Warframe, End-Game, Grinding, Skinners Box And K.i.s.

[Rottae]

Hello Warframe Community and DE, I'm Rottae, a game-designer (P&P RPG and Board games) in a small indie company in sweden. I wish to start a discussion around my current thoughts around Warframe and why I personally really want to see Warframe become a full-blown success, mostly in the PvE co-operative front.

In warframe atm we have a game of running around shooting people in the face. I think everyone here can agree that is the core mechanic of warframe. How do you make this enjoyable? By giving the people playing an interacting and FUN way to do this and from what I've seen in warframe, the things that really make it fun is the quick, hectic combat. 

But there is one thing that is at the moment plaguing the game that atleast i feel is happening, everything is unneccesarily complicated, (Damage Calcs, Crit Chance, Health and Shield Formulas etc.) the lack of end-game content (challenges to live up to both player skills and numericals.) and the complete idea that this game is only about farming and that skinners box is keeping people in the game.

As I Mentioned earlier, I have been doing game design for other games and one of the core rules to follow is K.I.S. (Keep it Simple) and our current statlines are everything but simple. A person really need to dig into the core mechanic of the games to understand them. A new player can get really distracted by what all these different kind of mods do, to start out health, shield and energy mods scale of your base values, but not the values given when you level up. That is a flat bonus value. I think that most of our stat problems at the moment needs to be solved, cleared up and made appropriatly understandable by just looking at mods/weapons. Players should with the information given by the game (without having to test everything out and/or Data-mining) be able to create their playstyles and their focus. To be able to make decisions from the get go. People always understand that +15% damage is bonus to damage, but in warframe, where do that 15% apply.

I would believe that the game would really need some stat streamlining and making these kind of thing coherent. I'm all for complex systems and being able to power your Frame exatcly how you want to, but it shouldn't be complicated for the sake of being complicated. 

Skinners Box, for those who doesn't know about this should really read up upon the topic. But it's basically, doing something for a reward over and over. This can be rewarding to us as players, but mostly it's something that quickly just becomes something you do. something that just happens over the course of you sitting at the computer gaming. It usually just becomes a every day task, that when it is done, you feel relieved. Missing that daily login reward can feel bad? Skinners Box. Daily bonus on Facebook game, Skinners Box. Weekly raids, Skinners box.

The problem with Skinners box is that it is almost like a psychological warfare tool. It can be used to ensure success. But the real question soon becomes, how many of your players are playing because your game is coherently fun, interesting and stimulating or are they only there because, well, they just need to grind that new top-tier weapon or they are there to get that all mighty +2 sword of gibberish.

Skinners box is both a boon and a blessing to games, it can be incredibly, incredibly in strong in a game where the real goal isn't what you are trying to reach, but the journey there. Because that means that grinding is rewarding, not because the item was worth it, but because you had a blast getting it and then you want do live that journey again. But it can also be a trap to keep players that just doesn't know what to do for the moment kill time, so they might get that cool sugarcube at the end of the tunnel of grisly broken glass.

I think we as a community, both as the gaming community and warframes community, should look up to DE and politely ask them to make the trip what is important, not the reward. Because if you could spend 8 hours in a epic new storyline, that explains the orokin, having you fight off heroic changing bosses, with challenging and fun mechanics but while you are at it, still gain those 1000 rubedo, 3400 nano spores, 5 morphics and banshee chassis blueprint or just spend 8 hours farming Xini, what would you choose? This leads me to my next topic
 

what warframe lacks at the moment is something to keep us players invested outside of artificial goals, such as: How far can I get in solo defense, Can i beat every level on Saturn with only stealth. etc. etc. This is what many people today refer to as a End-Game, giving the people at the top of the progress curve (Currently mastery rank 7 if i remember correctly) with something to do, since most of these players most likely do not need more resources, weapons or frames. 

End-Game is the period where it is the easiest to lose players if you are using a "bad" skinners box model for your game, it's where people start actually seeing what they are doing, I have several friends who have quit warframe to this one reason. They had their weapons, frames and resources. The dojo was either to farfetched or already done, so that wasn't intriguing to them. They needed fun, interesting content, that could keep them playing just for that and sadly at the moment there isn't much of this in warframe, atleast not for those players. They don't even have a reason to grind anymore because they either can't do anything with those credits, mods and resources or they just couldn't bother with getting a frame and levelling it to 30 just for the heck of it, because there was no real challanges or no real fun in it. They had already maxed out their favorite frame, so what now?

 

The reason that i really want for warframe to succeed is bacuase they are doing exactly the genre that I love, I love co-operative games, that can be enjoyed without PvP interaction. Luckily they are doing it in the only shooterstyle I prefer. Third Person!

I'm not really coming from anything solid with this post, I have no expertise in video games, I'm just giving general gameplay feedback to a game I really want to see succeed, because in the core of this game there is real potential, this game could really sky-rocket popularities even more and last of everything it could stay alive for a very, very long time. But right now, I really think DE needs to streamline their system, so it is easily accesible for new players, that long term players got something to strive for when playing the game that is not artificial goals created by themselves and that what makes the game enjoyable is not the reward for playing, but the playing of the game itself.



P.S. 

Even with this long wall of text about... well... something, I need to really state that I love how DE are creating warframe, I love their community support, their design council approach to the entire game and that you actively see them answering question.

I also really enjoy warframe, but grinding for grinding sake loses it's sting and when i tried to get into this game, I was almost horrified by most of the damage calculations, damage types, how stats scaled and so on. Even after having played EvE actively for 3,5 years.

 

TLDR:

This game, even though being majorly enjoyable, might have some core problems they need to look at before taking another step forward.

 

[S3riaL]

+1 dude you are maybe one of few that I really took time and enjoyed reading. 100% agree with that I'm only login in to get daily reward actually waiting real challenge. As always they are humans so we will try to be patient as long as we can ....

[Symbiont71]

I have actually read all your post and yes, you make a lot of valid points.

 

I think DE should stop adding new frames and instead add some kind of end-game while polishing what we already have, because i'm seeing a lot of this posts lately.

 

For me, i think update 9 will decide if i stick around or not...i maxed all i wanted and i have nothing else to do..

Edited June 27, 2013 by Symbiont71

[JustDont]

A couple of notes on your post:

1) Complex mechanics isn't a bad (nor a good) thing in videogames. However, it often provides much more creative options (sometimes unintented by developers) than simple math. Furthermore, simple mechanics often have severe problems with scaling, while with complex system there's often a way to "fine-tune" scaling problems.

The downside to complex mechanics is indeed a steep learning curve on the "how that thing works?" topic. However, I found Warframe mechanics to be totally not a rocket science. You shoot things, things die, often giving you a flashy feedback on how well your mods are working and what they exactly do. The finer points, such as "what base value +shields mods apply to?" are interesting only to people who want a firm graps on mechanics (and such people will go datamine or read the wiki at least), but for general public the very simple rule "you apply better +shields mod, you'll have more shields" still works and is totally enough.

 

2) The lack of content. PvE games are not "endless" by their very nature. It's pointless to complain about hitting a "ceiling" where you did it all and have seen it all, because such ceiling is absolutely inevitable with the current game format. Of course there will be more content and the ceiling will "rise", but it will still be there. And it's a no-brainer that people will "burn through" the new content MUCH faster than developers will ever be able to create it.

The only two things so far known to somewhat deal with this problem are: a) grind; b) difficulty. Most games go one way or another, some rare examples (like WoW) employ both methods simultaneously. However, by raising the "content ceiling" of the game high up into the stratosphere, one can risk losing players who actually like the fact that they can possibly see through all the available content one day without spending 1000+ hours on the game.

[Rottae]

@JustDont

I completely agree with both of your statements, but there is from a game design perspective a value in having your players knowing your mechanics and giving them a easy way to approach it, that most of us gamers are forgetting by the minute. The Board game "Ecplise, New dawn for the galaxy" does this really well. They have a large amount of custumization, empire management that is worthy of a computer game, several different ways to win and all of this is so easily accessible that you only need to look in the rulebook once, read the setup and then use the board for reference on the first game.

But this kind of easy to understand, easy to use concept is falling out of favor in computer games, which is starting to become a problem for entirely new gamers. People who aren't "in to" games but really want to try out something new. I had a dedicated 3 year MOBA gamer give up on warframe because the stats were according to him, nonsensical.

Also lack of content, even though we are using RNG based mechanic, alerts, defense rewards, random loots. It still is having problems with the "fun" of the game. Replayability and fun is something that really needs to be valued more. For example, Battlestar Galacticas: The Board game had an awesome amount of replayability and fun. Because of RNG, there was random crisis and there were hidden "bad guys" who where helping the game kill the players. All of the players are working to survive against the game except those hidden "bad guys".

 

I really think we need to focus on "Fun" in video and computer games now a days, not fun as in someone throwing a pie at someones face, but fun such as today only a really few games are able to pull off, without becoming grindfests or punitive games.

Spec Ops: The Line
Psychonauts
Popuolus: The Beggining
Mirror's Edge
Thief 1,2 and 3

 

This is a list that I can make from the top of my head on games that I can always come back to and always feel satisfied. Even without content spikes, even without grindfests, even without other players playing with me. Why can't multiplayer games be fun in their own rights, but as many have started to believe need to rely on the Skinners Box?
 

Sorry for refering to odd board games btw! xD I'm a gamer of many magnitudes and play everything, so I can quickly get warped into thoughts of other things

[Valfunde]

I don't want to see you leave, Symbiont71 but the main changes in the 9.0 is not about content but about making everything existing more balanced. I hope it will make you want to build new items and enjoy the game for a long time, but ... I agree, we need more new content, and the Op took my +1 as I totally agree with him, and his post is really constructive. But I think such a work is necessary, because there are a few weapons that are actually efficient against lvl70+ enemies and it's lame.

[X3Evanescence]

This post is one of the most constructive and true post which I have ever read. I have no objection and I totally support your post as the points which you have elaborated on are valid and requires attention.

[X3Evanescence]

Take my +1.

[Symbiont71]

I don't want to see you leave, Symbiont71 but the main changes in the 9.0 is not about content but about making everything existing more balanced. I hope it will make you want to build new items and enjoy the game for a long time, but ... I agree, we need more new content, and the Op took my +1 as I totally agree with him, and his post is really constructive. But I think such a work is necessary, because there are a few weapons that are actually efficient against lvl70+ enemies and it's lame.

 

I will most probably NOT leave, and if i do, i'll be watching the forums and updates, waiting for my time to come back. I see so much potential in this game and i'm afraid i'll lose interest if i stick around for too much before stuff comes out. 

 

I played my part sharing opinions, suggestions and trying to help people out, but i guess i'll just stick to that for the moment. 

 

I've seen SO damn many BRILLIANT, not just awesome, but pure genius ideas coming from this community reaching out to DE..

It's high time they told us something about their plans for end-game..

Edited June 27, 2013 by Symbiont71

[Reichmar]

So, I really enjoyed reading the OP. Well written and constructive, not ranty. Brilliant.

 

As others have suggested, I believe that DE needs to start sharing their plans for endgame with us soon (being vague is ok, just give us something to stick around for). I'm hoping that they will start with U9, and keep us posted after that.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Reichmar

[Rottae]

@Reichmar

Yeah that would be brilliant, anything to keep us who have what we want to keep going would be awesome. I hope U9 will be like a new dawn for warframe. Since it's the DE <3 Players Update or something like that 

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

To be honest, 90% of your post are issues that DE are already aware of (no endgame, too much grind, UI/enemies/bosses need work, no storyline) but as they've stated, they are working on it. But they're a very small developer studio apparently, so they have very limited resources.

 

The only thing I disagree with outright is the need to make it casual. No really, there is nothing more rewarding for me than putting together a build on a frame, tweak it and master it's quirks. If the system were less intricate, I wouldn't be posting this today as then it would be just another "heh, nice" third person shooter without any actual skill involved in it's gameplay and I would have given it a skip.

 

We have far too many of those S#&amp;&#036;ty games out there and I really would be disappointed if Warframe became that way.

[OcelotVampire]

I've played a lot of mmos in my time and even got to high tier gameplay in most. The "end game" fun usually comes in the form of taking my high lvl toon and fighting other players. PVP. This is what we need. Not just in the dojo but on a larger scale. I belive DE mentioned that the game engine can support 4 vrs 4 matches. This is something I am very much looking forward to. You can kill mindless npcs till your fingers bleed. However, none of that comes close to a great fight against human players, that think and want to survive at all costs. The stalker was a nice touch, but I'd like to see more expanded on that. I'd like to become a stalker and invade some poor players game to assassinate them. Perhaps the lower lvls could be off limits. Maybe even have it so you have to make/farm some kind of slalker key that allows you to join players round in this manner be a stalker.

 

The problem currently with dueling in the dojo is that it doesn't support the many different play styles of the warframes. For example, good luck sniping in a small room against a player with a shotgun. If your a small clan you're not gonna have many players to duel against either.  Many of the defence maps that would make pretty fun 4 vrs 4 matches.

 

There could be more in the way of stats on screen. We don't even see how much shields/health our sentenials have. Something I'm still waiting for. This info should be under our warframes health/shield bar. Aswell as an overall stats screen for our warframes. How much armor does my frame have after I apply this mod ect ect ect. This should be displayed. So i'm with you on that and I'm sure these things will come further down the road. They are a small group of devs, so it might take them a bit of time to catch up with our demands.

[Reichmar]

 

@Reichmar

 

Yeah that would be brilliant, anything to keep us who have what we want to keep going would be awesome. I hope U9 will be like a new dawn for warframe. Since it's the DE <3 Players Update or something like that

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't know if there's going to be much new content besides the Mercury storyline and a ton of balance and warframe tweaks. However, I think there is some value in starting a trend of dropping breadcrumbs so that the average player (who might be bored, and might go play something else instead of buying platinum and playing Warframe) gets excited about new content and endgame.

 

I think they'll obviously start with breadcrumbs on the story, as we're getting a small chunk of it. Don't get me wrong, the game needs to fill that gaping hole -- there isn't any rhyme or reason to clearing planets at the moment. But that doesn't do anything for the players who are already geared the way they want, have the weapons they like, use the frames they like, and are just sitting around ... doing defense missions to pass time.

 

 

 

To be honest, 90% of your post are issues that DE are already aware of (no endgame, too much grind, UI/enemies/bosses need work, no storyline) but as they've stated, they are working on it. But they're a very small developer studio apparently, so they have very limited resources.

 

The only thing I disagree with outright is the need to make it casual. No really, there is nothing more rewarding for me than putting together a build on a frame, tweak it and master it's quirks. If the system were less intricate, I wouldn't be posting this today as then it would be just another "heh, nice" third person shooter without any actual skill involved in it's gameplay and I would have given it a skip.

 

We have far too many of those S#&$ty games out there and I really would be disappointed if Warframe became that way.

 

 

I agree with Hap as well. DE is aware of most of these issues. I also don't want the game to be dumbed down too much.

 

I think the nexus here, between both of you, myself, and DE, is that in the coming months before release, more communication about their intentions for story and endgame would be a good gesture for the community. We all understand the limited resources that they have, but breadcrumbs are always welcome and keep the average gamer excited.

 

The livestreams are a fanstastic tool for reaching out, and they do a great job with those. Perhaps future ones could start chipping away at this block from the very top..

Edited June 27, 2013 by Reichmar

[Rottae]

@Hap-Muhr, Reichmar

Making a system less confused is never bad and doesn't make your skills anymore less competent in choosing what to use for a certain situation. Using understandable and easily conveyable algorithms to the players also helps new people.
Just because a system is easy to understand doesn't mean you have to remove depth from it.

@OcelotVampire

PvP is only worth it's salt if it is really well executed. If it is something to expand on. PvP also needs to be alot more balanced then a PvE games (for example, all kill everything nearby ulties are perfect examples of things that would have to be nerfed to the ground for it to work) 
They are a small, but as we all notice very competent group of developers and i praise them for their work with this. But not even the design council is aware of anything that will be the "fun" of the game. 

Edited June 27, 2013 by Rottae

[JustDont]

Spec Ops: The Line

Psychonauts

Popuolus: The Beggining

Mirror's Edge

Thief 1,2 and 3

 

This is a list that I can make from the top of my head on games that I can always come back to and always feel satisfied. Even without content spikes, even without grindfests, even without other players playing with me. Why can't multiplayer games be fun in their own rights, but as many have started to believe need to rely on the Skinners Box?

Ah, but you see -- you did use the word "come back". Meaning -- no, you don't just play and play and play Mirror's Edge or Thief to no end and still feel satisfied. You run through, then put the game on a shelf, then return back to it after a good deal of time has passed.

 

Such method is totally applicable to "grindfests" and general MMOs as well. Shelf your WoW for half a year, then come back -- and voila, there are tons of new stuff to try.

 

I had a dedicated 3 year MOBA gamer give up on warframe because the stats were according to him, nonsensical.

On the matter of complexity and MOBAs, there's another good example of how simplification is very often not good. There's Dota(2), which regarded by most as the "only true" MOBA, and its mechanics is very complex and sometimes really weird at times (courtesy of quirks of Warcraft3 engine). Then there are lots of other clones and not-so-clones, practically all of them "streamlined" mechanics to be much, much simpler than Dota.

 

Is any of them good, though? Turns out, streamlined mechanics often leads to severely reduced depth, even if developers go out of their way to artificially increase it. The only one MOBA of notice (that is not Dota) is League of Legends, and it's still generally regarded by MOBA players as "casual dota". That is, despite several painful attempts to increase game's depth.

 

PS: Simple but deep mechanics is certainly possible, I totally argee with you on that. However, it's also incredibly hard to do it right, even in such relatively simple scenarios as board games (yeah, I'm a board game player too, and I had my share of games with not quite good mechanics).

[Rottae]

@JustDont

Ah Touché you got me there. I actually played wow back in vanilla, my friend told me to try it again now in MoP and I actually were able to get to 90 before getting incredibly bored by the grindfest concept that they are creating.
 Also on the MOBA topic, it was just to pull an example of how even veteran gamers gets confused by how stats work in warframe at points. (well you putting on that rhino helmet giving 25 more health, your up to 325 in that lvl 30 rhino, putting on a 80% mod puts you to a groundbreaking 405 xD)

Board games with bad mechanics do although quickly fall under the marketpressure, marking them as a subpar game (every descent clone ever made?) But when a video game use bad mechanics, The market of Video gamers are so much larger, letting these games survive into publishing and going into the market. (Duke Nukem: Forever...) 

[OcelotVampire]

Sure the AOE skills would be kinda hard to balance out vrs real players. We do have resistance mods. Beaf them up a bit more or just make the warframe skills in PVP affect other warframes a bit less then they dmg mobs in PVE. I've played other mmo's that balance PVP vrs PVE fighting differently. So you might do uber dmg in the field with a skill but you're not gonna 1 hit kill every1 around you in PVP with the same skill. We could maybe even have the ability to host matches with skills turned off completely. I really feel with warframe in general there's much potential for some true PVP fun. TDM,DM,CTF would all be great modes with warframes. I would really like to see a domination mode like Blacklight Retribution's. We already have the hacking minigames. :)

[Rottae]

Yeah, something could come up, but I think for the game to really be fun and interesting. They would need to put alot more focus on it then there currently is atm.

[F43AK]

Sure the AOE skills would be kinda hard to balance out vrs real players. We do have resistance mods. Beaf them up a bit more or just make the warframe skills in PVP affect other warframes a bit less then they dmg mobs in PVE. I've played other mmo's that balance PVP vrs PVE fighting differently. So you might do uber dmg in the field with a skill but you're not gonna 1 hit kill every1 around you in PVP with the same skill. We could maybe even have the ability to host matches with skills turned off completely. I really feel with warframe in general there's much potential for some true PVP fun. TDM,DM,CTF would all be great modes with warframes. I would really like to see a domination mode like Blacklight Retribution's. We already have the hacking minigames. :)

DOM is the only thing I think anyone would want to take from Blacklight lol, they're horribly bad at communication, and outputting content. 

Again, I suggested this somewhere else, some type of 1 day a week PvP arena with ladder's and rewards would give players a reason to grind, and whatever, as well as something to do in between awesome PvE updates. But we do need more game defining content to enrich the PvE experience beyond the point of farming all day.

[DSMK2]

I think you're having the same idea I'm feeling, but better worded and more specific. Made my own thread on it just now with my own thoughts.

 

Warframe – PvE Oriented but lacking in solo and co-op play

 

I'm definitely feeling the Skinner's box right now and is probably the thought that is nagging at me.

Edited June 27, 2013 by DSMK2

[Rottae]

Read your post and it sounds like I'm definiely not the only one wondering what is in the brewing for us to come. I myself would really enjoy more purely fun content and not more grinding for X weapon or Z Frame. It would really make a new fresh, start for longer term players and give others more to look forward to.

[slayer2k89]

I have to agree, the lack of competitive play (I use competitive because I'm not refering just to PVP, i also mean a way to compare stats or skill against another player) is kind of a let down. As it stands me and a couple of my friends made a small clan and our only focus atm is to complete the pvp room in the dojo. It's not that we're super competitive or anithing, but the best way to determine and effective long time game strategy (at least in my opinion) is to polish it against another player( i admit sounds a little weird but you get the point). One of the thing we are currently doing is stat comparing at the end game, it's not much but it gives us that little bit of motivation to get better weapons, tweek our gear, and even experiment with our paly style... not for nothing but overall all the enemies become 1~3 shot kills after a while, i mean at one point you can clear an entire graniir room out with just excaliburs radial javelin. A couple of things i would love to see put in warframe besides strict pvp combat (like the one currently in the dojo) would be some parkour races across different planetside tracks, or even a sort of competitive exterminate (whomever kills the most enemies wins), or hell even a relic hunt mission where players need to find hidden relics inside giant arenas going through a series of traps and only using a series of riddles as their guide (no radar for this one).

getting back to PVP, i have to admit i like the initiative of letting players do pvp combat (even if it is just in the dojo and it's fairly limited) but it really needs to be extended. i mean i would love to have a 4 player free for all pvp in a randomly generated arena, a place large enough so that you can actually use your agility and parkour to evade enemy skills, and shots,and with a large enough arena you can actually leave the skills as they are for pvp, just because odds are there will be cover to hide behind (going on the randomly generated stage route). The potential for pvp in warframe is incredible, not only because of the uniqueness of each warframe, the large array of weapons, or the versatility of the skills, but the movement engine would give pvp (IN A DECENT SIZE ENVIROMENT[like the platform you find the jackal on]) a great deal of deph; not to mention that the potential game modes are fairly diverse, you could have smash brothers sort of thing where players go against each other and at the end the one with the least number of deaths wins (the most kills is too overdone, and it gives warframes with aoe ults too much and advantage), or a clan v clan mode where you win by assassinating the enemy warlord in a 20v 20 player battle on a large battlefield.

 

so tu sum up: the game is great. love it, please add decent pvp, or a pvp planet or something (that doesn't require you to spend a ton of resources to build) or at least something for the end game like kill boss a and get an historical document to explain what happened to all the tenno, or how the corpus consortium formed, or why the infested look like grineer or at least WHAT IS THE STALKER (male of female... and is it hugable?)

 

Ps: sorry for the long post and if i begin to rant mid way through it's 1:30 am here and i'm pretty tired, and props to OP for the awesome post

[CH33F]

Many games that have PvE content make up their endgame with one or both of these two things: PvP, and raids and whatnot. These add two vital aspects to a game that will break up the monotony: unpredictability, and teamwork. PvP may use more unpredictability than advanced PvE content, but both need to feed off of teamwork, or else it will go back to what we have now. I think games like Global Agenda and DCUO have done a fairly good job of these.

I read somewhere that the type of game that is really interesting is one that has a strategy guide written for it, not an instruction manual for each level. This is like advice for possible situations, but not an outright solution to any of them, as each encounter may be different. I think Warframe has a lot of potential to be one of those games, but it needs to have more unpredictability like I mentioned earlier.

I hesitate to say 'cinematic', but more of an uncontrollable feel needs to be given to the game. There needs to be crazy S#&$ happening quite a bit more in this game. Real-time events, in your game, affecting your playstyle, tactics, and pace. Basically, there needs to be stuff like decompression, but hopefully on a larger scale. The Lotus could inform you of an asteroid storm after you change the course of the ship, and asteroids would take out certain areas, and you would have to maneuver through them. Maybe find an oxygen supply, and venture outside the ship to do things. Stuff like that.

Anyways, I'm sure the good folks at DE are pretty busy, and that stuff would take a while to program and stuff, but I think it would really improve the fun/interesting factor of the game. And stuff that advocate for teamwork. Bosses that you need to talk about before facing, instead of just standing there shooting its face/right foot/leg or whatever. Bosses like the stalker, that you have to use the awesome movement capabilities you gave us. And they need to have unique abilities, so that we're surprised when we face them. I think we'd have to make them much less readily available than the bosses we have now. Make them something to work for, something to look forward to, instead of 'oh, I'm sick and tired of trying to get the @(*()$ (material) off of whoever for the upteenth time, make it so that the boss is fun to fight, and you have to change your tactics a little each time depending on the room you're in. I find it a lot more fun when bringing the Hyena out of the large room it spawns in, and darting around cover to try and shoot it.

I don't know how long this block of text is, and I'm sorry if you guys don't feel like reading it, I just wanted to put this out there.

TL;DR - Add more dynamic events, require teamwork, and increase the need for tactics.

Edited June 27, 2013 by CH33F

[alocrius]

This is exactly what I have been speaking to with my forum posts.  The gameplay should be the primary reason to play, reward secondary.  Which is why I keep asking for DE to put out an update just for gameplay.  As you said the hectic combat is where it's at.  Why aren't they building on the awesome foundation of combat mechanics they have, enhancing tactical gameplay and staying ahead of the player skill curve, in some capacity.  Why do we keep running down hallways spamming ults?  The Tenno are capable of so much more.  I really can't fathom DE's turning a blind eye to improving gameplay.  A major misstep.

Edited June 27, 2013 by alocrius