Ogris And Lanka Firing Mechanisms Are Horrible

[PaperAlien]

I've only tried the Ogris, but I'm pretty sure the Lanka uses a similar mechanism, so my feedback applies to it as well. Having a charge-up time AND a fire cap is bad enough already, but when you add in non-existent buffering (click again 0.1 seconds too early, no charging), and resetting the fire cap when you release the charge early, it becomes a stupidly frustrating hiccup in the usage of both these weapons. If a weapon needs charging to fire, there's no need to limit its fire rate, it's already limited by the charge time. Even if you were to double the charge time in exchange for removing the fire cap, the weapons would be much less clumsy.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Upvoted.

 

I'm having difficulty adjusting to this buffering thing too.

 

I'm only talking about the Ogris.

Edited July 6, 2013 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[DeatH-ReapeR]

lol let it stay as it is. I only know of the ogris, but it is OP as it is, it is a Defence mission weapon, vs infested. OP

 

No need to make it more OP

[BadAimbot]

Have a charge bar on the UI. Give it to the bows as well.

[Liminal]

lol let it stay as it is. I only know of the ogris, but it is OP as it is, it is a Defence mission weapon, vs infested. OP

 

No need to make it more OP

But it would actually be a "quality of life" improvement, not a buff.

It's about making things intuitive and easy to grasp (quite important when it comes to something as common as shooting your weapon!).

[Tatersail]

its a nice balance feature on the Ogris

 

 

If Lanka could pierce groups of mobs it would be a nice balance feature on Lanka.

[Soulgazer]

Yes for Lanka, but the Ogris is already hilariously overpowered, so not needed.  Hint, use Speed Trigger.

[Liminal]

I don't think everyone understands what the OP is saying...

[10ner]

Always the same complaints on the charging issue. The moment a weapon takes a little bit more skill to use, people start crying. Lanka and Ogris have a firing rythm you have to get into, but that means actually playing with the gun longer than 5 minutes...

[tinyrodent]

I've just started using Lanka and really hate the charging mechanism. The idea of it is ok but the implementation needs work. There is no visual indicator of charge, just a barely audible sound effect. And releasing a moment too soon wastes the charge and does nothing. Besides that, I find that even with maxed Speed Trigger, I cannot kill mobs as fast as they spawn playing alone. It's hard to imagine a useful role for this weapon.

[Rossman86]

I would be happy if charging and firing were 2 clicks, first click starts the charge, second one release the shot. I hate having to hold down the mouse button to keep the weapon primed.

[PaperAlien]

lol let it stay as it is. I only know of the ogris, but it is OP as it is, it is a Defence mission weapon, vs infested. OP

 

No need to make it more OP

This isn't a balance issue, it's dealing with an unneccesarily awkward game mechanic. I've even stated they can double the charge time if they remove the fire-cap, and that's just an example. They can change the stats as much as they like, the point here is that the charge+firecap needs to be removed.

 

its a nice balance feature on the Ogris

 

 

If Lanka could pierce groups of mobs it would be a nice balance feature on Lanka.

Same as above.

 

Always the same complaints on the charging issue. The moment a weapon takes a little bit more skill to use, people start crying. Lanka and Ogris have a firing rythm you have to get into, but that means actually playing with the gun longer than 5 minutes...

Yeah, writing a collected, reasonable post is crying. Clunky controls are never a desirable trait in video games. It doesn't take extra skill to use a mechanic that is badly designed. It just makes it more frustrating to use. Especially seeing as none of the other guns have this apparently intricate "firing rythm" and can easily be interchanged without needing 5 minutes to get accustomed.

Edited July 7, 2013 by PaperAlien

[OOLuigiOo]

Would prefer to fire as soon as the sound stops and charge it as soon as you fire even if you have to make the charge a little longer so it's feels more comfortable and it's more convenient. Needs to feel right. Right now you fire 1 second after sound stops creating confusion and many mishaps.

 

The way it is now feels like there is an invisible barrier stopping you. It's silly.

[liavalenth]

I have an Ogris. I disagree with this idea. The Ogris is extremely powerful, but requires a lot of skill to use and not kill yourself (save on Xini defense, where it is much easier to use because there is very low chance of killing yourself). I consider these drawbacks part of the reason the Ogris is not OP, if they were to do this they would have to weaken the Ogris at the same time.

EDIT: I should note that not only do I have, but I mainly use the Ogris.

Edited July 7, 2013 by liavalenth

[OOLuigiOo]

I have an Ogris. I disagree with this idea. The Ogris is extremely powerful, but requires a lot of skill to use and not kill yourself (save on Xini defense, where it is much easier to use because there is very low chance of killing yourself). I consider these drawbacks part of the reason the Ogris is not OP, if they were to do this they would have to weaken the Ogris at the same time.

EDIT: I should note that not only do I have, but I mainly use the Ogris.

If they did what he ask, all they would have to do is make to charge little longer to compensate so there are far less hiccups at the cost of a little longer charge time.

 

So in the end, there would be NO difference in fire rate.

[PaperAlien]

I have an Ogris. I disagree with this idea. The Ogris is extremely powerful, but requires a lot of skill to use and not kill yourself (save on Xini defense, where it is much easier to use because there is very low chance of killing yourself). I consider these drawbacks part of the reason the Ogris is not OP, if they were to do this they would have to weaken the Ogris at the same time.

EDIT: I should note that not only do I have, but I mainly use the Ogris.

Because I clearly stated my desire to remove self-damage. Read again.

[liavalenth]

Because I clearly stated my desire to remove self-damage. Read again.

If they did what he ask, all they would have to do is make to charge little longer to compensate so there are far less hiccups at the cost of a little longer charge time.

So in the end, there would be NO difference in fire rate.

My point was that the difficulty from the short time you cannot charge again is something that adds some skill requirement and make it harder but no less useful to use. Making it harder to use makes it less powerful practically but not theoretically. It is teetering on the edge of being overpowered at the moment. If you make it easier to use, and thus more powerful practically, it would be closer to needing a nerf.

There are already enough people trying to get it nerfed, why give them more credibility?

[YummyBubbles]

I think the OP is talking about how the charging function works, not really about how over or underpowered it is. There's been suggestions floating around the forum on UI improvements, and while they do need some improvement, I also think that part of it is the learning curve to using the weapon, the main curve being charge timing :D. Personally I'm a huge HUGE paris user, and the notifier I use is the slight rumble during the charge phase on my gamepad. If I can find those posts I'll put them in this thread too ^_^

[Azure_Kytia]

The OP is talking about how the Ogris requires a precise timing in order for the input to be recognised and acted upon. In video games, there are usually small windows of buffering time where the player can click "early" but the game acknowledges the input and waits until the counter or whatever is ready again, beginning the charge up. The rate of fire would not be affected, nor the damage output of the weapon for those who are used to it. When a player presses a button, it is a necessity for that input to have a reliable output when it is within expectations. The difference between 0.01 seconds and 0.02 seconds is miniscule in perceived time, however it is noticeable when the weapon doesn't do anything because the player pressed the button that fraction of a second too soon. 

 

Hence, the suggestion that the firing mechanisms could be tightened up, and an input buffer be implemented for a tenth of a second or so.

 

Bear in mind that this wouldn't mean you can fire your weapon a tenth of a second faster, but it does allow the computer to acknowledge your input and act on it once it is ready to do so.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Azure_Kyte

[OOLuigiOo]

My point was that the difficulty from the short time you cannot charge again is something that adds some skill requirement and make it harder but no less useful to use. Making it harder to use makes it less powerful practically but not theoretically. It is teetering on the edge of being overpowered at the moment. If you make it easier to use, and thus more powerful practically, it would be closer to needing a nerf.

There are already enough people trying to get it nerfed, why give them more credibility?

Discomfort just so it doesn't feel or seem so powerful and "OP". That sounds idiotic. It would be better to go with the more convenient approach. Doubt that if they made this change and kept the exact same fire rate, it would seem more powerful. once you master it, it's all the same. There is really no different. Besides, it's not as big a hindrance, just a minor inconvenience that should be addressed.

 

Don't really have this issue with the bow, but you have this issue with the Lanka which makes no sense. People are already saying it's garbage and not because of this.

 

Honestly, I've never used a rocket launcher or heard of one that has to be charged. Honestly, that sounds silly. Same with a sniper.

 

In the end, this change won't mean a damn thing, and if they are really so worried about it being op, then besides they should try something other than damage and comfort.

 

And if people cry op and nerf because of this, it just shows how truly stupid they are.

Edited July 7, 2013 by OOLuigiOo

[Rossman86]

I have an Ogris. I disagree with this idea. The Ogris is extremely powerful, but requires a lot of skill to use and not kill yourself (save on Xini defense, where it is much easier to use because there is very low chance of killing yourself). I consider these drawbacks part of the reason the Ogris is not OP, if they were to do this they would have to weaken the Ogris at the same time.

EDIT: I should note that not only do I have, but I mainly use the Ogris.

 

A minor annoyance is does not increase the skill needed to use this gun. The shot delay is fine but it's implementation is just clunky. It's not some sort of skill requirement.

[PaperAlien]

My point was that the difficulty from the short time you cannot charge again is something that adds some skill requirement and make it harder but no less useful to use. Making it harder to use makes it less powerful practically but not theoretically. It is teetering on the edge of being overpowered at the moment. If you make it easier to use, and thus more powerful practically, it would be closer to needing a nerf.

There are already enough people trying to get it nerfed, why give them more credibility?

The current firing mechanic actually adds a patience requirement and makes it more frustrating but no less difficult to use, funnily enough. People crying for nerf have obviously never instantly lost 1000+ shields/health from one badly-aimed shot.

[OOLuigiOo]

The least they can do is make the sound longer so you can fire right after the sound ends.

[DeatH-ReapeR]

if they add it to the charging and removing the gap between fire an re charging then it would be fine. even though it actually makes it slower in general.

since now it is to stop ppl from fireing fast after one shot like it is there to let ogris "cool" itself (that is what i am thinking.

[OrokinNoob]

I don't think everyone understands what the OP is saying...

I understand. They want a faster cool down between shots just because they are charged. Considering how much damage these weapons do unmodded, asking for an even faster cool down would be like making Orgis and Lanka full auto. Players could just hold down fire and wait for the weapon to go off.

Considering Ogris incredible self damage, I also want to make sure I'm dedicating a shot into an enemy and not myself or nearby structure/squadmate. If letting go of the charge too early happens, thats on the player. They added the glowing light to let us know when the weapon is fully charged. Any premature charges are on the player for not watching where they were going or the enemies around them that might disrupt the charge.

I would also like to not have to reload on energy weapons.....these are just player specific wants. They are not needed. This should also be in the weapons feedback.

Edited July 7, 2013 by OrokinNoob