They only have one option...and that is do it correctly...

 

Have more faith in this company...your words are completely meaningless because you lack faith in DE...

 

Go get more...and then you'll understand that you're being pointless...

[Sjukob]

Your lack of faith in DE is disgusting...

 

They will learn to properly nerf otherwise this game is going to fail...

 

They only have one option...and that is do it correctly...

 

Have more faith in this company...your words are completely meaningless because you lack faith in DE...

 

Go get more...and then you'll understand that you're being pointless...

I'm not lack of faith in DE , i'm lack of faith in community of warframe which wants DE to listen them , you may ask why , well look at this topic https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/65622-warframe-logic/page-2#entry688749 if you want to know what is wrong you can read my post on second page . And the biggest problem is that DE really listen to community . Why they nerfed hek ? because people asked . Why they nerfed overload . Because some " people " thought it was OP . Even now i still see topics where i can find suggestions about nerfs , i saw following suggestions : Sonar , Slash Dash , Ogris , Vauban and may be other things , but that what i saw . 

If you still need some points to understand why i disapprove nerfs , here it is . Imagine RPG game where players can use different elements do deal damage , but all people use fire only because it deal more damage . What DE would do in this situation ? NERF FIRE TO HELL !!! What they should do : increase the power of other elements , add different effects to the elements like poison reduce armor of target , lighting hit multiple enemies at once , ice would freeze  targets , fire burn etc , add enemies resistance , add ability to combine elements , it would be like this combine fire and lighting you get chain of lighting which burn enemies , combine lighting and ice and enemy which you attack would be like tesla coil dealing damage around himself , combine posion and fire and enemies would go crazy after the are attacked , runing around burn their mates and attacking them . It can be non logical , but people dont want to see logic in game , you can concince in it if you visit topic by link in this post . And yeah , the following way requires more work , looks like i get it why DE dont want to use that way , but i hope they would .

Edited June 17, 2013 by Sjukob

[Batwing]

The Hek is still a powerful weapon even after this so called nerf. It's an extremely easy to use gun. The biggest advantage it has over the other shotguns is it's tighter spread so more pellets hit. Hek is still the endgame shotgun.

And that's why you need MR4 for it which does take time to get.A gun that requires actual leveling in a game should be stronger than the ones you can buy as a new player.You make it sound like the other shotguns can't land all their pellets.The Hek can be shot from a farther distance and get more pellets the other shotguns you have to be closer it still only has 10 more damage than the stun if you're using them both right.It shouldn't be nerfed its a decent gun that you have to work for.MR4 isn't easy to get for casual players i have friends playing this game a few times a day and they're still only half way through MR2.If you guys have a problem with it DE should just make it a higher mastery rank then not nerf it.

[XDeathCoreX]

Your lack of faith in DE is disgusting...

 

They will learn to properly nerf otherwise this game is going to fail...

 

They only have one option...and that is do it correctly...

 

Have more faith in this company...your words are completely meaningless because you lack faith in DE...

 

Go get more...and then you'll understand that you're being pointless...

It seems you're not going to stop until everything and everyone are viewed as "weak" and everyone says this game is "too hard" like when the beta first opened.

Edited June 17, 2013 by XDeathCoreX

[Keie]

 

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE ?! 

There is nothing wrong with people wanting a fun game. True OP often equals boring quick.

You want nerfs ?

A few

Do you remember situation with hek and gorgon?

Yes

Did you forget about Rhino's iron skin ?

No

You want more nerfs like these ?

Changes are needed for a good game, players aren't interested in suggesting them on forums.

Do you want forums full of whine after each nerf ?

Beats these posts

Do you really think there are a lot of OP stuff which players can use ?! NO there arent

Have you leant to play Vauban?

may be you've got a headache , eh ?

You like attacking people?

If you see that something works very well against enemies , that is because enemies in this game are too weak , not because weapon is too strong .

Same thing. All numbers in a computer.

But i still think there are someones who need nerfs and they are ancients disruptors , really the only things which must be nerfed are disruptors , thats it , no more nerfs this game needs . Thank you .
P.S. well , may be toxic ancients deserve a nerf ...

Feeding the troll while food is cooking (ps that's the OP) ps only wimps think disruptors/toxic need changing.

[Allajh]

Claiming things are overpowered in a PvE game...

...

...

 

What that really means is the DIFFICULTY INCREASE we've been asking for needs to be implemented.  EoS.