If Trinity Has Invulnerability, Why Doesn't Rhino?

[-Kittens-]

Why does the most defensive Warframe in the game not have this?

The new change to IS is literally meaningless, It does NOTHING.

The argument seems to be "at high levels, Rhino can exploit timing and pattern weaknesses to kill bosses or survive heavy assaults by ignoring damage behavior".

Umm, isn't that the entire point of having the Rhino in the game in the first place?

Secondly how is that ANY different from going invisible with Ash or Loki or going super poison/DoT with Saryn/Ember or using Link with Trinity to manhandle bosses solo ANYWAY.



I am at a loss here.

Edited July 5, 2013 by -Kittens-

[Churpy]

I'm under the impression that if you build Rhino correctly, it will be a much better tank than Trinity..so I've heard from quite a few Rhino players.

 

As a Trinity, Link is pretty ridiculous and probably needs a nerf, but at the same time I don't really want it to be nerfed, because without it, really, what would Trinity be in terms of survivability? She has absolutely no offensive skills whatsoever, and if you've ever played with her a lot, you'll know that sometimes even Link and Blessing aren't enough to save you (although I will admit these instances are indeed very rare). Especially since her cast times no longer make her invulnerable. She has absolutely no armour so Steel Fibre is completely useless as it is % based. Her tanking ability is completely energy based whereas a Rhino has a high base armour and can instead use the skill as a major tanking aid rather than a sole tanking ability. I hope DE are careful with what they do, because they could completely ruin Trinity if they are not careful. Or maybe Rhino just needs more buff. *Shrug*

[Namacyst]

Don't forget the 10 base Armor squishy caster called Ember who can tank better than Rhino for a long time now.

[Haldos]

I think you answered your question with your first sentence. "Why does the most defensive Warframe in the game not have this?"

 

Trinity needs invulnerability due to her fragility. Put Rhino in a bullet storm and he'll shrug off damage with relative ease. Put Trinity in the same position and she wont have a chance.

[-Kittens-]

Considering I have three polarized D slots for maxed Redir, SF and Vit, I'm going to hazard I built him "correctly" and he doesn't outtank a double casting Trinity in any kind of permutation.

 

Trinity sorely needs what she has, and again If Rhino is the XP locked premier uber-tank, you'd think his abilities would reflect that.

 

They don't.

[Namacyst]

Rhino = Tank..so..High shields and a Baloon Skin that pops after 1-2 hits .. and high shields shortly after resulting in dead Rhino when doing high level Defense with mobs around lvl 100

 

Trinity = Support..so..Low armor, Medium shields, medium health, can heal, has Invulnerability and endless Energy...running around reviving dead Rhinos in high level Defense with mobs around lvl 100.. not giving a S#&$ about them.

 

Can you tell me what's wrong here?

Edited July 5, 2013 by Namacyst

[tsubasakuroi]

Not a Rhino player but I even find it strange myself. Give him invulnerability, but make it that you also kind of need Continuity to use it for a decent amount of time perhaps?

[Namacyst]

Not a Rhino player but I even find it strange myself. Give him invulnerability, but make it that you also kind of need Continuity to use it for a decent amount of time perhaps?

Once upon a time.. then QQ..then nerf.. here we are.

[LasersGoPewPew]

the general scheme of things in a game forum:

community wants weapon that does good at this and that->community gets said weapon->community tries out said weapon->community complains about how good said weapon is to the point where it invalidates most other weapons->said weapon receives nerf->community tries it after nerf->community asks for it to be buffed or unpatched->said weapon gathers dust in the inventory until it gets buffed.

 

that's how it works in most game forums it is the sad truth.

 

the designated tank gets a crappy halo knockoff overshield, it should've been left at square one with invincibility, albeit some actual DOWNSIDES to the god mode button. downsides such as attracting agro, moving slower, doing reduced damage, something along those lines so its' a trade off.

 

Trinity's Link is actually a situational invincibility, if there's no enemies around she gets bombarded to hell.

[Namacyst]

the general scheme of things in a game forum:

community wants weapon that does good at this and that->community gets said weapon->community tries out said weapon->community complains about how good said weapon is to the point where it invalidates most other weapons->said weapon receives nerf->community tries it after nerf->community asks for it to be buffed or unpatched->said weapon gathers dust in the inventory until it gets buffed.

 

that's how it works in most game forums it is the sad truth.

 

the designated tank gets a crappy halo knockoff overshield, it should've been left at square one with invincibility, albeit some actual DOWNSIDES to the god mode button. downsides such as attracting agro, moving slower, doing reduced damage, something along those lines so its' a trade off.

 

Trinity's Link is actually a situational invincibility, if there's no enemies around she gets bombarded to hell.

If there are no enemies around she does not need it ^^ And one Enemy is always in range for it.

[Mak_Gohae]

Trinity doesnt have any offensive abilities... she is the support frame that would be worthless if she was dying left and right. This is why she got Link.

 

Rhino was never a tank but Iron Skin turned him into one in people's eyes and DE caught this too late to now change this perception. Now unless Rhino gets back what he had originally the complaining is not going to stop.

[WARLOCKE]

I'm under the impression that if you build Rhino correctly, it will be a much better tank than Trinity..so I've heard from quite a few Rhino players.

 

As a Trinity, Link is pretty ridiculous and probably needs a nerf, but at the same time I don't really want it to be nerfed, because without it, really, what would Trinity be in terms of survivability? She has absolutely no offensive skills whatsoever, and if you've ever played with her a lot, you'll know that sometimes even Link and Blessing aren't enough to save you (although I will admit these instances are indeed very rare). Especially since her cast times no longer make her invulnerable. She has absolutely no armour so Steel Fibre is completely useless as it is % based. Her tanking ability is completely energy based whereas a Rhino has a high base armour and can instead use the skill as a major tanking aid rather than a sole tanking ability. I hope DE are careful with what they do, because they could completely ruin Trinity if they are not careful. Or maybe Rhino just needs more buff. *Shrug*

 

No.

[WARLOCKE]

Trinity doesnt have any offensive abilities... she is the support frame that would be worthless if she was dying left and right. This is why she got Link.

 

Rhino was never a tank but Iron Skin turned him into one in people's eyes and DE caught this too late to now change this perception. Now unless Rhino gets back what he had originally the complaining is not going to stop.

 

Seems the Devs want Rhino to be a support/CC frame now. Then why do we still have ironskin? Its useless for the new kit and role that rhino has.

[Mak_Gohae]

Seems the Devs want Rhino to be a support/CC frame now. Then why do we still have ironskin? Its useless for the new kit and role that rhino has.

 

I always saw Iron Skin as an ability to help you do CC. You were supposed to run into the middle of the enemies with it on and start knocking people down. You can still do this but you lost one knockdown attack and gained some damage.

 

And now you have to be way more tactical about it since your CCs are now either 25 in a straight line leaving anything that it doesnt hit up or 100 energy.  I actually think Rhino has become a bit more difficult to play. Now he REALLY needs that streamline mod on.

[Namacyst]

Rhino's Iron Skin has a Taunt. Don't tell me that's not a requirement for a tank.

[-Kittens-]

Rhino = Tank..so..High shields and a Baloon Skin that pops after 1-2 hits .. and high shields shortly after resulting in dead Rhino when doing high level Defense with mobs around lvl 100

 

Trinity = Support..so..Low armor, Medium shields, medium health, can heal, has Invulnerability and endless Energy...running around reviving dead Rhinos in high level Defense with mobs around lvl 100.. not giving a S#&$ about them.

 

Can you tell me what's wrong here?

 

 

Then maybe you can explain why Rhino has a support ability now.

[Specskill]

I think you guys are bit skewed on the Rhinos role. Frankly just because he CAN tank a lot damage, doesn't mean hes suppose to stand there in the open taking every bloody hit. If he was, well Trinity easily beats him at that. One thing you need to look at is Crowd Control. Trinity has NO CC what so ever, if there's 40 guys pounding on a teammate or Cyropod she can't do anything. Rhino, can stomp and charge to knock most of them down. 

 

Now in the player context obviously the Trinity can pop Blessing, but a 4 second cast time might not save a teammate in trouble, and it also has no merit in terms of a cyropod. Don't look at guys like the Rhino and Frost as guys who tank damage for you. Think of them as guys who can prevent you from taking damage. Frost can freeze special mobs and erect a snowglobe to save your &#!. Rhino can just knock everything down and keep em down.

 

With Ember ... well look at all her abilities. 3/4 of them require her to be ridiculously close to her targets. Most frames like her would be shredded just attempting to get that close, that's why she gets the damage reduction on overheat, so she can actually get close without losing everything.

[-Kittens-]

Rhino's Iron Skin has a Taunt. Don't tell me that's not a requirement for a tank.

 

 

This isn't an MMO, not even kinda. The RPG elements are there to keep butts in seats for long periods of play, same as they are for CoD.

[FatalionPanic-EGT-]

With the current change there is a NEED of a combination of Trinity AND Rhino for a tank scenario - this way you won't just bring either one and GG.

The new DMG buff makes Rhino a very attractive addition to the groups and only a good tank in combination with Trinity as a healer.

 

I couldn't even remotely imagine this to happen, It's awesome - Great job DE I tip my hat to you!

 

EDIT: <3

Edited July 5, 2013 by FatalionPanic

[AttackNitro]

Trinity has no base 10 armour, Rhino has base 150 armour.

 

Trinity has 0 damage abilities, Rhino has 2 damaging abilities.

 

Seems fair to me

[Namacyst]

Then maybe you can explain why Rhino has a support ability now.

I did not want it! I want a Rhino TANK

 

This isn't an MMO, not even kinda. The RPG elements are there to keep butts in seats for long periods of play, same as they are for CoD.

To be able to draw the attention away from someone is the definition of "Tanking". Logic dictates that, not some MMO bullS#&amp;&#036;. If people don't shoot me then i'm not the Tank. If i can bring enemys to shoot me and survive it long enough.. then i am.

[Stafer]

Considering I have three polarized D slots for maxed Redir, SF and Vit, I'm going to hazard I built him "correctly" and he doesn't outtank a double casting Trinity in any kind of permutation.

 

Trinity sorely needs what she has, and again If Rhino is the XP locked premier uber-tank, you'd think his abilities would reflect that.

 

They don't.

This.

the new 1200 damage cap is not even twice the minimal cap we had before... STOP HOLDING BACK, RROOAAARRRGGH!!

[Pearlspade]

Picture made me lol hard.

[-Kittens-]

Namacyst, on 04 Jul 2013 - 8:36 PM, said:

I did not want it! I want a Rhino TANK

To be able to draw the attention away from someone is the definition of "Tanking". Logic dictates that, not some MMO bullS#&amp;amp;$. If people don't shoot me then i'm not the Tank. If i can bring enemys to shoot me and survive it long enough.. then i am.

No it isn't.

This isn't an MMO.

There, I bolded if for you, because that's still the definition you're applying.

A fighting game/1ps/3ps tank is a large slow character with severe health/damage resistance and the ability to A either refute attack(s) directly or B use a single super spike heavy damage power/move/thing that causes horrendous damage to an opponent(s) or C both of those things.

Rhino had this denotation/permutation and now does not, which causes a large gigantic chunk of negative feedback, because most who main him want this permutation, and were happy with it.

Rhino is a locked frame, denoting special use and special stats. He is still the worst character in the game as of this fix, and never caused the most spike damage ever to begin with, which leaves the defensive option on the table, except for whatever reason having heavy defense in this game isn't allowable unless it's a continuous cast or non-economically safe. Yet conversely the game's enemies do exactly this thing with abandon, and it's actually a standard and prevalently, ubiquitously common boss feature.

Baffling.

Maybe I'm simply not understanding a hidden design mantra here.

Edited July 5, 2013 by -Kittens-

[BigSchmexy]

All I know is even with the buff on iron skin a couple seconds in the middle of some t3 enemies it goes down fast and even with health and shield thats about 1000 health and a 1000 shield which also goes down quick with those high levels and I have died a lot because I was killed while casting iron skin the only good thing is low to mid level it stays since they got rid of the time limit But Rhino roar and the new stomp are both great