So You Fix Our Slide Yet De?

[Pourvoir]

Keep talking about it to get it changed people.  Sick of this crappy slide still...  I know they wanted to fix that slide melee attack exploit but they hurt the slide doing it.

 

At least make it so running doesn't take stamina.... I mean why does it.  Inb4someone goes "well the stamina mods need a value".  Just take them out of the game.  Why balance a game around some mods?  That's silly.  

 

So DE, make us feel like space ninjas and give us that awesome mobility  back please?  I just started playing ash and I'm like WOW why even play any frame besides loki or ash when everyone is significantly slower, and I'm not even talking about for rushing.  Even in defense missions it's nice to have that speed to get around the map or move around your enemies.

[Feam]

Yeah, why balance the game around some mods? Why do we even need enemies or extraction points, such a drag!

Guns are a bummer, too. It would be nice if we could just play Slideframe all day but they keep interrupting it.

So silly, DE!

Warframes are unnecessary, as well. All we need is Loki and Ash and Dual Zorens and Slide.

We're bumper cars, DE! Not Space Ninjas. Stop being so silly!

[Shockness]

 Stop being so silly!

Stop being so childish, Pourvoir is right. We should be space 'ninjas' but they're taking our freedom of being fast away, and the way u handle ur comment about leaving everything out of the game is unappropiate 

Edited June 17, 2013 by Shockness

[NanoDecerto]

Yeah, why should running take stamina? Everyone can run forever without getting tired, right?

[Feam]

Stop being so childish, Pourvoir is right. We should be space 'ninjas' but they're taking our freedom of being fast away, and the way u handle ur comment about leaving everything out of the game is unappropiate

Spamming ridiculous moves over and over again and spinning around at 50mph isn't "Freedom" and I sure hope it isn't what you imagine Ninjas do.

Can't handle sarcasm in a thread that has been posted a thousand times before? Here's a real response that you probably wouldn't even care about because it is easier to think anyone with an opinion other than you is "Trolling" or childish.

Freedom is subjective. We were given an inappropriate ability that completely changed the intended flow of the game and they are looking into ways that give a sense of balance while remaining in their standards.

Just because you were used to something doesn't mean it is the absolute truth. There are a billion other ways to give us the mobility we desire without practically breaking the game.

Judging by the rest of your comment I can only assume you thought I was serious, so let me hint out the fact that my comment is nothing but the outcome of what happens when people are blinded by every past feature of a game because they fear change and improvement.

I'm here to play Warframe, not roflcopterblades, not slidefest, not Sonic the Hedgehog. DE can decide what way THEY think is appropriate for us to move while keeping it fun, instead of revert back to old mistakes because of endless complaints.

Happy, or do you prefer sarcasm?

Edited June 17, 2013 by Feam

[Kielix7]

As far as I'm concerned, stamina is pretty much a useless characteristic of this game.

I discussed this before in detail of the use of acrobatics in this game. It bleeds into the realm of this thread. 

 

> https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/62846-acrobatics-and-level-design/#entry656199

In my thread, I give examples about how this game doesn't give you very much freedom to use your acrobatics.

 

If you really look at what you use stamina for, you'll realize you only REALLY use it in two places. Where you're running, or where you are wallrunning over a gap. You never run out of stamina when you are using your melee attack, whether you have Ankyros or Dual Ethers with full Fury mod and are spamming E until your finger falls off, or a Scindo or Gram constantly using charge attacks.

 

There is literally no point to having stamina in this game, other than the sake of realism. This isn't Skyrim, where stamina actually affects combat. In Skyrim, your attacks cost a decent chunk of stamina. You do less damage the less stamina you have, you run slower, and when you exhaust the bar completely, it takes longer to recharge.

 

tl;dr, Stamina is useless. 

[Noogums]

Sprint>Crouch>Jump>Ironsights>Repeat.

Infinite sprint with some Ninja thrown in the middle.

[Meenmu]

Possible compromise: remove slide cooldown, but also remove speed boost from sliding. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to begin with that dropping down from a full sprint and grinding your legs against the ground actually causes you to go even faster. Instead sliding speed should be approximately sprinting speed. This way, spamming slide doesn't make you go any faster, but it is still useful in other ways. And you don't have some invisible cooldown causing movement to be somewhat unpredictable (one thing happens when you press a key, but press it again and something different happens). Would also help to make movement a bit more intuitive to new players, since sliding would no longer be something with quirky mechanics that you actually have to figure out, and would instead behave the way one would expect it to.

[LtZefar]

Freedom is subjective. We were given an inappropriate ability that completely changed the intended flow of the game and they are looking into ways that give a sense of balance while remaining in their standards.

 

Bwhahahahhahahh You kidding right?

 

Let me tell you why it was rather useless to patch this up.

 

1: It doesn't harm you in any kind of way when other people use it.

2: This is only PvE and those that do not use it will not notice it. Those that do use it, often use it with others who also use it. Which mean they have a lot of fun doing so.

3: The flow of the game is laughable because you just as easily run past these enemies without so much of a problem. Maybe a normal jump slide will get you far enough away. So that flow is is not an issue.

4: I've played with plenty of people and this was never an issue for me.

 

I don't get why you're so against people being able to do it. For me it doesn't matter if someone wants to do a silent run, speed run, scavenge run or full out. It's their way of having fun in this game and if you start to remove those fun elements for those people you'll customers.

 

The Quake game was never supposed to have that jump bug where you kept getting faster and faster. But instead of removing it, the creators left it in because a lot of people liked it. Now it's a key feature to that franchise. Well it was kinda lost in the latest Quake game if I remember correctly. 

Same thing with Half-Life 1 and Counter Strike 1.6. Those jump bugs that allowed you to break a certain speed barrier has not been patched out because so many loves it.

 

Warframe should not have patched this out because people like it and it will only make the game less fun for those people. I didn't use it that much but I still liked it when I wanted to backtrack quickly. Now I just have to run and do a normal sprint jump kick. It's boring in short.

 

If I can defy gravity with wall running in both sideways and height I should be able to slide dash jump slide and so on.

[Ghobe]

People liking something is not grounds for keeping it in the game.

 

As to the current implementation, I hardly even notice the cooldown unless I'm intentionally trying to trigger it. Honestly, you guys need to learn how to abuse wall jumping, it is WAY faster than the old combo once you know what you're doing with it. You know those big open long bridges? One wall jump clears the entire distance.

 

Either way though, I prefer not seeing everyone playing derp ninjas(which is also what it looks like when you have a bunch of people using the Skana non-charged melee on 1 guy).

[Ryjeon]

You guys have poor mobility because you lack skill. Practice and and experiment more.

[Kielix7]

You guys have poor mobility because you lack skill. Practice and and experiment more.

 

...Did you read anything posted in this thread, Tenno?

[Bakim0n0]

I know I'm supposed to be taking a break but... I can't help but comment.

Say what you will about this being appropriate or not... in my clan we went from 20-30 active people in prime time to maybe 10 right around this "fix" and almost all of them (myself included) this was the breaking point where we went from super fanboys to having a real distaste over how this game is going.

It's got nothing to do with lack of practice; actually if you time it right you can still go almost as fast as before; it's just muddier and clunkier and really takes away from a lot of the fun.

Like it or not, for some the ability to move like we used to was a *selling point* and removing it just lessened the fun; and that's the problem with changing mechanics in a game when people have been playing it 3-4+ months a particular way.

In the long run, I doubt DE will change this and I doubt DE will notice the people who leave because it makes the game more appealing to a wider base.

[liavalenth]

I agree I want it changed back, but I have nothing to really add. Others have said about everything there is to say. The solution they used did fix the perceived problem, maybe. I don't actually know why they changed this. All I know is that movement is less fluid, less controllable, and a little more boring. Even if you never use the exploit they were allegedly trying to fix (if that was the objective). There must have been better solutions to whatever problem they were trying to solve than this one.

Edited June 17, 2013 by liavalenth

[theammostore]

So DE, make us feel like space ninjas and give us that awesome mobility  back please?  I just started playing ash and I'm like WOW why even play any frame besides loki or ash when everyone is significantly slower, and I'm not even talking about for rushing.  Even in defense missions it's nice to have that speed to get around the map or move around your enemies.

Because some people like being the slow powerful facekicker? Or the glass cannon? If you want mobility, there's Ash and Loki, right there waiting for you. The rest are meant to be slower, be more tactical.

 

I honestly don't get why people are so upset over this. It's hardly less fluid. If you want to frontflip over something and still seem like a ninja, front flip over it, ads so your roll, then start running. If you are trying to get past some people, you jump kick their faces, slide a moment, then just start sprinting again. There are so many ways to be fluid in this game that don't involve what the dev's thought of as an exploit (if i'm remembering right). You don't need to front flip EVERYWHERE to be fluid, you have plenty of other ways to do that.

[DBugII]

You guys have poor mobility because you lack skill.

This point has some minor validity, despite the obvious troll.

As the rate and rate of speed-running has been reduced for less committed players, more complex exploits need to be executed.

I hardly consider these movements skillful however, more along the lines of tedious.

 

You can always use a faster frame though.

Edited June 17, 2013 by DBugII

[Bakim0n0]

Because some people like being the slow powerful facekicker? Or the glass cannon? If you want mobility, there's Ash and Loki, right there waiting for you. The rest are meant to be slower, be more tactical.

 

I honestly don't get why people are so upset over this. It's hardly less fluid. If you want to frontflip over something and still seem like a ninja, front flip over it, ads so your roll, then start running. If you are trying to get past some people, you jump kick their faces, slide a moment, then just start sprinting again. There are so many ways to be fluid in this game that don't involve what the dev's thought of as an exploit (if i'm remembering right). You don't need to front flip EVERYWHERE to be fluid, you have plenty of other ways to do that.

To put this out there... you likely don't see what all the fuss is about because you didn't use it the way others have.

As I said before; like it or lump it people have developed playstyles over the last several months and this change directly, tangibly changed that and while the target was some exploiting it had a wider effect. It's not an issue with Loki or Ash because they were always fast all by themselves; the problem is when you're a frame like Rhino or Frost and there is one of the very fast frames either rushing past everything or clearing rooms before you can get there. Yes, it can still be compensated for but now instead of being able to glide along you have to scramble and make a mad dash.

Also, mix that with how this change influenced the subtleties of melee combat (namely, using slide tactically) and you see a much more drastic change if you were / are a melee focused player (the second slide in the chain has nearly no forward momentum and that REALLY changes your flow in combat believe it or not)

[Ryjeon]

...Did you read anything posted in this thread, Tenno?

 

This thread and others like it is full of people claiming that DE "removed" a mobility function in this game that is still very present and quite easy to pull off. It took me a day to adjust the new control nuances and now I have more air control than I had prior to the patch. Every patch brings subtle changes to mobility while DE seeks to fine-tune it for our benefit. The fact that people cry about "loss" of this particular maneuver shows that they were relying too much on cheap repeatable motion. Maybe it's not the game? Maybe it's you?

[Bakim0n0]

This point has some minor validity, despite the obvious troll.

As the rate and rate of speed-running has been reduced for less committed players, more complex exploits need to be executed.

I hardly consider these movements skillful however, more along the lines of tedious.

 

You can always use a faster frame though.

And this...

If you know what you're doing you can still move basically as fast as before; you just have to use moves that are more specific but complex and they have little to do with skill.

and again, using a faster frame is nice, but not everyone likes using Loki / Ash (especially with Loki being partially broken and Ash being a more expensive / difficult to obtain frame with an ulti that, frankly, is so ugly it turns some away from the frame entirely) and it doesn't address the issue with fast players *who use those speed tricks* and their ability to totally leave others in the dust with the easier / more common mobility trick getting taken off the table.

[Ghobe]

I don't really feel a mobility difference. Maybe it's because I never relied on the trick that took a big hit from this. Jump->slide, walljump, front flip, sliding melee, aerial sliding melee...all these mobility moves still exist, you can just no longer execute 2 of the same in quick succession(what's the cooldown? a whopping second?). Thanks to this change my group actually stays together for the most part, unlike before. Every once in a while we still get speedy(someone with maxed rush) that is using a Volt/Loki/Ash to go through as fast as possible, but it's no longer commonplace for the group to split up like this.

 

Also, mix that with how this change influenced the subtleties of melee combat (namely, using slide tactically) and you see a much more drastic change if you were / are a melee focused player (the second slide in the chain has nearly no forward momentum and that REALLY changes your flow in combat believe it or not)

As to this, I actually prefer it because of this.

[Bakim0n0]

This thread and others like it is full of people claiming that DE "removed" a mobility function in this game that is still very present and quite easy to pull off. It took me a day to adjust the new control nuances and now I have more air control than I had prior to the patch. Every patch brings subtle changes to mobility while DE seeks to fine-tune it for our benefit. The fact that people cry about "loss" of this particular maneuver shows that they were relying too much on cheap repeatable motion. Maybe it's not the game? Maybe it's you?

It's not even about relying on it, it's more about enjoying it and not everyone is complaining about the same aspect of what changed.

Frankly, I could give a rat's behind that wave dashing is gone; I never did it in the first place; and as for chaining melee attacks IMHO it would have been far better to put a slight cooldown on slide attacks after 3-4 chains in succession rather than the harsh diminished returns on momentum because a lot of slide-slash combo chains are no longer viable when they already don't do as much damage as they used to except for specific weapons.

[Ryjeon]

"you just have to use moves that are more specific but complex and they have little to do with skill."

 

 

I think that word doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

Streaming Thrak Rhino no Rush mod Dual Skana No HUD

 

http://www.twitch.tv/ryjeon

 

Money meet mouth

Edited June 17, 2013 by Ryjeon

[Unibot]

You can still repeat slide by just pressing  toggle run, or holding run during whole  jump - land - jump prosess

So the only thing they fixed is that you need to hold run  the whole process. There are better ways and much more effective to move around  than sliding, but you still can do it, it just fell a bit different and more fluid.

[DBugII]

and again, using a faster frame is nice, but not everyone likes using Loki / Ash (especially with Loki being partially broken and Ash being a more expensive / difficult to obtain frame with an ulti that, frankly, is so ugly it turns some away from the frame entirely) and it doesn't address the issue with fast players *who use those speed tricks* and their ability to totally leave others in the dust with the easier / more common mobility trick getting taken off the table.

Which brings me back to a point I made before, all this patch did was make all the Warframes slower unless more tedious exploits are used. It fails to punish speed-runners, and those who struggled to keep up in the first place are given a new crutch.

 

I think the playerbase could remedy this problem if the host could be granted administration powers over those who enter their party. If the reasoning behind it consists of players getting tired of joining speed-runners/griefers, they should be given the option to separate from the host or if they are the host to kick the other players. This would solve the issue without punishing everyone.

Edited June 17, 2013 by DBugII

[Kielix7]

I don't really feel a mobility difference. Maybe it's because I never relied on the trick that took a big hit from this. Jump->slide, walljump, front flip, sliding melee, aerial sliding melee...all these mobility moves still exist, you can just no longer execute 2 of the same in quick succession(what's the cooldown? a whopping second?). Thanks to this change my group actually stays together for the most part, unlike before. Every once in a while we still get speedy(someone with maxed rush) that is using a Volt/Loki/Ash to go through as fast as possible, but it's no longer commonplace for the group to split up like this.

 

This isn't a thread discussing how cooperative play is impacted. It's about discussing the overall use and standpoint of having the slide mechanic and stamina in the game in the first place.