Passive Aggressive Competition Is Not Cooperation

[Ninegal]

So my impressions of this game is that it isn't actually cooperative. It's passive aggressive competition. It seems like most people aren't actually cooperating with teammates particularly in PUG, because the system itemizes stats at the end of each mission. Moreover it often seems like no one actually works together in a PUG. This is problematic for me as my clan is small and while we help each other sometimes we also often have different goals while playing each day.

In PUG it often just feels like 4 people on the same mission competing for how many frags they can get without actually having any valid incentive to work together or even any way of actively competing with each other. This ultimately leads to passive aggressive forms of competition (like for instance rushing ahead to get grnneer informer kills before your "competition" does in the latest event).

There is no actual formal incentive to cooperate. We are often just thrust into a 4 player PUG mission unless you are in a clan. I will say clans are really the only way to cooperate, but even then there isn't much incentive in mission to cooperate beyond dojo construction. None of the skills actually play off each other in any meaningful way. Each warframe seems to be essentially evolving into stand alone powerhouses.

[LordOda]

If you believe there's no incentive to cooperate, then I'm afraid you may be unfamiliar with a few of the reward mechanics.

[Quazar123]

it should be that all kills by the entire party are counted so that it doesn't matter who in the game gets the kill instead its better to just solo somthing or have a party of 2 and trade off who gets the kills ......

 

edit: added

i however think that the warframes are all evolving to be better at cooperation not worse ive been using the rhino roar ans volt speed alot with my clan and its alot of fun and i like it, i played a good run i was rhino with roar there was a volt with speed and a trinity as well as a mag that was usuing shield polerize quite often and it was fun and we desemated quite a few infested on xini that way,

 

Edit added more thoughts

diferent skills that play off others :

 

Volts speed

Rhinos Roar

All trinity skills minus link

Mag bullet attractor + excaliburs radial javaln

vuband bastille vr infested  + embers world on fire

Frost bubble + vuaban bastill vrs grineer/corpus

Lokis radial disarm

 

i would probably be able to list more but im sleepy and going to bed

 

 

edit added 1 more

A good one me and my clan like to do is xini to round 30 using me as a vuaban with 2 saryns and ethir a nyx, trinity or rhino  saryns for dps for quick progression vuaban for protection and usually rhino for damage buff and aggro pull to clump enemies suffitiently for easy dispatch.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Quazar123

[Rottae]

Problem right now as I think OP is refering to is that nothing in this entire game actually requires you to work together. As our current event is showing off, there is no reason not to solo play if you want to participate and it's just a tedious long term grindfest. WF do not need more grinding, we need something to make our game more compelling to keep playing.

For instance, co-operative play that is required would be nice, some kind of difficulty after learning the controls and some more stalkerish events to spice it all up?

[gell]

If you believe there's no incentive to cooperate, then I'm afraid you may be unfamiliar with a few of the reward mechanics.

 

While they [barely] exist, and the devs have addressed their desire to keep the frames from being very cooperative by design, the OP has a point. I play with my clan which are all actual friends, and the vast majority of the time the game is easy enough that really all we're doing is running around to see who can kill what first. You just keep running until you hit the end. We mark some mods/resources, and keep on running.

 

Defense missions eventually require some form of cooperation, however it's really just what's best for yourself and your party. Loki might place a decoy in a nice spot that helps the whole team, or Frost places a snow globe on the cryopod and that helps everyone. Quazar pointed out some cooperative things... but it's still mostly do whatever you want all the time.

 

The incentive is missing mostly because the challenge is missing. When everything around is dying with a few shots (even Outer Terminus or wave 35+ in defense), what's the incentive to do really cooperative things? As Quasar said, recent changes are making the game more cooperative, so the designers must be feeling something similar to the OP.

 

 

it should be that all kills by the entire party are counted so that it doesn't matter who in the game gets the kill instead its better to just solo somthing or have a party of 2 and trade off who gets the kills ......

 

This already happens, although you have to be sort of close to get the XP.

[Quazar123]

 

This already happens, although you have to be sort of close to get the XP.

I meant that you should get a "kill" added to your kill count for the spy things

[SoulEchelon]

So my impressions of this game is that it isn't actually cooperative. It's passive aggressive competition. It seems like most people aren't actually cooperating with teammates particularly in PUG, because the system itemizes stats at the end of each mission. Moreover it often seems like no one actually works together in a PUG. This is problematic for me as my clan is small and while we help each other sometimes we also often have different goals while playing each day.

 

It's not because the system. It's the people themselves. DE gave those stats at the end of the mission for a few reasons:

 

1 - some of us actually like reading how well we did and learning if our current set up is better than an older one.

 

2 - MOST of us are extremely competitive and want to see if we're better than everyone else. (Frankly I'm not in either group. I just play what I want and have fun doing so, regardless of "frags" or whatever)

 

If DE didn't have these stats at the end of each mission, you'd see tons of people asking for it on the forums. That's sadly just how most gamers nowadays are.

 

In PUG it often just feels like 4 people on the same mission competing for how many frags they can get without actually having any valid incentive to work together or even any way of actively competing with each other. This ultimately leads to passive aggressive forms of competition (like for instance rushing ahead to get grnneer informer kills before your "competition" does in the latest event).

 

There are quite a few systems available to help your fellow Tenno in these missions. The biggest one is waypoints. The other big one is synergy between certain warframes' abilities.

 

As for the event, I agree being in a PUG is a BAAAAD idea. Everyone will be fighting with each other on who kills which drone. This is why they made sure to give Clan rewards - so everyone would A: Be inclined to join a clan, B: work with their current clans toward this goal. Usually clanmates will help each other. If you're not in a clan, solo is the best option (Frankly? It's the best option if you're in a clan too if you're trying for the top 100.)

 

Don't think I'm fully on DE's side however. I think they should've made it so that every drone kill counts for every player in that current mission. That would've definitely made it feel like more teamwork instead of competition.

 

 

There is no actual formal incentive to cooperate. We are often just thrust into a 4 player PUG mission unless you are in a clan. I will say clans are really the only way to cooperate, but even then there isn't much incentive in mission to cooperate beyond dojo construction. None of the skills actually play off each other in any meaningful way. Each warframe seems to be essentially evolving into stand alone powerhouses.

 

I don't think so. Though I agree with PUGs being less cooperative and more competitive, I disagree about the warframe abilities. There's quite a few that synergize with each other. Mag's Bullet Attractor + Excalibur's Radial Javelin can one-hit kill quite a few bosses. Then there's Volt's shield being able to supercharge everyone's bullets if they fly through it. Then there's Trinity's epic healing abilities. The list goes on.

 

TL;DR - It's not DE that made this game aggressively competitive. Though they could fix and work on a few things to make it more cooperative, it's not their fault. It's the community.

Edited July 7, 2013 by SoulEchelon

[Wynn]

Stop putting so much stock in the score board, if I'm playing say a Trinity and the other 3 are aoers I know I'm not going to top kills damage.

 

On the higher levels the incentive at high levels is you don't wipe or get farther as a team.

 

I would love more support focus frames but there is team work in some pugs happening.

[arch111]

Well i am not in a clan yet, but will eventually join or start one.

i wish that more rewards are put in the game.

Is there no bonuses other then revives?

I would like my gameplay to reward me for coop.

Achievements are good for this. Like,

Assisted kill

Team assisted kill/other

Killing streak

Bonus the more enemies killed in a row, speed xp bonus etc

Healing or defencive powers give rewards.

Hacking and defending hacker gives bonus to thosr involved

The powers and weapons could, if used in combo, give rewards abd bonuses.

But isnt the levels and the way we play the main reason?

I mean, decoy, snowglobe bullet attract are used as much to benifit one as the team?

We hurry, dont slow down, and its a hunt for xp and mats.

Not sure how to encourage tw other then classes,

Spy

Medic

Heavy gunner

Sniper

Or go the rpg route. Give stats at hacking, reviving, opening doors, etc.

let a tank give shields to a weak frame if staying close.

Let a fast frame give bonus speed to a slow frame if staying close.

two frames boost each others shield while teaming.

What do you think? Could this work?

[Wynn]

The profile tracks a lot of stuff like our hacks and rezs.

 

I think as the game gets harder they going to force more and more team work we will see with Nightmare mode.