Control Archwing

[Ivander.od]

Current achwing controls are disgusting!
Corridor missions are annoying and totally not fun.
My proposal: there always must be some "normal" position our frame assumes during the flight. When we fly around we move freely with the current conrols, but when we press, e.g., Spacebar or other key, we resume this "normal" position. This will help us to have better orientation and prevent getting totally lost. Now it is possible to become absolutely disoriented in any tile that features open spaces, it's hard to find objects and loot.

Also, the map is not keeping track of our progress through the level right. Our frame changes its position while the map shows the "normal" position.

 

[Alcoholism]

4 minutes ago, Ivander.od said:

there always must be some "normal" position our frame assumes during the flight.

Agreed.

I felt like I was going to get a migraine after just one mission - I haven't been back to archwing since.

[mob9221]

Current archwing in corridors: Press space to die D:

[Hans.Yulian]

Agreed, i posted about this right away whet SOTR come before, but nothing change until now

[Aedwynn]

That's a shameless excuse, not a six-degree freedom. I can't even comprehend how this crap ended in game. DE, you better revert controls back to how they were, current controls desorient player quite quickly. Not to mention doing this crap without a proper 3D map serves only to confuse and disorient player even more.

[Spiros78]

  The dev who made these disgusting changes in control of arhcwings, thinks he's also a spaceship pilot and knows how ships behave in space, he tried hard to add "realism"... which would be ok if someone wanted to learn to fly with a parachute ! 1-2 changes are ok, the rest control is totally lost, but who cares..

[Medane]

Warframe is not the game for babby's first envoy into the development/gameplay of 6DOF controls in space.  As someone who has played a significant amount of Elite Dangerous and knows their way around true 6DOF gameplay, Warframe is doing it 100% wrong and should focus on improving a strong simple base instead of a complicated and poor initial investment of time and work into this new flight system (read: use the old sodding flight system).  I am not a game developer, but I like to think I know my way around game design while acknowledging the challenges developers have to face, but onto my actual main points.  
I will first focus on describing what's wrong about the new system, before concluding with why it should be reverted to the old one.

A: Everything wrong with the New System.

1.  The Camera (and rolling), who designed a 6DOF camera with no overt ability to roll?  Rolling contains 2 of the 6 axis of orientation in 6DOF, but it is completely neglected.  It is extremely important to give players (and frankly anyone with 6DOF) control over as much as possible.  The lack of being able to orient oneself makes it extremely difficult to navigate tight corridors of Corpus tilesets and creates nonsensical maneuvering methods in open space when combined with 6DOF. The point to highlight there is that you must perform unintuitive maneuvers to traverse similar locations and areas because of your inability to orient, making for obnoxious gameplay at best, and sickening at worst. I never get nauseous in Elite Dangerous, but Warframe damn near made me get a headache when trying to fly through corpus tilesets with my head unconsciously tilting towards the "upwards" orientation.  That is some horribly thought out game design.    
2. Inertia.  This is arguably one of the worst parts of the new system.  If you even dare boost forward, you can expect to drift farther than your actual acceleration distance, resulting in highly imprecise controls that cause you to bump everywhere.  It is not possible to compensate for them because it is not true 0G maneuverability for one, and you cannot control your thrust.  This is an example of true 6DOF, 0G maneuvering by one of the best pilots in Elite Dangerous, and makes it look like they're simply under the guise of automated control due to their skill and ability to manipulate their ship.  
3. Horrible controls compared to the first design.  This ties into the first 2, but is also separate in its own right.  First off, the animations were all designed with the original archwing in design.  The boost function used to activate immediately, but now the space bar also controls upward vertical thrust and only activates boost after leaving that animation.  More often than not, the boost will send you speeding upwards or in other directions.  Combined with inertia as described in #2, this results in horrific control and a complete inability to precisely maneuver.  
   1. In addition you can no longer activate your own "drift" in space, as you used to in the old design.  Hitting control after boosting with shift in the old archwing allowed you to drift for a long while, making use of your speed but also gave you the ability to shoot.  It made for intuitive and easy to pick up on with the movement system I'm sure most people are used to.  Now you control ONLY controls vertical down thrust.  This actually makes combat more sluggish in space because while you have more average inertia than before, you actually now have no decision over it.  Either you hold shift and boost everywhere while shooting (making controls more difficult to do with more buttons to press, while also being at the mercy of the camera angle) or you you can move around more slowly with the arrow keys only like in the old archwing.  The removal of being able to "slide" in space has broken up the gameplay speed tremendously and removes control from the player.

In summary, everything about the old system was better and more intuitive.  The new system is only superficially and arbitrarily more "complicated."  It is not an example of good gameplay, nor good gameplay design.  In conclusion,  I think the only reasonable thing to do is to give the option to toggle the old movement system or remove the new one entirely.  Building off of a solid, if even simple foundation (the old system) is easier than trying to fix and build on a (put bluntly) horrifically designed one that we currently have.  

[(PSN)Indio_PR84]

On 10/4/2016 at 3:42 PM, Medane said:

Warframe is not the game for babby's first envoy into the development/gameplay of 6DOF controls in space.  As someone who has played a significant amount of Elite Dangerous and knows their way around true 6DOF gameplay, Warframe is doing it 100% wrong and should focus on improving a strong simple base instead of a complicated and poor initial investment of time and work into this new flight system (read: use the old sodding flight system).  I am not a game developer, but I like to think I know my way around game design while acknowledging the challenges developers have to face, but onto my actual main points.  
I will first focus on describing what's wrong about the new system, before concluding with why it should be reverted to the old one.

A: Everything wrong with the New System.

1.  The Camera (and rolling), who designed a 6DOF camera with no overt ability to roll?  Rolling contains 2 of the 6 axis of orientation in 6DOF, but it is completely neglected.  It is extremely important to give players (and frankly anyone with 6DOF) control over as much as possible.  The lack of being able to orient oneself makes it extremely difficult to navigate tight corridors of Corpus tilesets and creates nonsensical maneuvering methods in open space when combined with 6DOF. The point to highlight there is that you must perform unintuitive maneuvers to traverse similar locations and areas because of your inability to orient, making for obnoxious gameplay at best, and sickening at worst. I never get nauseous in Elite Dangerous, but Warframe damn near made me get a headache when trying to fly through corpus tilesets with my head unconsciously tilting towards the "upwards" orientation.  That is some horribly thought out game design.    
2. Inertia.  This is arguably one of the worst parts of the new system.  If you even dare boost forward, you can expect to drift farther than your actual acceleration distance, resulting in highly imprecise controls that cause you to bump everywhere.  It is not possible to compensate for them because it is not true 0G maneuverability for one, and you cannot control your thrust.  This is an example of true 6DOF, 0G maneuvering by one of the best pilots in Elite Dangerous, and makes it look like they're simply under the guise of automated control due to their skill and ability to manipulate their ship.  
3. Horrible controls compared to the first design.  This ties into the first 2, but is also separate in its own right.  First off, the animations were all designed with the original archwing in design.  The boost function used to activate immediately, but now the space bar also controls upward vertical thrust and only activates boost after leaving that animation.  More often than not, the boost will send you speeding upwards or in other directions.  Combined with inertia as described in #2, this results in horrific control and a complete inability to precisely maneuver.  
   1. In addition you can no longer activate your own "drift" in space, as you used to in the old design.  Hitting control after boosting with shift in the old archwing allowed you to drift for a long while, making use of your speed but also gave you the ability to shoot.  It made for intuitive and easy to pick up on with the movement system I'm sure most people are used to.  Now you control ONLY controls vertical down thrust.  This actually makes combat more sluggish in space because while you have more average inertia than before, you actually now have no decision over it.  Either you hold shift and boost everywhere while shooting (making controls more difficult to do with more buttons to press, while also being at the mercy of the camera angle) or you you can move around more slowly with the arrow keys only like in the old archwing.  The removal of being able to "slide" in space has broken up the gameplay speed tremendously and removes control from the player.

In summary, everything about the old system was better and more intuitive.  The new system is only superficially and arbitrarily more "complicated."  It is not an example of good gameplay, nor good gameplay design.  In conclusion,  I think the only reasonable thing to do is to give the option to toggle the old movement system or remove the new one entirely.  Building off of a solid, if even simple foundation (the old system) is easier than trying to fix and build on a (put bluntly) horrifically designed one that we currently have.  

just go like Ace Combat and we are good...lol