Remove Morphics From Vor

[Xylia]

Sigh...just because it's PEBCAK does not mean the game can not change to try and help prevent/solve the issue. This is kind of like being against allowing key bindings to be changed. The game works in its own right, but a little bit of change can go a long way.

 

Keybindings allow people with certain medical problems to use the game easier.

Keybindings allow people to use other equipment (Razer Nostromo, and other similar devices) easier with Warframe.

Keybindings allow people to customize their UI.

 

This isn't like something that is not doing very much harm at all, and on the off-chance it does, it is simply because the player doing it isn't educated enough to not do it.

 

If you want to compare something, compare removing Morphics from Vor to something like outlawing V8 engines in Cars IRL because some people use them to drive above the speed limit (since, yanno, your average v6 car can go above the speed limit even uphill while loaded with passengers/cargo).

[Enot83]

Keybindings allow people with certain medical problems to use the game easier.

Keybindings allow people to use other equipment (Razer Nostromo, and other similar devices) easier with Warframe.

Keybindings allow people to customize their UI.

 

This isn't like something that is not doing very much harm at all, and on the off-chance it does, it is simply because the player doing it isn't educated enough to not do it.

 

If you want to compare something, compare removing Morphics from Vor to something like outlawing V8 engines in Cars IRL because some people use them to drive above the speed limit (since, yanno, your average v6 car can go above the speed limit even uphill while loaded with passengers/cargo).

 

This at its most basic level, is simply about good design vs bad design.  Good design would not have created this problem in the first place.  Your analogy is incorrect.  This is like designing a road with a posted speed limit of 65 mph on a road with a 60ft radius with no embankment, then wondering why cars fly off the road, and your response is.  "Well if we just educated people about this turn, they wouldn't do that, because they would take this other road".  Better idea, if you didn't design a bad road, you wouldn't have the problem.

 

Next time if you're going to make an analogy at least do it right.

 

Edit:  While I understand the point you're trying to make, and don't disagree entirely that educating people would help.  The problem is you have two noob groups clashing, one that is just ignorant when they shouldn't be and the other, new players.  If the goal is to make a new player's experience positive, then that should be primary concern, so your design should be around that.

 

As has been said, by most of us who know better, you can farm Morphics in other locations, and its no big deal having 1 location removed, because, as even you said, its better to do it in a different spot anyways, so why would you want it to stay?  You're basically arguing to keep a bad design, only because its already there, changing the Cronus material requirement along with removal of morphics, or simply the removal of it from his drop table, but keeping it in that region, or any other number of solutions, will make the experience far more positive for new players.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Enot83

[Xylia]

You still haven't told me what you think should be in Morphics' place, though.

 

You need SOME Rare material to drop in Mercury.

 

And I just don't really see why you'd stick Gallium in there, that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever; you'll end up with the same problem (higher leveled players rushing Vor for Gallium instead of Morphics) all over again, right?

 

No matter what you stick in there, people are going to do the same thing.

 

And I'm still not seeing this..... "Problem"..... you're speaking of. Better they get used to people rushing bosses now; they're going to have to deal with this no matter what boss they run because people do this at ALL bosses.

 

Should we remove all of their resources, too?

[Sir.R.Tea]

Adding a rank limit will not stop high levels from farming low levels....at all. You're also not really taking the material away from the low level. You would be moving it from Vor to just Anyo and Ambulas. The Cronus, would no longer require Morphics, and all would be well. By the time they reach the point that they want to make a new weapon, Anyo will be within reach and if they were really lucky with drops, they could even attempt Ambulas.

 

Honestly I don't know why Stalker drops don't require something like Nanospores(yea I know Dread) or Circuits instead of Ferrite anyways.

 

Ok? i dunno whats the problem of high lv farming low lv. It is basically... nothing... tbh all the bosses on the map are really easy to kill. There is no difficulty for those who already have good weapons and frame, meaning Vor or not we all get what we need.

 

I don't see the problem here. If your just tired of playing an easy game then its problem for you not for others. I also think this game needs more challenges but right now other then soloing Void T3 everything else is so easy. Also i find harder bosses drop more rare materials then lower lv boss. for example, i farm Orkin cell from Khril then Ruk, my experience tells Ruk drops orkin cell less chance then Khril.

 

i don't see the problem here, and i don't know why u want to take Vor out from material drops.

 

If your thinking op weapons are too easy to get and not ranked at all, then im with u, i also think some weapons need to be rank limited and so. other then that.... is just not really a problem.

[Sir.R.Tea]

Are you serious? How are you people not understanding what I'm trying to get across.

 

I'm not talking about high levels being ABLE to run Vor fast.

I'm not talking about how long or short it takes to FARM Morphics.

I'm not talking about how people should play solo or avoid online when they are FARMING.

I'm not talking about taking away your ability to farm a rare material.

I'm not talking about screwing over low levels.

 

I'm talking about the first boss experience of the game getting absolutely ruined by high level players farming for their high level weapon materials that comes from a VERY low level source.

I'm talking about how low level players don't get to even SEE the boss.

I'm talking about how low level players are just getting blown out of the water while the game is still BRAND NEW to them.

 

The "complaint" as you're calling it, rather than a suggestion(which btw, this has nothing to do with me needing morphics, I've already farmed my 50 or however many I needed), is two-fold. 1) High level weapons should require materials that can only be attained at high levels and 2) do not incentivize high level players to play with low level players, especially people that don't even have a basic grasp of the game yet.

 

This is not solved by me or anyone else strictly playing solo.

This is not solved by me or anyone else choosing to farm higher level areas instead.

 

Am I clear now? Or are we still reading the title and then immediately posting while making assumptions over what I'm "complaining" about?

 

Ok, i see ur point here. you are right that higher lv people joining game of random low lv game will just make game too easy and such, most likely they will just rush it to boss and end the game.

 

But... is there really those people who do such thing?(Yes, there is...sadly) dunno about others but as rank 7 player who go solo Khril in game... i don't join random boss farm. reason is basically those who started new will slow down the game, and reason u said.

 

also there is drop rate for higher lv boss. said it on the other comment im positive Khril drops Orkin cell way better then Ruk. and so does other harder bosses(not sure if this is luck but i do farm materials alot due to making all weapons in game). If its not, then basically setting higher drop rate for harder boss could solve this problem, i guess.

 

for those weapon i dunno why ur bringing this up. if u think they are too easy to obtain, it can be fixed by setting rank like the other weapons, make it rank 5 or 6. other then that... i dont see relation with the topic high lv player invading low lv player game.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Sir.R.Tea

[Sir.R.Tea]

If game is already not like this, Possible solution.

 

Make material drops rate noticeable

 

Morphic drop chance from boss

 

Vor : 20%

 

Anyo : 50%

 

Ambula : 80%

 

Apply it to rest of boss for drop rate, then basically higher rank players will rather kill Ambula then Vor. Make them want to kill harder boss by guaranteeing what they are looking for.

[theammostore]

If game is already not like this, Possible solution.

 

Make material drops rate noticeable

 

Morphic drop chance from boss

 

Vor : 20%

 

Anyo : 50%

 

Ambula : 80%

 

Apply it to rest of boss for drop rate, then basically higher rank players will rather kill Ambula then Vor. Make them want to kill harder boss by guaranteeing what they are looking for.

Not always. Vor is faster to kill than Ambulas for people who don't have crazy power weapons, like me. No crazy annoying powers, nothing that could slow me down on killing him, just whip in, kite him around a bit, collect my reward, then zip off to freedom.

[Zyfe3rX]

WDF are you talkings about?

 

Almost everything need morphics. Its a rare mat used in everything >:3

 

Even for clan keys. So you are saying, new players must travel to Pluto to get a morphics so they can craft a key? hell no !

[Sir.R.Tea]

Not always. Vor is faster to kill than Ambulas for people who don't have crazy power weapons, like me. No crazy annoying powers, nothing that could slow me down on killing him, just whip in, kite him around a bit, collect my reward, then zip off to freedom.

 

... there is no way to separating all the players by what they have and not. Also with major drop rate difference people who has the ability will go for higher boss then go after weak boss... unless if  u want to run Vor 10 times just to get one Morphic, when u can just do 3 runs on Anyo. If u cant solo then go online with other people to hunt harder boss. there is reason why DE made this game to play in group.

[philleapa]

Well this is a happy little argument why don't we just leave at this : If any of the noobs are actually committed to the game then they have common sense to come and post the problem themselves, right now and not trying to sound too rude here but i am seeing a pretentious know it all who thinks he knows what newbies are going through, if you have a complaint share it no problem thats how this game grows but its not really affecting you now is it?, so grow up get over the issue i haven't seen one post about a noob hating rushers rushing to end to kill vor because you know what this doesn't really happen that often, and this happened to me when i was a noob and i was actually happy i didn't have to do any work and just learned a bit more about the game, anyways last statement was my self experience rather than me assuming everyone would rather the boss be killed for them, OP i acknowledge your worry for the newbies in this game but they can handle it otherwise they will never learn how to play with this game properly or know how to deal with certain things in this game very properly like some annoying rushers who don't ask if rushing or searching or who ignore everyone and run on their own.

[Enot83]

You still haven't told me what you think should be in Morphics' place, though.

 

You need SOME Rare material to drop in Mercury.

 

And I just don't really see why you'd stick Gallium in there, that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever; you'll end up with the same problem (higher leveled players rushing Vor for Gallium instead of Morphics) all over again, right?

 

No matter what you stick in there, people are going to do the same thing.

 

And I'm still not seeing this..... "Problem"..... you're speaking of. Better they get used to people rushing bosses now; they're going to have to deal with this no matter what boss they run because people do this at ALL bosses.

 

Should we remove all of their resources, too?

You don't see a problem, but you say people need to be educated... hrmmm so which is it then? either it exists, and people need to be educated, or it doesn't exist thus, people don't need to be educated.

 

In reality, no rare needs to drop from him, this is a flawed line of thinking based on nothing more than what you are used to seeing.  In addition, this is the first boss, and correct me if I'm wrong but the only boss that you MUST fight in order to progress.  If he were not on the path that HAD to be completed to progress, there would likely be far less an issue.  Your argument that every boss is the case is wrong, for two reasons, one like I just said, you must play him, and you must play his level if you wish to progress, secondly, while people will experience farming on other bosses that may be similar, it will not be their first boss experience, when as a company you are wanting to make people have a desire to play by making the experience enjoyable.

 

 

Well this is a happy little argument why don't we just leave at this : If any of the noobs are actually committed to the game then they have common sense to come and post the problem themselves, right now and not trying to sound too rude here but i am seeing a pretentious know it all who thinks he knows what newbies are going through, if you have a complaint share it no problem thats how this game grows but its not really affecting you now is it?, so grow up get over the issue i haven't seen one post about a noob hating rushers rushing to end to kill vor because you know what this doesn't really happen that often, and this happened to me when i was a noob and i was actually happy i didn't have to do any work and just learned a bit more about the game, anyways last statement was my self experience rather than me assuming everyone would rather the boss be killed for them, OP i acknowledge your worry for the newbies in this game but they can handle it otherwise they will never learn how to play with this game properly or know how to deal with certain things in this game very properly like some annoying rushers who don't ask if rushing or searching or who ignore everyone and run on their own.

Again, if the point for DE is to make the experience enjoyable so players stick around for more than 5 levels, it is in their interest to make sure that it is enjoyable.  Furthermore, most people who would be those posting about this, are the people who will simply uninstall the game and move on, this is a free game, and for many if they try a free game and are met immediately with unpleasant play, chances of them staying around are far less.

 

So what is your point, do you want to just stand there and say "its not that big of a deal" because you think this has no impact on new players at all negatively, or do you see the point (at least I'm trying to make) about how this is more about good game design and making sure that you grab your audience and give them an enjoyable experience.

 

 

WDF are you talkings about?

 

Almost everything need morphics. Its a rare mat used in everything >:3

 

Even for clan keys. So you are saying, new players must travel to Pluto to get a morphics so they can craft a key? hell no !

The fact that you think you need to go to pluto for morphics basically made anything you could possibly say worthless.  It has already been pointed out that Mars is the better place to go, to me, you sound like one of the people Xylia is talking about who needs to be educated... /facepalm.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Enot83

[VoidWraith]

Its kinda funny seeing the op complain about new players lagging behind or exploring in a newbie planet. yes it can be annoying, but since it is a newbie planet, couldnt you have set it to private/solo/invite only? it IS a newbie planet/boss afterall, and like you said, you get to the boss first and basically kill it yourself, im guessing, and then leave for extraction. like some have suggested, just do anyo or ambulas with others. but dont complain about joining a newbie planet, where newbies are expected to be there.

 

dont expect others to play the way you play and others shouldnt expect the same from you. adaptation is nice, and avoids all the grief, but not everyone wants to "change styles just cuz theres more newbies/people with different play style  than me, that i have to change just to make them happy and me pissed off" instead of complaining what others should do, you can do what you can do yourself, like play with your friends/clans/solo.... any excuse you make such as "i dont have alot of friends, my clan members are usually busy or offline, friends usually offline" those excuses can be used by others as well.

 

raging wont help the community. just accept that people have different play styles, and move on. its not the end of the world.

[AndiNaga]

i under stand this debate is about why you think, vor shouldnt drop morphics, but look at it this way,
but in the end, people are still ganna rush and new players still may have times when rushing happens,
i my self like playing the lower levels with my lv 30 Ash online, its fun to play with newer players and try out new lv0-10 weapons,
and if the new players get downed i res them, i dont hear any of them complaning, for having me there,
you can really change a something like this for something so trivial, and if your wondering,...
if your ganna rush and do a mophics run, its easyer on mars with Anyo, rather than on Vor
Morphics drops more often on Mars, also Anyo runs ive completed in 2-3 minutes due to Corpus having more linear levels,
where Grineer levels are more puzzle like, and a run on Vor takes 3-5 minutes usualy,
now ive done both these runs and yes was killing things as i ran along so these arnt pure runs,
but think about it Vor and Anyo, nether garentee an 100% chance at getting morphics,
so whats the fuss about, new players missing out on an experiance, well that happens some time,
but not as often as you would think, if it is a big issue DE will look into it and fix it, if not then it will stay the same,
 

O and one final side note,
it is possable to solo Anyo,
with a lv 10 lato, with seration and deep freeze,
and a lv 10 Skana, with only nothern winds and sundering strike,
just sayan,..

Edited June 28, 2013 by AndiNaga

[VoidWraith]

i under stand this debate is about why you think, vor shouldnt drop morphics, but look at it this way,

people could debate on this all day, but in the end, people are still ganna rush and new players still may have times when rushing happens,

i my self like running the lower levels with my lv 30 Ash online, its fun to play with the new players and try out my new lv 0-10 weapons,

and if the new players get downed i res them, i dont hear any of them complaning, for having me their,

you can really change a something like this for something so trivial, and if your wondering,...

if your ganna rush and do a mophics run, its easyer on mars with Anyo, rather than on Vor

Morphics drops more often on Mars, also most Anyo runs ive down ive completes in 2-3 minutes due to Corpus having more linear levels,

where Grineer levels are more puzzle like, and a run on Vor takes 3-5 minutes, ive done both these runs and yes was willing things as i ran along,

but think about it Vor and Anyo, nether garentee an 100% chance at geting morphics, so whats the fuss about, new players getting screwed?

because i dont hear the masses crying out for my head, and if they did id just cut them down then res them, thats what being a good sport is about,

 

 

^this

+1 for you.

[Ghobe]

Ugh...I'm starting to really get tired of having to help you people try to see the point I'm making.

 

This isn't about rusher vs explorer.

This isn't about slow vs fast.

This isn't about the fact that Vor drops a rare material at all, no matter what that material is or could be changed to.

This isn't about how farming Vor is not good enough, nor if it is too good.

This is about the interaction low level players are having with the game.

This is about the interaction between a clueless player and an uber decked out player.

 

You people act like I'm making this issue up. I'm really not.

1-The noob experience; So you appear in your first game, and the other 3 guys around you sprint off while the cinematic plays, their probably farming ferrite and in high gear / high speed frames , But you don't know that, 

So the first few games consist of trying to sprint after your fast disappearing team and then trying to stay in XP range as long as you can, then a boring stroll through empty corridors waiting for the clock to appear and tick down, or if your unlucky running into the huge stream of mobs the guys infront just spawned and ran past.

 

first impressions matter and i bet its hurting your new player retention.

Source June 26th.

^This is just a recent example. No it does not specifically talk about Vor, but it does touch on another subject that was brought up. Ferrite farming. Remember Hate and Despair? 5k ferrite each. Introduced last major update. One of which is arguably the most powerful weapon in the game for its slot.

 

A new player to a game, especially in what is deemed the noob zone, should not be subjected to high level players high speed farming regardless if better farming areas exist.

 

i under stand this debate

Not in the least.

 

Enot is making a lot of good points about reasons as to why this change should happen.

[Xyfer]

What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

it means that removing morphic from vor is counterproductive, and will only introduce more dissatisfied players.

[JustDont]

A new player to a game, especially in what is deemed the noob zone, should not be subjected to high level players high speed farming regardless if better farming areas exist.

Good, now think of a reasonable solution to this.

 

I mean, reasonable as not in "let's just remove ALL resource drops from low level areas, that'll teach them!"

[Balvedius]

If some of the newer people don't like being in games with the higher ranked people just rushing to the bosses, set a matchmaking where they don't get matched together.

 

Think of this like D3 before they decided to changed how gold drops work. If people want to spend their time smashing barrels and pots for gold, let them. They aren't wasting your time. If they decide that they want more of a challenge for their rewards then they'll go up higher.

[notionphil]

Are you serious? How are you people not understanding what I'm trying to get across.

 

I'm not talking about high levels being ABLE to run Vor fast.

I'm not talking about how long or short it takes to FARM Morphics.

I'm not talking about how people should play solo or avoid online when they are FARMING.

I'm not talking about taking away your ability to farm a rare material.

I'm not talking about screwing over low levels.

 

I'm talking about the first boss experience of the game getting absolutely ruined by high level players farming for their high level weapon materials that comes from a VERY low level source.

I'm talking about how low level players don't get to even SEE the boss.

I'm talking about how low level players are just getting blown out of the water while the game is still BRAND NEW to them.

 

The "complaint" as you're calling it, rather than a suggestion(which btw, this has nothing to do with me needing morphics, I've already farmed my 50 or however many I needed), is two-fold. 1) High level weapons should require materials that can only be attained at high levels and 2) do not incentivize high level players to play with low level players, especially people that don't even have a basic grasp of the game yet.

 

This is not solved by me or anyone else strictly playing solo.

This is not solved by me or anyone else choosing to farm higher level areas instead.

 

Am I clear now? Or are we still reading the title and then immediately posting while making assumptions over what I'm "complaining" about?

 

This thread is so frustrating....

 

<sarcasm>

 

Don't ruin our primary reason for runing the first climactic game experience for every single new player! It's somehow better that way!

 

</sarcasm>

[notionphil]

Good, now think of a reasonable solution to this.

 

I mean, reasonable as not in "let's just remove ALL resource drops from low level areas, that'll teach them!"

 

actually that is how many games work. High level characters don't normally need to farm the starter area for rare materials...

 

why isn't that reasonable? Not low level, just starter, the first system. Why not let that system be a noob only zone?

[Troublechutor]

More to the point, people arging to preserve the status quo... why is vor dropping quality mats better than vor being uninteresting except to new players as a first challenge?

 

Note, I said BETTER.  

 

If your only answer is that you like to farm vor for mats because its easy to speed run, then perhaps you should read the OP again because you're basically confirming the problem!

Edited June 28, 2013 by Troublechutor

[Xylia]

actually that is how many games work. High level characters don't normally need to farm the starter area for rare materials...

 

why isn't that reasonable? Not low level, just starter, the first system. Why not let that system be a noob only zone?

 

Well, because, when you have an Unranked new warframe you just built, you're probably not going to waltz into Venus or Saturn with 75-100 shields.

 

Where do I go?

 

Mercury.

 

Do I want Morphics to be removed from Mercury/Captain Vor?

 

Absolutely not.

 

I'll hang in Mercury, bring some non-30 (but decently leveled) weapon for backup, bring a couple weak weapons to get XP on, and go to town in Mercury.

 

Of course I do this in Solo mode, but I can understand if some higher level players do it Online, since you get better XP if you don't go Solo.

 

Still.

 

I don't want one of the only perks of going to Mercury/Vor being removed.

[Troublechutor]

If you are leveling up a new frame, the perk of going to mercury is not staring at mission failed text every 3 minutes ;)

 

The key point here is rushing vor, not farming in mercury with fresh gear (which is more a requirement than a suggestion).  Rushing vor for mats isn't even a problem except when noobs get paired up with experienced rushing players.

 

The OP is pointing out this issue and suggesting that the incentives for experienced mat-farming vor rapists might be best removed so that the new guys can have some fun in the new guy zone.

[Ghobe]

I don't want one of the only perks of going to Mercury/Vor being removed.

I pose a question to you and everyone else fighting for this point here.

 

If Vor did not already drop Morphics, would you be fighting to push for him to drop it? If your answer yes, then why aren't you fighting for Jackal to drop his own rare resource?

[F43AK]

Simply put, rather than take a rare material away from players starting out, just raise the chances even higher on other planets, again if you're fighting for new player experience, why make it so they can't build their first item the Cronus(IIRC) without getting level 30? Lol.