The Issue with Melee

[Apoc001]

1 minute ago, Epsik-kun said:

Broken War is factually the strongest 1 handed sword in the game.

2 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

if we had at least one viable status 1 handed sword

FTFY

 

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, Apoc001 said:

FTFY

I have no idea what are you trying to fix there. "Sword" is a weapon category. Heavy Blades or Nikanas are categories of their own.

[Apoc001]

Just now, Epsik-kun said:

I have no idea what are you trying to fix there. "Sword" is a weapon category. Heavy Blades or Nikanas are categories of their own.

you called it a longsword, none of the melees in the "Sword" class are longswords

[Epsik-kun]

28 minutes ago, Apoc001 said:

you called it a longsword, none of the melees in the "Sword" class are longswords

It's a habit due to Excal's passive info on the wiki specifying "longswords" for a long time. Not a reason to go into demagoguery, mind you.

[SenariousNex]

Whips are currently the best melee weapons in the game and hammers are the worst. Mobs level bellow 70, can be one-shotted by Scoliac  with highest range and speed. Enemies under 100 by Atterax, with slightly slower speed. Considering that our opinions are on polar opposites, I suggest that every one of these weapons has something different to offer to many different players and play-styles.

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

15 hours ago, Arktourus said:

I think they need to simplify and revisit classes and stances:

1) These are the classes they should have:

Dual Weapons

Heavy Swords/Hammers

Absolutely not.  Broad generic stance categories is the current problem with dual swords and you want to make that worse by combining heavy swords with hammers?

Part of what makes a stance good is that it "fits" a weapon.  Swinging around a 7 foot blade is NOT the same as a much shorter top heavy hammer.  Physical dimensions aside, one is meant to slice and cut while the other smashes.  You can't get more different that that.

Two actual swords (dex dakra) should not play the same as two axes (dual zoren) or two small blades (dual ichor or dual cleavers) or a sword and dagger (nami skyla).

I understand that stances are a lot of work so of course some compromise has to happen with how many weapon categories there are but it is ridiculous that we can have multiple different stances for gunblades (two weapons, one brand new), nikanas (one weapon... cause you'll never use the inferior version of the same thing), claws, etc while a huge category like dual swords has two very mediocre stances that seem like they are practically the same.

So yes, I agree that they need to revisit categories but want them to go in the complete opposite direction.

[Slaviar]

6 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

You can, but that won't make you correct. Broken War is factually the strongest long sword in the game. If you think that Prisma Skana can outperform it due to slightly better crit stats - you are wrong. The difference won't compensate for almost x3 base damage difference. If you think that Bright Purity can do that - you are wrong yet again, as it is a bad mod for damage purposes most of the time, and all of the time for a Blood Rush build.

5% extra crit chance and 0.5 higher multiplier doesn't look like much but it scales better with Blood Rush. Prisma Skana can easily get into red crit zone. And I don't use Bright Purity.

Of course Broken War is very good sword. Never claimed it's bad, I just don't consider it to be best sword though Prisma Skana wins by very small margin

Edited September 16, 2016 by Slaviar
Misread post

[Epsik-kun]

6 hours ago, Slaviar said:

Prisma Skana wins by very small margin

It doesn't. Even on x4 combo multiplie Broken War will still have like 40% extra dps compared to Prisma Skana.

[ScorpioneITA]

On 9/12/2016 at 4:16 PM, (PS4)SuperShadic445 said:

Swords:
The most abundant weapon type, so it has its pros. and cons. Not to mention the abundance of stances.

They should excel at attack speed a bit more imo, perhaps some higher stats.

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Sword and Shields:
Let´s be honest with our selves. These things suck. They look so cool, but the suck so hard it isn´t even funny. The Final Harbinger mod helps a bit, but the class is overall just lacking horribly.

Well the ack brunt is okay with the exclusive mod. I feel like we need more 'defensive' melee mods to make these work. (also hate how these provide 80% block same as hammers etc not making it in anyway unique)

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Dual Swords:
A well balanced class that has enough weapons to cover the spectrum of needs. Just like the single counterpart, you´re going to find something for your needs in this class

I find them a bit... meh. With exception of:

Dual Kamas P are great DPS. they are more of a singular dps than crowd. With shattering impact [-armor on hit] they can destroy an enemy's armor in 10-20seconds. Making it great for certain bosses without requiring CP. Also procs bleeding + great for solo bosses/sorties etc. (not sure why they are dual swords... cause no dual scyte category?)

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Nikanas:
For the longest time the Dragon Nikana was the top tier pick of the trade. Even with this new generation of Melees, it still holds its own with the best of them. On top of that, the Nikana Prime is straight up better and one of the most powerful melees in game.

Why pick a sword when a Nikana does outperforms. They should have different stats focus and perhaps unique effects.

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Fists:
Another crappy weapon type. They suffer from low damage and horrid range. The only way to do something useful with these, is to knock over your opponent, look down, and finisher them. Too much effort in late game.

I'm surprised these don't provide one of the most damage. They require you to get up and personal. (should also include a neckbreaker finisher :D)

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Sparring:
Same as fists only with knee guards.

Just an extra not needed category.

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Daggers:
Without CL suck. Even then, this is an extremely limited mod, needing finisher or stealth damage to activate. At least buff the base damage to compensate for people who don´t have the mod.

If every hit from behind would have a X percent chance for finisher, would be ''okay''. I don't mind having a weapon or 2 based on finisher only.

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Dual Daggers:
Why do these still exist. They´re completely crap. Everything about them suck. How many times have you seen someone use these seriously in say, a sortie or raid. Never. These things need a lot of fixing

Just an extra category, might as well have dual and single as one. Else provide some function (like i mentioned in other stuff before)

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Hammers:
This class suffers from TOO much love. I main these and Jesus H. Christ, these things are like the pinnacle of weapons. Nearly every single weapon here is a great weapon besides the standard Fragor and Magistar (even then these things are still decent to use.) Not only have you shown a hell of a lot of love to these things (you reworked them, and then on top of that, you give the Jat Kittag an augment to make it even more of a slaughter fest) but each one has been more powerful than the last! I fear for the other factions when the Kittag Wraith finally drops.

I mean the Jat Kittag is great, I love my fragor P the most. 1.8Channeling multiplier, exclusive 2400% multiplier finisher. Just a multi purpose/versatile weapon. I hate they share same animation as heavy blades.

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Heavy Blades:
Just like hammers. So much friggin' love. Literally, only TWO bad apples in the bunch. High damage coupled with the stances that cut down multiple foes at a time more than makes up for the lower DPS than the smaller counterparts.

The range is and high dps is the reason they are so loved. I prefer my fragor tho..

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Polearms:
Let´s be honest here. These are all reskins of each other with slight adjustments to the base stats and occasional elements thrown in.

Well plenty of melee are like that. However like most melees, they don't offer ultimate dps:range nor a outstanding stat/mechanic.

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Claws:
All the cool looks of death with almost none of the killing potential. They´re okay, but they could be better.

See fists above. Pretty much same thing.

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Scythes:
These things need lots of love. The stances are great but....subpar DPS can´t really make the stances valid. The only DECENT Scythe is the Anku and even then you won´t be in sorties with it without some sort of frame build to help augment it.

Meh, same as most of melees. Nothing special, lacks dps range and uniqueness.

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Glaives:
I almost forgot these things exist. They do have a range advantage, but that´s about it. You´ll probably be chewed apart waiting for the thing to finally come back to you. They´re average everywhere else really.

If i want range I'm better off with a gunblade. They don't offer much damage. Perhaps a unique "if headshot = auto kill" kinda feature would be coolish?

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Whips:
Arguably one of the worst classes in game. Seriously, you´ve ruined lots of Female Warframe players dream of becoming a kinky space dominatrix, whipping the Grineer into submission while in an all black Nyx constantly shouting ¨Tora! Tora! Tora!" as the cloned men and women fall at your feet. 
....Too much? Sorry, couldn´t help myself.

They move so slow and don't do much damage. I expect a whip to be fast and dancing with range causing some sort of cc whilst using it or slow and powerful. Not the worst of 2 worlds.

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Tonfas:
Great....if you like vomiting from motion sickness because you spun more than Sonic The Hedgehog just to clear a room. I´m honestly okay with this though.

Just bit boring. Least the specialize in something.

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Nunchucks:
These things are...weird...to say the least. The range is so weird. I can see the hit numbers but it doesn´t feel like I´m actually hitting something. A class that needs work indeed.

I don't mind, and they excel at something, status dealing. Least one of them did forgot name. Some cooler longer range hits in combo would be nice. Can also finish MOAs

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Gunblades:
Fun to use but not exactly the best of classes. Another average class at best.

They are great for shooting more than melee honestly. The stances are a bit meh. I often just charge shots and aim for the head. Extremely nice in melee only sortie

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Bladewhip:
It´s a fun sort of class but it´s too early to judge it.

Kinda same as whips. If not a bit worse. I was excited to see the high status, then I used one.... instant max n sell.

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Rapier:

Same as above

Haven't used one yet. The stats seem meh. The stance seems to behave more like a sword than a rapier in videos.

 

That's my 2cents

[shut]

On 9/12/2016 at 9:16 AM, (PS4)SuperShadic445 said:

Whips:
Arguably one of the worst classes in game.

Ahaha, I love this thread.

The Atterax is arguably the best crowd-demolishing melee weapon in the game and makes the Tonkor look like a pea shooter when built properly. But why bother taking that into account when base stats clearly give you all the information you need?

[shawazz]

9 hours ago, ScorpioneITA said:

 

Kinda same as whips. If not a bit worse. I was excited to see the high status, then I used one.... instant max n 

 

That's my 2cents

Are you saying the mios with its high damage, and cc potential (plus fun) is just mastery fodder and not a viable weapon? Wow.

[Necrius]

I like using Ninkondi on my Loki while I'm hunting for CL, I even placed a lens on it (not the wisest decision, though).

[Slaviar]

11 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

It doesn't. Even on x4 combo multiplie Broken War will still have like 40% extra dps compared to Prisma Skana.

In pure damage build, yes. But majority of builds use Life Strike and BR+BC crit builds are slot hungry.

And I assume you take values from warframe-builder? It's imprecise when calculating damage for crit melee weapons

[ScorpioneITA]

4 hours ago, shawazz said:

Are you saying the mios with its high damage, and cc potential (plus fun) is just mastery fodder and not a viable weapon? Wow.

Have you used it? Personally I felt the animation was rather slow and clunky.

Not sure what you define ''high'' damage. I'm to used to my melees not having a problem with level 150+ enemies.

[Epsik-kun]

2 hours ago, Slaviar said:

In pure damage build, yes. But majority of builds use Life Strike and BR+BC crit builds are slot hungry.

And I assume you take values from warframe-builder? It's imprecise when calculating damage for crit melee weapons

In any damage build.

No, I know how to do these calculations myself. And these calculations assume the same build for both weapons - bloodrush build.

[Slaviar]

1 hour ago, Epsik-kun said:

In any damage build.

No, I know how to do these calculations myself. And these calculations assume the same build for both weapons - bloodrush build.

Well, you are right after all, I was making a mistake in the calculations. Silly me.

[Laidain]

This is one post I HEAVILY disagree with.

[Profit62]

I have actually always liked the fangprime....but it being a prime they should've aleast given more damage ..i mean thats why primes are primes