Status proc question

[Zyba]

Can anyone confirm the mechanics of a status proc per pellet on a shotgun?

 

Specifically, if you have a shotgun firing 7 pellets based but modded for 100% status and 180% multishot you are firing 19.8 pellets per round. I got that so far. But if you have it modded for 2 elements plus its base slash, impact and puncture damage how do you calculate odds on which proc per pellet? Does each pellet proc each status or do they each have a chance to proc the respective status effect based upon what % of the total expected damage is coming from that damage type?

Thanks fellow Tenno.

 

Also is it possible to double proc with a melee and weeping wounds almost like a red crit?

Edited September 30, 2016 by Zyba
Update

[Lijka]

Each pellet will proc 1 status effect, with the impact/puncture/slash damage having higher chance than elemental effects, but it is all I know in this regard.

[DiosGX]

Shotgun status differs from other weapons. Unless it's been completely overhauled since I last read up on this, here's the deal:

 

Say you have an Akbronco Prime with 100% status. This does not mean it will cause a status 100% of the time. It's just likely to cause a status effect. Divide your status chance by the number of pellets for the actual status chance per pellet. Even at 100% you could theoretically not get a status proc because you're averaging closer to 20%~ for many shotguns. If you want a shotty with realistic status chance, look instead at the Phage which works in a completely opposite method. Each beam of the Phage possesses the split status effect chance, thus, when RMB aiming to compress the beams together, it is very much an actual 100% (more than that) chance to proc, and doesn't have any annoying IPS to get in the way of those status procs either.

 

8 minutes ago, Lijka said:

Each pellet will proc 1 status effect, with the impact/puncture/slash damage having higher chance than elemental effects, but it is all I know in this regard.

What? What is this? No. This is just not true. Where did you learn this?

Whatever damage type has a higher value is more likely to be chosen as a status effect. Your given example just shows that your IPS damage values were higher than your elements or their combinations.

[taiiat]

if your Shotgun shoots 7 Pellets without Multi-Shot and reports 100% Status, with Multishot you will get however many Pellets per Shot as your Status Effects per Shot.
when in doubt, refer to this non exact but accurate chart:

 

34 minutes ago, Zyba said:

or do they each have a chance to proc the respective status effect based upon what % of the total expected damage is coming from that damage type?

exactly correct. you will experience many more Physical Status Effects than Elemental because of how it is weighted however. atleast 50% of your Status Effects will be Physical (applicable to 99.100% of situations, don't point out that 1/100,000,000 situation)

16 minutes ago, DiosGX said:

What? What is this? No. This is just not true. Where did you learn this?

Physical Status Effects are far, far more likely to occur than Elemental Status Effects.
you need to have an insane number of Elemental Mods to change that. far more than 4.

Edited September 30, 2016 by taiiat

[Inarticulate]

1 hour ago, DiosGX said:

Shotgun status differs from other weapons.

No it doesn't. The only difference between a shotgun and any other weapon is that a shotgun fires more than one "bullet" per shot at base. The math is the same regardless (but the "difficult" part cancels out when the base number of bullets is 1).

The generic formula for status chance is calculated as follows:

• [status chance per n bullets] = 1 - (1 - [status chance per m bullets]) ^ (n / m)

The reason this formula is as it is is because the status chance shown in the Arsenal is the probability that you will trigger at least one status proc each time you fire, accounting for the total number of bullets or pellets that are fired on each shot.

Before equipping any multishot mods, you can take n to be 1 and m to be the base number of pellets. This way, [status chance per n bullets] is the status chance per pellet and [status chance per m bullets] is the status chance displayed in the Arsenal before multishot mods are equipped.

After equipping multishot mods, you can take n to be 1 and m to be the number of pellets after multishot is accounted for. In this case, [status chance per n bullets] is still the status chance per pellet and [status chance per m bullets] is the status chance displayed in the Arsenal after multishot is accounted for. This, however can lead to rounding error due to the fact that the status chance displayed in the Arsenal is rounded to the nearest tenth of a percent.

Here's the derivation of the formula (and proof that it technically applies to all weapons) for anyone interested:

Spoiler

By simple probability calculation, you start with this:

• [probability of failing a status proc per 1 bullet] = 1 - [status chance per 1 bullet]
• [probability of failing a status proc per x bullets] = [probability of failing a status proc per 1 bullet] ^ x
  • = (1 - [status chance per 1 bullet]) ^ x
• [probability of getting at least one status proc per x bullets] = 1 - [probability of failing a status proc per x bullets]
  • = 1 - (1 - [status chance per 1 bullet]) ^ x

Now, [probability of getting at least one status proc per x bullets] is simply the same as [status chance per x bullets], so I'll shorten it to that going forward.

Solving for [status chance per 1 bullet], you get:

• [status chance per x bullets] = 1 - (1 - [status chance per 1 bullet]) ^ x
• 1 - [status chance per x bullets] = (1 - [status chance per 1 bullet]) ^ x
• (1 - [status chance per x bullets]) ^ (1 / x) = 1 - [status chance per 1 bullet]
• 1 - (1 - [status chance per x bullets]) ^ (1 / x) = [status chance per 1 bullet]

If you're simply interested in getting the status chance per pellet for a shotgun, you can stop here. For an arbitrary number of pellets compared to an arbitrary number of pellets (i.e. the formula at the start of this post), you can keep going.

Starting with the identity equation and substituting different values for x, you get:

• [status chance per 1 bullet] = [status chance per 1 bullet]
• 1 - (1 - [status chance per n bullets]) ^ (1 / n) = 1 - (1 - [status chance per m bullets]) ^ (1 / m)
• (1 - [status chance per n bullets]) ^ (1 / n) = (1 - [status chance per m bullets]) ^ (1 / m)
• 1 - [status chance per n bullets] = (1 - [status chance per m bullets]) ^ (n / m)
• [status chance per n bullets] = 1 - (1 - [status chance per m bullets]) ^ (n / m)

And there you go.

 

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

exactly correct. you will experience many more Physical Status Effects than Elemental because of how it is weighted however. atleast 50% of your Status Effects will be Physical (applicable to 99.100% of situations, don't point out that 1/100,000,000 situation)

Definitely not accurate. (Especially because any weapon with no physical damage on it is definitely more than that 1/100,000,000 of situations. But yes, I know you are exaggerating.)

Which status gets procced is determined by how your weapon's damage is split. Physical status types are weighted by a factor of 4, whereas elemental status types are weighted by a factor of 1.

For a weapon that has 5 Slash, 4 Puncture, and 1 Impact damage, the weights are 20 to Slash, 16 to Puncture, and 4 to Impact with 40 total. This results in a status distribution of 50% Slash (20 / 40), 40% Puncture (16 / 40), and 10% Impact (4 / 40).

For a weapon that has 5 Slash, 4 Puncture, 1 Impact, and 18 Corrosive, the weights are 20 to Slash, 16 to Puncture, 4 to Impact, and 18 to Corrosive with 58 total. This results in a status distribution of 34.5% Slash (20 / 58), 27.6% Puncture (16 / 58), 6.9% Impact (4 / 58), and 31.0% Corrosive (18 / 58). Note that even though Corrosive is 64% of the weapon's damage, it only takes up 31% of the status distribution.

In order to have the probability of a status proc being elemental reach 50% of the total status proc, your elemental damage must be 4 times the weapon's physical damage (e.g. 4 90% elemental mods plus 1 60% elemental mod for 420% elemental damage).

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

Physical Status Effects are far, far more likely to occur than Elemental Status Effects.
you need to have an insane number of Elemental Mods to change that. far more than 4.

Exactly 4 with Primed Heated Charge and all three other 90% elemental mods to have your elemental status proc chance exceed your physical status proc chance.

For non-secondary weapons you need 5.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Inarticulate

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Inarticulate said:

Definitely not accurate.

Exactly 4 with Primed Heated Charge and all three other 90% elemental mods to have your elemental status proc chance exceed your physical status proc chance.

it is accurate, other people that want to argue with it just don't like that a simple phrase sums things up in layman's terms.

because a single Elemental Damage Type is not generally used on most Weapons (unless Mod Slots demand it, like some Crit Weapons), so you end up with a lot of Elemental Mods to try and supercede your Physical weight.
this ends up in having to use 7-8 Elemental Mods, to have a Weapon with a good Status rate and having Elemental Damage exceed enough for less than 50% of Status Effects to be Physical (which ends up at like 45-48% Physical).

so for all useful Weapon Loadouts, always atleast 50% of your Physical Status. it's a super easy layman's explanation that conveys the information required.