Cheat Tool False Positive And Rude Customer Service.

[FinnishFox]

I actually agree with the OP, its incredibly condescending. Yes you can be glad they revoked it but its still passive aggressive with inplications that youre a lying little cheat. In mine i was trying to be constructive, bamed all processes and suggested possible triggers and they just ignored it, didnt tell me what caused it and persisted to believe i had a cheat program. Not only do i not know of any but think cheating ruins the game entirely by making it too easy.

So rude as in condescending and blaming, not rude for un ban.

[RavenOfTheFlock]

Wrong. They HAVE to accomodate, at least to be respectful, to US, the customers. WE found their game. In what World are you guys living? If you get banned wrongfully, asking to revert the situation and giving Feedback on the problem, then good. I call that respectfull and solution-oriented. No matter the circumstances. Only in this way DE can provide a better gaming experiene for the future. Please be constructive and stop bashing people. The reply was disrespectful and could have been formulate more polite. They have to earn our respect if the want to get money, not the other way around.

Sorry i'm not a native speaker.

Incorrect, contrary to belief if someone gets banned, their credibility diminishes fast. I am an administrator on a few other games I also run my own clan, I see this sort of thing all of the time; people getting accused and coming up with some crazy excuse when the utility caught them redhanded and took a screenshot of their system. lol. To think that they HAVE to do anything, in my honest opinion; truly is rude. People that show the effort to respect them versus people that don't make all the difference.

I believe from an administrative perspective, the DE Team member that responded was exactly right. Zero tolerance is the way to deal with things of this nature.

 

The important issue here is for not only you but everyone to let DE deal with this on their end and that alone. Posting something like this opens it to public opinion and anyone who disagrees or has any weighted response on anything will say something. Telling everyone they are wrong or attacking them for even responding just makes you look like you're trying to be provocative. Please tell me where I bashed anyone, because I'm curious to see where I did. On the otherhand, you're the one that looks like you're bashing everyone that says nearly anything that is in any way not accommodating to the OP.

Understand this, they provide a service, you just so happen to have the privledge to buy things on it to improve your game. Show the respect and they will likely allow you to continue doing so, do nothing but disrespect them and unfortunately I don't see it going so smoothly.

This being said, this thread needs to be locked. Because at this point in time it's nothing but counter-productive and is heavily diluting the issue.

Edited June 20, 2013 by RavenOfTheFlock

[Aniron]

Incorrect, contrary to belief if someone gets banned, their credibility diminishes fast. I am an administrator on a few other games I also run my own clan, I see this sort of thing all of the time; people getting accused and coming up with some crazy excuse when the utility caught them redhanded and took a screenshot of their system. lol. To think that they HAVE to do anything, in my honest opinion; truly is rude. People that show the effort to respect them versus people that don't make all the difference.

I believe from an administrative perspective, the DE Team member that responded was exactly right. Zero tolerance is the way to deal with things of this nature.

 

The important issue here is for not only you but everyone to let DE deal with this on their end and that alone. Posting something like this opens it to public opinion and anyone who disagrees or has any weighted response on anything will say something. Telling everyone they are wrong or attacking them for even responding just makes you look like you're trying to be provocative. Please tell me where I bashed anyone, because I'm curious to see where I did. On the otherhand, you're the one that looks like you're bashing everyone that says nearly anything that is in any way not accommodating to the OP.

Understand this, they provide a service, you just so happen to have the privledge to buy things on it to improve your game. Show the respect and they will likely allow you to continue doing so, do nothing but disrespect them and unfortunately I don't see it going so smoothly.

This being said, this thread needs to be locked. Because at this point in time it's nothing but counter-productive and is heavily diluting the issue.

I agree with you. it´s heavy counter-productive here at the moment. As is said earlier, there will be allways be different opinions. I didn´t bashing anyone who is against the OP, did you read my posts, did i directly bashed every comment her against the OP, i think not, so, please, stop accusing other people. i even said, that one should know that running defrac and/ or antivir is a fast way to trigger such false positive. When i said: "stop bashing people" i was speaking in general to the thread, not to you directly, i only quoted your post for my first lines. I´m sorry if anyone misinterpreted this, but i´m not a native speaker. Whatsoever experience you have with such people, doesn´t make your statement any more right or more wrong,  in my opinion, yes it´s just my opinion nothing settled in stone or a fact, such a behaviour (the automate Answer from DE) is not polite, and isn´t a rightful treatment of customers. And again, if i fund their games, i expect a respectfully communication on BOTH sides. Im done, the rest of my opinion is described in my previous posts. Sorry again, this should not be a personal attack against anyone here, if some other people interpreted it this way as well.

Play well ;)

[NitroMidgets]

Boobies are good, cheating is bad and people are crazy. Let's just all find common agreement in that.

[Aniron]

Boobies are good, cheating is bad and people are crazy. Let's just all find common agreement in that.

Agreeeeeed xD-------

[Carcharias]

1) To think that they HAVE to do anything, in my honest opinion; truly is rude.

 

2) The important issue here is for not only you but everyone to let DE deal with this on their end and that alone. Posting something like this opens it to public opinion and anyone who disagrees or has any weighted response on anything will say something.

 

3) Understand this, they provide a service, you just so happen to have the privledge to buy things on it to improve your game. Show the respect and they will likely allow you to continue doing so, do nothing but disrespect them and unfortunately I don't see it going so smoothly.

 

4) This being said, this thread needs to be locked. Because at this point in time it's nothing but counter-productive and is heavily diluting the issue.

1) Technically correct, but in a customer business relation there are certain expectations, especially in the gaming community. When I pay money for a good or service the business doesn't get to just take back the product for the fun of it. If they are going to operate like that there needs to be 100% transparency, otherwise it's borderline theft. Theft of my money and my considerable time.

 

2) Opinion, if there is even a chance I could get a wrongfull ban because of over reactive anti-cheat software I would like to know about it. I would like some venue to express my concerns. The problem here is no software (that I know of) is 100% perfect. Weather the OP is guilty or innocent I have a big problem with the tone of the response which is clearly "you are guilty".  The system is not infallible otherwise it would actually be zero tolerance and there would be no "second chance". If the anti-cheat is not perfect then I (and ever other player) am innocent until proven guilty not the other way around.

 

3) Privileged? Really? This is honestly wear I stop believing your claim that you are an admin (not that is matters in this discussion). The tone of arrogance in this statement is impressive, least that's the way you come across to me. The game must make money. If you don't know that then I can't help you with words. The game must make money from players, this simple fact makes the player consumers, or customers. If there was no money coming in to feed the machinery behind the game this enterprise would be shut down in a heart beat. If there was no need to make money then everything in the game would be free. I am not "privileged" to play this game, I choose to (over several other games I could have put my money into) and that fact makes me a customer, not privileged.

 

4) This is a chat forum. This thread has direct bearing to the game. Assuming this does not degenerate into a flame war locking this thread or any thread because some / anyone doesn't not like the topic is akin to censorship. This is an open forum to discuss the game. The good the bad the ugly and any other aspect of the game. This thread should not be locked at this point.

 

My stance is from the point of view of a paying non-cheating customer. This is not the first (or second) time I have seen a post of a player claiming to be wrongfully accused. In my opinion weather this particular OP is guilty or innocent is irrelevant. Point is I do not think the system in place should call you guilty until it's proven. If it is 100% proven then there is no need for a second chance and the admin can adopt a policy that is actually zero tolerance. (you don't get a second chance in zero tolerance)

 

Finally I am not a software expert, just an average PC user and a fan of the game. If the software is actually perfect then I would like to know as it will change the whole tone of my point. At this time I am simply concerned with the concept that you seem to be automatically guilty if the anti-cheat software says so. The reason I do not believe this is because they give you a second chance. If the anti-cheat is actually perfect then there should be no second chances. If the software is not perfect the player should be innocent until proven guilty and dealt with as a customer, aka with a tad more respect.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Carcharias

[Ackito]

What i assume the oper is doing is not understanding the issue at hand. So yelling and telling her him they are wrong won't help the issue.

 

Now this answer was probably copy and pasted when they caught you defraging the games code and then replacing (Rewriting it) They do not know what your intentions were. That is the same as walking with a knife in plan view down the street and then wondering why the police are stopping you. So they banned your account, not a permaban which is in their rights to do. (Think baseball, basketball, football and steroids) so they can scan it for malicious content that would give you an unfair advantage. Once they did not find any they returned the account to you and gave you a fair warning not to do something like that again. Personally I don't know how or even why you would assume that would be a good idea. Even before you defrag a comp it tells you "This program may 'ALTER' so content and files." And that is considered cheating 101.

 

Personally I do not blame them at all for what they are doing. Putting things like this in place early on and then auto banning is the perfect deterant to cheaters. Just as heartless and without remorse as you should be when it comes down to making a good game. Only dedication should decide your strength not your ease of script use. 

 

Personally I see where you're coming from. It's the same as being with a mate that accuses you of cheating on them when you really may want to but you stay loyal and still get accused. But I think you are over reacting to it to tell you the truth. You made a mistake that crossed the line. On purpose it was dealt with in a manner appropriate.

[RavenOfTheFlock]

1) Technically correct, but in a customer business relation there are certain expectations, especially in the gaming community. When I pay money for a good or service the business doesn't get to just take back the product for the fun of it. If they are going to operate like that there needs to be 100% transparency, otherwise it's borderline theft. Theft of my money and my considerable time.

 

 

2) Opinion, if there is even a chance I could get a wrongfull ban because of over reactive anti-cheat software I would like to know about it. I would like some venue to express my concerns. The problem here is no software (that I know of) is 100% perfect. Weather the OP is guilty or innocent I have a big problem with the tone of the response which is clearly "you are guilty".  The system is not infallible otherwise it would actually be zero tolerance and there would be no "second chance". If the anti-cheat is not perfect then I (and ever other player) am innocent until proven guilty not the other way around.

 

3) Privileged? Really? This is honestly wear I stop believing your claim that you are an admin (not that is matters in this discussion). The tone of arrogance in this statement is impressive, least that's the way you come across to me. The game must make money. If you don't know that then I can't help you with words. The game must make money from players, this simple fact makes the player consumers, or customers. If there was no money coming in to feed the machinery behind the game this enterprise would be shut down in a heart beat. If there was no need to make money then everything in the game would be free. I am not "privileged" to play this game, I choose to (over several other games I could have put my money into) and that fact makes me a customer, not privileged.

 

4) This is a chat forum. This thread has direct bearing to the game. Assuming this does not degenerate into a flame war locking this thread or any thread because some / anyone doesn't not like the topic is akin to censorship. This is an open forum to discuss the game. The good the bad the ugly and any other aspect of the game. This thread should not be locked at this point.

 

My stance is from the point of view of a paying non-cheating customer. This is not the first (or second) time I have seen a post of a player claiming to be wrongfully accused. In my opinion weather this particular OP is guilty or innocent is irrelevant. Point is I do not think the system in place should call you guilty until it's proven. If it is 100% proven then there is no need for a second chance and the admin can adopt a policy that is actually zero tolerance. (you don't get a second chance in zero tolerance)

 

Finally I am not a software expert, just an average PC user and a fan of the game. If the software is actually perfect then I would like to know as it will change the whole tone of my point. At this time I am simply concerned with the concept that you seem to be automatically guilty if the anti-cheat software says so. The reason I do not believe this is because they give you a second chance. If the anti-cheat is actually perfect then there should be no second chances. If the software is not perfect the player should be innocent until proven guilty and dealt with as a customer, aka with a tad more respect.

1.) To think that you have a 'right' to a game because you paid for a service is silly and that's exactly what it sounds like. For instance. Say I go into a game like TF2, buy a weapon. Then grief, harass, and ruin the team sport for every one at every turn, disrespect the administrators et cetera; Does that give me immunity from the games rules? I think not. Respect is a two way street, seeing it from an administrative point of view makes you understand why they have such a strong tone in their response. It's no different then when you say "No, you may not do that, but you MAY do this." Just a few more words.

 

2.) I've helped develop a few anti-cheats in my day. If EVER there is one that is looking at your antivirus or a defrag program, then it's crossing a very well drawn line that shouldn't be crossed. Searching and authenticating files, the client, the launcher are all standard procedures. The only way to alter those is to alter the code within which would in-turn change the check-sum that the anti-cheat reads from the client. To my knowledge; DE have made many games in their day, their system could very well be so simple that it checks only the checksum because the only reason a person could have to alter that is to have an intent of malice. But what their system does isn't what's important. It's that the OP acknowledges that they will not by any means tolerate any form of alteration which could make the game not fun for other players. To the wrong person the response could be seen as hostility. But tell me, how do you know what their intent behind the response is? It's sort of like someone saying "No I didn't mean that" versus "No, I did NOT MEAN that!" See the difference? It's human nature to not take things at face value and read more into them. It happens.

 

3.) I had to admit, I had to chuckle a little at this one. Think of it like this, you go into a retailer, run your mouth to the managers, spit nothing but hate and abuse at them. Do you still have the 'privledge' to enter the establishment because you bought a pack of gum in the past? Or, do you they have every right to take their own actions against you? Now how about if it was your own business? Would you ban them? Or let them keep coming in buying things and treating you like trash? If it wasn't a privledge then are you entitled to every game there is regardless? You need to understand where I see the flaw in your reasoning.

 

4.) This thread should be locked mainly because DE needs to handle it. We are no one to dictate what they should and shouldn't do. Maybe if it was more on the lines of understanding what happened then the constant hostility then it would indeed be different. However I agree that understanding reasoning behind actions is human nature, but do NOT compare it to censorship. Locking it enables them to actually deal with it without every third person having an opinion

 

Understand I am not attacking you, so please don't think that. lol

However, any authentication system usually has a pretty reasonable basis behind the actions it takes. For instance, if an anti-spyware detects spyware, it removes or handles it automatically (in most cases)

It's clear that they acknowledge that it COULD be a mistake (on either side), so they are giving a second chance.

My view is entirely of an objective one, I am not saying he's guilty not innocent. Nor am I taking sides on who's right or wrong. Understand that I have administrated so many different forums, webservers, and games that it really is down to pure experience.

Regardless, people need to understand, games are about fun. A person can take any response as hostility. Even this very response. And on that note this is the last post I am going to respond to this thread with because I don't want to be misinterpreted. lol

But most of all, Relax, enjoy and have fun! lol Now, back to maxxing out my Ember!

Edited June 21, 2013 by RavenOfTheFlock

[Aniron]

1.) To think that you have a 'right' to a game because you paid for a service is silly and that's exactly what it sounds like. For instance. Say I go into a game like TF2, buy a weapon. Then grief, harass, and ruin the team sport for every one at every turn, disrespect the administrators et cetera; Does that give me immunity from the games rules? I think not. Respect is a two way street, seeing it from an administrative point of view makes you understand why they have such a strong tone in their response. It's no different then when you say "No, you may not do that, but you MAY do this." Just a few more words.

2.) I've helped develop a few anti-cheats in my day. If EVER there is one that is looking at your antivirus or a defrag program, then it's crossing a very well drawn line that shouldn't be crossed. Searching and authenticating files, the client, the launcher are all standard procedures. The only way to alter those is to alter the code within which would in-turn change the check-sum that the anti-cheat reads from the client. To my knowledge; DE have made many games in their day, their system could very well be so simple that it checks only the checksum because the only reason a person could have to alter that is to have an intent of malice. But what their system does isn't what's important. It's that the OP acknowledges that they will not by any means tolerate any form of alteration which could make the game not fun for other players. To the wrong person the response could be seen as hostility. But tell me, how do you know what their intent behind the response is? It's sort of like someone saying "No I didn't mean that" versus "No, I did NOT MEAN that!" See the difference? It's human nature to not take things at face value and read more into them. It happens.

3.) I had to admit, I had to chuckle a little at this one. Think of it like this, you go into a retailer, run your mouth to the managers, spit nothing but hate and abuse at them. Do you still have the 'privledge' to enter the establishment because you bought a pack of gum in the past? Or, do you they have every right to take their own actions against you? Now how about if it was your own business? Would you ban them? Or let them keep coming in buying things and treating you like trash? If it wasn't a privledge then are you entitled to every game there is regardless? You need to understand where I see the flaw in your reasoning.

4.) This thread should be locked mainly because DE needs to handle it. We are no one to dictate what they should and shouldn't do. Maybe if it was more on the lines of understanding what happened then the constant hostility then it would indeed be different. However I agree that understanding reasoning behind actions is human nature, but do NOT compare it to censorship. Locking it enables them to actually deal with it without every third person having an opinion

Understand I am not attacking you, so please don't think that. lol

However, any authentication system usually has a pretty reasonable basis behind the actions it takes. For instance, if an anti-spyware detects spyware, it removes or handles it automatically (in most cases)

It's clear that they acknowledge that it COULD be a mistake (on either side), so they are giving a second chance.

My view is entirely of an objective one, I am not saying he's guilty not innocent. Nor am I taking sides on who's right or wrong. Understand that I have administrated so many different forums, webservers, and games that it really is down to pure experience.

Regardless, people need to understand, games are about fun. A person can take any response as hostility. Even this very response. And on that note this is the last post I am going to respond to this thread with because I don't want to be misinterpreted. lol

But most of all, Relax, enjoy and have fun! lol Now, back to maxxing out my Ember!

I have a different view on that. And i'm sure you will stand by your point as i will by mine ;-)

Thanks!

Maybe we see each other in the upcoming event :-)

Have fun playing.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Aniron

[Carcharias]

@Raven OfTheFlock

 

Interesting point of view, thank you for a reasonably calm response. Having already stated my opinions I have nothing to add to this discussion.

 

Good day to all !

Edited June 21, 2013 by Carcharias

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

I would just like to take this opportunity to tell everyone that if you get banned, write in your support ticket that you're more than willing to help the devs troubleshoot the issue that led to the cheating tool detecting you. If I had been the OP and been innocent, I would have wanted to prevent this from happening again by helping the devs improve their anti-cheat detection to recognize this behaviour.

[WarG0d]

Came for the rude, left disappointed.

[Ced23Ric]

Moving to General Discussion - this is not feedback on warframes and their abilities.

 

Will forward this to the bosslady for review.

 

PS: Personal opinion, you received a prewritten reply to a dime-a-dozen support ticket. Not to belittle your cause, but you are blowing this out of proportion due to personal interpretation of malice and disrespect that is not there. You are unbanned. Don't run a virus scan (latches on to processes) and defragmentation tools (moves files around at system level) while running Warframe. That is both unsmart from an IT point of view and evidently triggers the protective system.