Primed and [spoiler] mods and build diversity

[JohnKable]

lately ive been tweaking and improving my favourite weapons with primed and now riven mods.
I dont have much left to do and i dont have many loved weapons so its a nice way to spend my time and its really satisfiying to see some not-so-tier0 weps doing good, for me atleast.

Sure minmaxing stuff is not that necessary, and it wasnt even back then when endless missions were a thing. But i do still like to show love to a few weps, and many like it as much as i do.

But ive (almost on any weapon) come to a crossroad (is that the right wording?) : being able to fit the mods i wanted at the cost of build diversity.
This thing is pretty clear on primary weapons. Lets say i want to fit the usual mods-serration, chamber, caliber- that already require a forma, plus a riven that def requires one too.
Now on most of them i cant have a build fitting all of them AND being able to use primed cryo round OR another element at my choice.
its not about mod slots, those are enough. The problem is that even putting 8 formas prevent me from being able to do that switch at will, because if i forma D polarity to have enough room for primed cryo rounds the same polarity would up the cost of almost EVERY other mod i could put in its place at will.
And its almost impossible to fit the cryo rounds without formaing with a D polarity.

The real flaw probably lies in the D polarity and in the fact that DE among 4 elements choose to prime the cryo rounds.

The only solution i can see right now, that wouldnt have drawbacks for the ones that already formaed their weps with a D polarity would be to have riven mods cost haved from ANY polarity. Have them require just to be in a polarized slot.

And i didnt mention yet the same problem happens if you have MORE than one riven for the same weapon but with different polarities. Its fine as long you have different polarities among V and --, but its a pain when you want to fit at your pleasure one with a D.

Its a problem not many players are experiencing probably, since i heard no one being vocal about that. But its a real bad design flaw to my eyes that didnt require genius to be seen before release, and can only become worse every primed mod we will get-

What do you think? are you experiencing the same? i already did point out that having minmaxed weapons is not a priority, but should still be a chance for everyone without downsides other that the effort of formaing and farming like crazy, where locking build diveristy is a serious downside

 

p.s. as always forgive my poor English

Edited December 7, 2016 by JohnKable

[UltimateSpinDash]

I think this is particularly glaring with Warframes since Exilus Mods were introduced.

I think we should be able to polarize a slot multiple times to give it multiple polarities, at least when it comes to auras and exilus.

[JohnKable]

Just now, UltimateSpinDash said:

I think this is particularly glaring with Warframes since Exilus Mods were introduced.

I think we should be able to polarize a slot multiple times to give it multiple polarities, at least when it comes to auras and exilus.

didnt think about that, but its a win-win solution. No drastic changes and its good and fair for everyone. 
Atleast on warframes i never had such problem, usually adding more plarities allowed me to fit whatever i wanted with ease, but im having hader times on weps because the fewer slots, doesnt mean it wouldnt be cool for warframes too.

Probably the whole system needs a rework, but keeping it simple, yours is the best solution i see

[ChuckMaverick]

30 minutes ago, JohnKable said:

What do you think? are you experiencing the same? i already did point out that having minmaxed weapons is not a priority, but should still be a chance for everyone without downsides other that the effort of formaing and farming like crazy, where locking build diveristy is a serious downside

If you want multiple builds for the same weapon (or frame) that don't fit comfortably, just build multiple copies of that weapon (or frame) and give them different polarities.

[UltimateSpinDash]

1 minute ago, ChuckMaverick said:

If you want multiple builds for the same weapon (or frame) that don't fit comfortably, just build multiple copies of that weapon (or frame) and give them different polarities.

What about unique weapons? Same for Warframes, there is currently no way to get Chroma, Mirage and the other quest frames a second time without paying plat.

Not to mention that you can't do much to distinguish two identical weapons or Warframes.

 

Your suggestion is a workaround, but not a solution.

[JohnKable]

9 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

If you want multiple builds for the same weapon (or frame) that don't fit comfortably, just build multiple copies of that weapon (or frame) and give them different polarities.

dont take it the wrong way, but dont think that can be considered a solution, A palyers side workaround for a game limit at best.
Really wouldnt ever build a weapon and slapping 7 formas and a potato on it to access just to access an extra mod disposition.
I know some people already doing that because they find limiting having only 3 possible presets, but most of them do it for frames or low forma weapons when the effort for doing that is really low or unexistent (like a loki prime that can fit almost anything with just a potato)

And also 99% of people doing that basically "main" a certain frame and weps that is basically the contrary of what one is supposed to do in the game. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by JohnKable

[Levi]

Buy 4 rivens and make sure they're all the same polarity now just make each of those rivens have each element, problem solved.

[ChuckMaverick]

1 minute ago, UltimateSpinDash said:

What about unique weapons? Same for Warframes, there is currently no way to get Chroma, Mirage and the other quest frames a second time without paying plat.

I can't think of any unique weapons, although some will be very hard to get a second copy of. The issue with frames is more a general one about the acquisition of those frames, not just forma restrictions; it's also a problem for people who sold them without realizing they couldn't get another. 

2 minutes ago, UltimateSpinDash said:

Not to mention that you can't do much to distinguish two identical weapons or Warframes.

You can look at the stats when you're selecting them in your armory, although it would be nicer if you could define custom names for each individual weapon and frame.

2 minutes ago, UltimateSpinDash said:

Your suggestion is a workaround, but not a solution.

 

2 minutes ago, JohnKable said:

dont take it the wrong way, but dont think that can be considered a solution, A palyers side workaround for a game limit at best.
Really wouldnt ever build a weapon and slapping 7 formas and a potato on it to access just to access an extra mod disposition.
I know some people already doing that because they find limiting having only 3 possible presets, but most of them do it for frames or low forma weapons when the effort for doing that is really low or unexistent (like a loki prime that can fit almost anything with just a potato)

If you want an even moderately balanced game then each additional increase in power needs to be exponentially harder to obtain.

The way that the polarity system is designed is to force you to make hard choices as you cram more and more power into your weapon or frame.

You can get more power, but at a loss of flexibility.

[JohnKable]

17 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

If you want an even moderately balanced game then each additional increase in power needs to be exponentially harder to obtain.

The way that the polarity system is designed is to force you to make hard choices as you cram more and more power into your weapon or frame.

You can get more power, but at a loss of flexibility.

The power increase already IS already exponentially harder to obtain. And the loss of flexibility was never a thing before these days. Actually flexibility and variety is one of the selling points of the game.
Also flexibility is not power, and the increase in flexibility should require a linear effort (like it ever was) just adding more formas.
Adding an extra forma to- get another copy of the weapon and put 7 forma on it aint exponential... its 0 to 100 increase.
Also you CANT do that with unique weapons/frames. founders stuff anyone?

Anyways following your logic, while fitting any mod in only 8 slots im already making an hard choice. any mod i put means i cant put another in the same build. If i go for damage (power) i already lose flexibility (utility mods), after formaing a weapons 8 times i should at least being able to fit whatever i want and choose among almost any combination of mods i want.

The only prove i can bring to show this wasnt thought about and is just a big oversight is that was NEVER like that before, the only limitation we ever had was to have only 3 custom presets for frames and weps.
But formaing 8 times could EVER fit all we wanted so far.

And just to say it, im not lazy or poor. I can build a second copy of whatever i want, whenever i want and forma it as many times as i want. Im just not doing that because its a game flaw that has to be fixed, its not the player that has to find a workaround for it. And yes thats just a workaround, having one doesnt mean that something works in the proper way.

Its just like saying that (before distillers) it was fair to choose about the looks and the power when you forever binded an arcane to a certain syandana. Oh sure there was a workaround, farming again a set of something with 1% droprate you needed 20x of, from something you can do once a day
 

Edited December 7, 2016 by JohnKable

[ChuckMaverick]

59 minutes ago, JohnKable said:

The only prove i can bring to show this wasnt thought about and is just a big oversight is that was NEVER like that before, the only limitation we ever had was to have only 3 custom presets for frames and weps.
But formaing 8 times could EVER fit all we wanted so far.

If the forma system wasn't intended to restrict flexibility then polarities wouldn't exist, applying a forma to a mod slot would reduce the cost of any mod placed in that slot.

The reason that primed and riven mods have such a high point cost is also to balance their power by making them more difficult to fit.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

How bout being able to polarize  different auras for different configurations A: energy siphon B: rifle amp C:rejuvenate esc esc weapons too..