If Trinity Has Invulnerability, Why Doesn't Rhino?

[Namacyst]

No it isn't. wrong, see below

-snip-

A fighting game/1ps/3ps tank is a large slow character with severe health/damage resistance and the ability to A either refute attack(s) directly or B use a single super spike heavy damage power/move/thing that causes horrendous damage to an opponent(s) or C both of those things. That describes Rhino pretty good. Slow? Check. Large Health/Shields? Check. Refute attacks with Taunt? Check. Single uber skill? (Stomp with CC and Armor ignore) Check. Both? Double-Check.

-snip-

 

He is still the worst character in the game as of this fix... wrong.. atleast in my opinion. Oh! Look at that... just by adding a simple addition like "atleast in my opinion" to something that is truly neither fact nor result of good thinking instantly prevents you from looking stupid. You should try it. Honestly.. there are worse Warframes than Rhino... atleast..  .. ;)

 

...and never caused the most spike damage ever to begin with... even more wrong.. you did not play with Radial Blast enough didn't you? Spammable AE nuke that had the same damage as Crush & Avalanche for example with only 75 Energy costs.

 

...which leaves the defensive option on the table, except for whatever reason having heavy defense in this game isn't allowable unless it's a continuous cast or non-economically safe. Yet conversely the game's enemies do exactly this thing with abandon, and it's actually a standard and prevalently, ubiquitously common boss feature. Your point being? People want exactly that! Bullet sponge with taunt.. like you would it expect from a sturdy figure like Rhino.

Baffling.

Maybe I'm simply not understanding a hidden design mantra here. What you seemingly understand in perfection are your own thoughts in that matter.. which, to be blunt and non-offensive.. don't matter much because they are, as i have shown above in several instances, based on inexperience, false information and presumptions. Rhino was intended as "The Tank" since release but in reality never was. The ppl who play him want him to be a tank but instead of doing it right DE gives him a damage group buff, buffs his damage AE further (imho .. 800 armor ignore AE with huge range is... evil) but fails to give him survivability which is prerequisite to be a tank. There you have something where you are entirely right..because THIS IS Baffling.

Fyi.. the educational part is bolded for you. No offense.

 

Cheers.

[X3Evanescence]

Somehow they are trying to break the player's dependence on Iron Skin.

[-Kittens-]

Fyi.. the educational part is bolded for you. No offense.

1. Refuting attacks means nullifying the directed damage, it does not mean drawing the attacks to you, which is the MMO definition in totality, it means letting them occur and then rendering them ineffective.2. Radial blast is in no way shape or form huge spike damage. The levels on which it occurs as such, wielding an unmodded latron is also causing huge spike damage. Compare shuriken or Ice wave to radial blast, especially on say Phorid or Hek, semantic argument over. The two examples you listed have about three times the range of RB.3. He has has the least utility and ability that is literally worthless above level 30. Pretty much qualifies as "worst" and subjective has nothing to do with it. He dodges attacks the worst, until today radial blast and rhino charge worked intermittently even on host. Pretty sure those aren't subjective.Seeing as I came from professional fighting circuits into game design, inexperience holds rather little weight. Also ignoring damage and effects as Iron Skin used to do is exactly what tanks do, so you might consider exactly who's incorrect in their presumptions, if any presupposition is actually occurring.

dependence

Since it's a signature power, that seems a tad counter intuitive.

[ZeroPhobic]

I play Rhino all wrong, I always saw him as a brawler not a tank, oops.

 

Rush in, pin the mob and beat the tar out of it. I never try to go toe to toe and blow for blow with any mob (if I can help it) I play dirty, pin them down, take their wallet and run like my hair is on fire!

[Inez]

Why does the most defensive Warframe in the game not have this?

The community demanded the change. Community meaning some really bored forum posters who hadn't actually played the game much but posted like crazy.

According to many forum posters, the old Rhino skin was wildly overpowered and had to be nerfed. Not Trinity's Link. Or Nyx's Chaos. Or several of Vauban's powers. Rhino's Iron Skin single handedly ruined the entire game.

And DE for whatever reason listened to the misguided posters.

His new damage buff and combo ability sound sweet though.

[ShadowGhosting]

Seems like Rhino is becoming more and more the jack of all trades, master of none Warframe.

 

Rhino Charge < Excalibur's Slash Dash

Iron Skin < Trinity's Link / Ember's Overheat

Roar < Banshee's Sonar

Rhino Stomp < Other Ultimates in Damage / Vauban's Bastille in utility

 

What exactly is Rhino's role supposed to be? Low levels he's a tank God. Medium levels he's a damage dealer. High levels he's nothing but a gimped buff bot. If he was faster, he would at least be a infinite mobile decoy for infested, but he can't even do that since he's so slow. (Edit: This actually works with Rush and stam mods)

 

Edit:

This might be more appropriate.

Iron Skin > Loki's Decoy / Saryn's Molt

Edited July 5, 2013 by ShadowGhosting

[WARLOCKE]

Iron Skin is now a dead skill in our kit. Not only does it not help us support or CC but it will get you kllled in endgame content. At the bvery least they need to remove the taunt from the skill.

[ExiledRamen]

Well I think it's because Rhino has offensive skills and defensive skills to make up for the lack of the invulnerability. While trinity has nothing at all to push anything back or get out of sticky situations. Without link trinity wouldn't be alive long enough to fill her role. Rhino can stomp to push things away which now does damage and even more with his new ability. 

[Niryco]

Rhino really isn't a passive tank that trinity is. Rhino is a CC aggressive tank. Forst is your CC passive tank.

 

Trinity is your support passive tank.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Jacate

[IcarusNine]

That beefcake Trinity in the comic makes this thread worthwhile.

 

DE should reskin Trinity after it, no question.

[ShadowGhosting]

Rhino really isn't a passive tank that trinity is. Rhino is a CC aggressive tank. Forst is your CC passive tank.

 

Trinity is your support passive tank.

 

Rhino is the passive-aggressive tank. Calling you names then running away, while getting his bully friends hyped to beat you down.

[Phoenix86]

 

 

10/10 for the picture :D

 

btw i guess we simply need to stop thinking Rhino as tank... he's not anymore, his description should be updated.

he's... a kind of hybrid... a SLOW jack-of-all-trades now, he brings dmg, he brings CC, he bring party buff

[WARLOCKE]

10/10 for the picture :D

 

btw i guess we simply need to stop thinking Rhino as tank... he's not anymore, his description should be updated.

he's... a kind of hybrid... a SLOW jack-of-all-trades now, he brings dmg, he brings CC, he bring party buff

 

Rhino hasnt been a tank for some time now. Nor will it ever be again.

[Mikki79]

Why does the most defensive Warframe in the game not have this?

The new change to IS is literally meaningless, It does NOTHING.

The argument seems to be "at high levels, Rhino can exploit timing and pattern weaknesses to kill bosses or survive heavy assaults by ignoring damage behavior".

Umm, isn't that the entire point of having the Rhino in the game in the first place?

Secondly how is that ANY different from going invisible with Ash or Loki or going super poison/DoT with Saryn/Ember or using Link with Trinity to manhandle bosses solo ANYWAY.

I am at a loss here.

 

Super poison dot what? Saryn has nothing that compares to any type of invulnerability, Ember has her overheat at least. Molt the only defensive ability Saryn has is even worse than Iron Skin cause it doesn't move so it gets hit by everything and dies instantly against level 50+ enemies.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Mikki79

[Fenrisyn]

Why does the most defensive Warframe in the game not have this?

The new change to IS is literally meaningless, It does NOTHING.

The argument seems to be "at high levels, Rhino can exploit timing and pattern weaknesses to kill bosses or survive heavy assaults by ignoring damage behavior".

Umm, isn't that the entire point of having the Rhino in the game in the first place?

Secondly how is that ANY different from going invisible with Ash or Loki or going super poison/DoT with Saryn/Ember or using Link with Trinity to manhandle bosses solo ANYWAY.

 

Because Rhino isn't actually the most defensive character in the game. He is a mix of defense, offense, and crowd control.

 

He deals AoE damage and CC, has a pretty substantial group dmg buff, in addition to having damage absorption. Granted, I agree that Rhino should get a more scalable version of Iron Skin, but with 3 of 4 of his abilities being offense oriented, you are incorrect in thinking he is the most defensive warframe in the game.

 

That title would go to the Shieldmaiden of Warframes (aka Trinity). Unlike Rhino, Trinity has pretty much 0 offensive capabilities, and absolutely no crowd control. Link does pretty trivial damage (nothing my Hek couldn't accomplish in 1 or 2 shots). So obviously, Trinity is the most defense-specialized warframe. It would make sense that the warframe that specializes in survival has the most survivability.

 

I think Rhino's Iron Skin should scale better with higher end content, but Trinity is the survival specialist. If you're willing to give up Rhino Charge, Rhino Stomp, and Roar for non-damage/non-CC abilities to keep yourself and your group alive instead of dealing damage or CC, then Rhino would be full on defensive.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Fenrisyn

[WARLOCKE]

Because Rhino isn't actually the most defensive character in the game. He is a mix of defense, offense, and crowd control.

 

He deals AoE damage and CC, has a pretty substantial group dmg buff, in addition to having damage absorption. Granted, I agree that Rhino should get a more scalable version of Iron Skin, but with 3 of 4 of his abilities being offense oriented, you are incorrect in thinking he is the most defensive warframe in the game.

 

That title would go to the Shieldmaiden of Warframes (aka Trinity). Unlike Rhino, Trinity has pretty much 0 offensive capabilities, and absolutely no crowd control. Link does pretty trivial damage (nothing my Hek couldn't accomplish in 1 or 2 shots). So obviously, Trinity is the most defense-specialized warframe. It would make sense that the warframe that specializes in survival has the most survivability.

 

I think Rhino's Iron Skin should scale better with higher end content, but Trinity is the survival specialist. If you're willing to give up Rhino Charge, Rhino Stomp, and Roar for non-damage/non-CC abilities to keep yourself and your group alive instead of dealing damage or CC, then Rhino would be full on defensive.

 

Rhino is not a offensive frame. Rhino is support/CC. Rhino Charge does not make a offensive frame.

[LJumpStarTD]

... 

 

I think Rhino Roar should also give a defense boost (preferably linear increase with a little % boost too), which applies to shields too. ALSO APPLIES to his Iron Skin. [Rhino Roar has a timer, right?]

 

OMG... Streamline mod needed badly then... 

 

Well... We all have opinions. 

Edited July 5, 2013 by LJumpStarTD

[Fenrisyn]

Rhino is not a offensive frame. Rhino is support/CC. Rhino Charge does not make a offensive frame.

 

Mmhm, almost sounds like "He is a mix of defense, offense, and crowd control" (read the first line of the post you quoted).

[-Kittens-]

I would hazard CC of the kind Rhino has is defensive (with the caveat that as payers are wont to do, any ability can be turned into a form of offense in the right hands, something DE seems struggling with as of late), freezing people up and knocking them down and the like.

What I do know is this. People liked the version of Rhino that had ultra defense. A lot. I'm not saying he should be auto reverted to exactly the way he was, but Iron Skin is simply useless, a literal waste of a slot. If you have maxed Steel Fiber, the only thing you're missing out on is KD and poison refutation, and because IS has an initializing animation, even those things become marginally situational at best.

[OOLuigiOo]

Rhino use to have a spammable aoe ability, why no more? Why can't ult cost as much energy to spam?

[Niryco]

Rhino is the passive-aggressive tank. Calling you names then running away, while getting his bully friends hyped to beat you down.

Currently his skills all just tell one to kill survive kill and kill more. I highly doubt he is passive aggressive and more crowd control aggressive. All his attack skills allow for more than one target kill with good direct damage. His roar and his iron skin gives buffs that makes him even harder to kill and allows him to kill enemies with harder force.

 

Rhino is not a offensive frame. Rhino is support/CC. Rhino Charge does not make a offensive frame.

Rhino is an offensive frame, what are you talking about? His slash dash allows him to pick up 5 or more enemies for 500 to 600 damage head on. His rhino stomp allows for enemy stasis and near 1000 damage. His previous radial blast is an AOE insta cast 1000 damage ulti.

 

His only support skill is iron skin. He is not support, he is overall and aggressive crowd control tank. If you used him for survival support than it would mean his skills support his team, not himself. He is not support at all, the fact you even accept this fact means all you see rhino as a hulk without his smash which is just no what he is meant to be (he is a hulk with his crazy one hit wonder smash, not a hulk who caringly carries his weaker teammates)

Edited July 6, 2013 by Jacate

[SirNerdsAlot5]

Actually with recent changes, Rhino is again #1 tank. Rhino Skin makes you take no damage, or knockbacks for up to 1200 damage and draws aggro. Combine that with Roar and you can clear a room by yourself easily.

[WARLOCKE]

Currently his skills all just tell one to kill survive kill and kill more. I highly doubt he is passive aggressive and more crowd control aggressive. All his attack skills allow for more than one target kill with good direct damage. His roar and his iron skin gives buffs that makes him even harder to kill and allows him to kill enemies with harder force.

 

Rhino is an offensive frame, what are you talking about? His slash dash allows him to pick up 5 or more enemies for 500 to 600 damage head on. His rhino stomp allows for enemy stasis and near 1000 damage. His previous radial blast is an AOE insta cast 1000 damage ulti.

 

His only support skill is iron skin. He is not support, he is overall and aggressive crowd control tank. If you used him for survival support than it would mean his skills support his team, not himself. He is not support at all, the fact you even accept this fact means all you see rhino as a hulk without his smash which is just no what he is meant to be (he is a hulk with his crazy one hit wonder smash, not a hulk who caringly carries his weaker teammates)

 

 

Wrong, So wrong it hurts. I think you do not understand what support means. Roar is support. Iron Skin is defense/agro (and sucks) and Rhino stomp is control along with Rhino charge.

 

At least give the illusion you play Rhino and use the correct power name. Its Rhino Charge, not Slash Dash.

Also if you think 600 damage is worth anything in endgame content then you clearly are stuck on Sedna. (end game being wave 20+ Xini or higher or t3 void solo). 1000 damage certainly is barely decent when factored that it is attached to a control power. But it is not nearly enough on its own to merit stating in endgame content.

 

And that is thing. I really wonder what you "Rhino Lovers" play. It certainly cant be the same content I am running or you would understand how much damage gets thrown around and the HP's of mobs at that level (t3 void Heavys are th eonly ones that count and even then they go down to a forma'd supra in 3 seconds (head spray).

 

Regardless, Rhino has 2 CC skills, One support and one defensive skill. If you take all of that into account he is a Defensive CC/support frame. If you want an offensive frame you have many to choose from (Ash, Ecal, Sarin, Ember ect.). Would you call Vauban a offensive frame? Of course not. Rhino shares far more in common with Vauban than he does with any of the four frames I mentioned in the line above.

 

TLDR. You are wrong and should be sad about it.

[GetAtMeMods]

Its kinda ironic. Trinity suffers from pre nerf rhino syndrome. Her link is such an op skill but the rest of her kit is bleh. Hopefully DE looks into this, nyx and ash.

[MagnumKnight]

quite frankly, i think people should just take a minute and just think that, perhaps maybe it's how they play the frames that make them what and who they are role wise, instead of *@##&#036;ing about who is a tank and who isnt. while i agree that the current set up for iron skin is lack luster ((other than the aggro thing)) it would be pretty safe to say if DE REALLY WANTS TO USE FLAT NUMBERS go big or go home, cause 1000+ damage absorb just isnt fuckin cutting it. maybe we should all just ask for maybe just a little more to the damage cap rhino's gotten and make some goddamn compromises because their decision seems to be pretty clear on sticking to a damage cap.