Armor Ignore Vs Armorpiercing - Which Wins?

[Fl4m3Ph03n1x]

A few days ago I found a player that stated that AP is better than AI. Assuming that I can always hit the sweet spot, he claimed that AP would normal do a lot more damage.

 

With banshee, sonnar ability and Dread, he claimed to easily make 20.000 damage to a single foe.

 

Is this true? Is AP better than AI?

How can I compare the damage? Last time I player using AP I was always hitting the Infested Boots of the big guys and my maximum damage output was 300 -.-

[Zyfe3rX]

AI = Deals maximum base damage

AP = Deals damage BASED ON BASE DAMAGE. Has ups and downs

 

As a matter of fact they are of different types.

 

If you have high base damage, AP is better. But if you have lower base damage AI is betters !

[MetalGerbil]

considering how varied enemy stats are, depends on what you are shooting at.

AP scales better. as the tougher the enemy the more damage it gives you. while armor ignore just gives you your flat damage without considering the targets armor.

correct answer is they are both fantastic when working together.

[Definitegj]

AP + AI = Win.

 

End of story.

[Mickey1779]

AP + AI = Win.

 

End of story.

 

Precisely...

 

From http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage:_Armor_Piercing

 

Misconceptions:

• Armor ignoring weapons and charge attacks do not interfere with this mod at all. AP damage will work with them.
• This mod does not modify your weapon's damage. It adds a separate amount of damage based on the enemy's AP vulnerability.

[Vangate]

Armor ignore without a doubt. Armor piercing is damage multiplier, which deals additional damage along with regular attacks, while armor ignore literally ignores target's armor - hits right at health.

Also armor ignore is quiet unique feature, while piercing is a mod. At levels 30 + piercing weakens, armor ignore weapons do not weaken in damage. Armor ignore weapons commonly have innate staggering, which piercing weapons don't have.

[Segolia]

It's a bit of a silly comparison to make. Armor Piercing (AP) is essentially just a kind of elemental damage. It's generally considered the best element because there are very few enemies in the game which are resistant to AP - most will take 100% or greater damage from it.

 

Armor Ignore (AI) just means that the weapons damage isn't reduced by damage reduction rules (basically, enemies have the same kind of 'armor' that player frames do, the exact amount is based on enemy level. AI weapons ignore this damage reduction and deal the damage as if it were a 0% reduction from armor)

[effinator]

Why not just, have both of them?

[Fl4m3Ph03n1x]

So, basically, Paris is better than Dread?

[Vangate]

So, basically, Paris is better than Dread?

Undoubtfully, just as Kunai are better than Despair. At least in terms of effective damage.

[Aedwynn]

And here appears a problem: as enemy levels go up, their resistances go up, while vulnerabilities go down. That means that at certain point vulnerability stops being vulnerability. That's why AP scales bad with enemy level, as bonus damage recieved from it goes down, while AI gives you same damage, no matter what enemy have. So, at certain point, AI> AP, but as people said, AI+AP is best, and in case described by OP, Paris = AI, with AP mod it will deal some serious damage.

Edit: ofc I meant Paris, Dread do not have AI

Edited July 8, 2013 by Aedwynn

[effinator]

Undoubtfully, just as Kunai are better than Despair. At least in terms of effective damage.

 

Elaborate, as both ignore armor just that one gets a 50% bonus damage to medium grineers. Only 'downside' of despair are light infested.

[Tyrian3k]

AP is superior against Grineer, AI is superior against Infested.

Against Corpus both are about equal. The only difference is that AP deals more damage on headshots on crewmen.

 

basically, enemies have the same kind of 'armor' that player frames do...

 

That's wrong. Enemies have different resistances against each type of damage, which also scale at different rates.

 

 

And here appears a problem: as enemy levels go up, their resistances go up, while vulnerabilities go down. That means that at certain point vulnerability stops being vulnerability. That's why AP scales bad with enemy level, as bonus damage recieved from it goes down, while AI gives you same damage, no matter what enemy have. So, at certain point, AI> AP, but as people said, AI+AP is best, and in case described by OP, Paris = AI, with AP mod it will deal some serious damage.

Edit: ofc I meant Paris, Dread do not have AI

 

AP damage is not affected by increasing resistances and always deals the same damage, no matter what level the enemy is.

[Aedwynn]

AP is superior against Grineer, AI is superior against Infested.

Against Corpus both are about equal. The only difference is that AP deals more damage on headshots on crewmen.

 

 

That's wrong. Enemies have different resistances against each type of damage, which also scale at different rates.

 

 

 

AP damage is not affected by increasing resistances and always deals the same damage, no matter what level the enemy is.

Yes, enemies have different multipliers for different types of damage.

But, AP is just another elemental damage, that is treated exactly the same way as Fire/Electric/Frost. That's why at certain enemy level even grineer will be immune to AP shots at body. Try Infinite defense, wave 150+.

[Wormyish]

So, basically, Paris is better than Dread?

depends

I fight almost exclusively infested, so using weapons like ingius and Dread aren't out of the question.

Boltor is what I've been using recently though, that thing is a monster.

[Indalx]

Will Extra Armor Pierce mods work with Despairs?

[Aedwynn]

Will Extra Armor Pierce mods work with Despairs?

a) You can Install only one mod of same name, so you can't have two AP mods in 1 weapon. 

b) AP mods do not interfere in any way with AI. So, no problem here, they'll work fine.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Aedwynn

[Fl4m3Ph03n1x]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the main difference between Paris and that is that Paris has AI, while Dread has AP, thus dealing more damage on weak spots right?

 

If this is wrong, what is the main different between the two?

[Wormyish]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the main difference between Paris and that is that Paris has AI, while Dread has AP, thus dealing more damage on weak spots right?

 

If this is wrong, what is the main different between the two?

Paris is peirce

Dread is slashing, the only rifle that has properties of a melee weapon.

good for light infested, especially when you line up a shot on defence, leaves gaping LINES in the wall of infested rushing toward you.

[DarkMark]

No, dread is slashing, which is pretty similar to normal bullet damage. You're probably thinking of Kunai and Despair, which are armor ignore and armor piercing respectively.

 

Despair is still better against everything, due to not staggering and being able to penetrate through an infinite number of enemies if you're hosting.

Edited July 8, 2013 by DarkMark

[Wormyish]

No, dread is slashing, which is pretty similar to normal bullet damage. You're probably thinking of Kunai and Despair, which are armor ignore and armor piercing respectively.

 

Despair is still better against everything, due to not staggering and being able to penetrate through an infinite number of enemies if you're hosting.

slashing gives 3x damage bonus to infected, where regular bullets do not.

[Tyrian3k]

Yes, enemies have different multipliers for different types of damage.

But, AP is just another elemental damage, that is treated exactly the same way as Fire/Electric/Frost. That's why at certain enemy level even grineer will be immune to AP shots at body. Try Infinite defense, wave 150+.

 

They won't be immune as their resistance to AP damage doesn't increase at all.

If it would, I would not deal the exact same amount of AP damage to Grineer on Mercury as I deal on Ceres.

Not even infested are ever immune to AP damage. They always take half the damage, no matter what.

[Aedwynn]

Ah yes, they changed it all recently.

[Dreiii]

Why not both? 

[Dreiii]

AP is superior against Grineer, AI is superior against Infested.

Against Corpus both are about equal. The only difference is that AP deals more damage on headshots on crewmen.

 

AI ignores armor regardless of what faction, it just depends on what you are shooting at AI would take out a grineer between the levels of 5-15 from a headshot and would go through the armor of an Ancient infested ( you can shoot them in the stomach area and directly damage the health)

 

AP is superior and inferior depending on the weapons base damage, it is recognized as elemental damage that has no penalty to what race just to how much armor your target has.

[oKibbles]

I'm a little confused on the answer, which one is better?
Strictly in terms of high leveled infested ancients, armor pierce would be better right?

Taken from wiki, this chart tells me that if I was to shoot an ancient in the foot I would do 100% of my weapon's base right (normal)? This means that I would do the same amount of damage to the body if my weapon had armor ignore? And if I had armor pierce instead of ignore, I would do 100% of my weapon's base and 100% of the bonus damage I get from armor pierce from aiming at the foot?

Assuming I read the chart correct, wouldn't AP be better if I was to shoot at ancient's critical spots. Because armor ignore doesn't add any dmg. And piercing does base + bonus AP dmg if I was to shoot it in the foot.

Edit: And since I see no reduction to vulnerabilities on the calf, that means I would essentially do the same amount of dmg to an Ancient Disrupter [65] as opposed to an Ancient Disrupter [435]?
 

Edited July 9, 2013 by oKibbles