Mastery Experience - Forma

[Endrance]

Ok, i know alot of you will directly say "hell no", but read it at least to know why it makes no sense not gaining extra XP.

 

 

Now, everyone know, that we only get Mastery for every new weapon XP up to lvl 30 giving us a 3000 XP, but, if you use a Forma and level it back you won't gain anything.

 

 

My point here is that, it's senseless, the fact that you already leveled the weapon means not much, since you're leveling it again (and since you used a forma) most likely the weapon is different now, so why not gaining XP again? 

 

In the end, you're gaining more mastery on that weapon usage, so i would really like to ask, to be able to gain mastery on Forma'd weapons.

 

 

I don't ask for gaining XP for every forma i add, but at least the 1st time, and 1st forma, or even 2 forma.

 

I've tested so many weapons ingame, to hate most of them, and the only one i like is in my backpack for over 2 months now, because i want to get mastery ranks, and for that i must keep changing weapons.

 

 

I would ask for passive XP gain even after lvl 30, at 25% normal rate, but i highly doubt it would be accepted.

 

 

Please, post your opinions, if you like it, or not, and why, or what other kind of alternative you would prefer

[MylesShort]

Not sure how fair it is to other players, but i for one would love SOME mastery points from re-leveling a forma'd weapon, even if it was half the points.

[Venarge]

Dont like it....

 

You get these xp for mastering the weapon. If you have it at 30, you fully mastered it.

It wouldnt make sense to get XP for the same thing again. And formas dont change the usage of the weapon.

It just gives you more points to spent. nothing mechanic changing. Its nothing new you would "learn"

Its reasonable to not gain experience again and again and again....

[sambarpowder]

Not sure how fair it is to other players, but i for one would love SOME mastery points from re-leveling a forma'd weapon, even if it was half the points.

Half over each time might be alright...

[Endrance]

It wouldnt make sense to get XP for the same thing again. And formas dont change the usage of the weapon.

Adding a Forma to the weapon may change it big time, for example:

 

My favorite weapon is by far Fang, i have a bit of hard time to squish infested since i have a 50% damage penalty to them, so, to compensate this penalty i need to add Molten Impact, at least rank 2/3 to compensate the penalty.

 

If i forma it to a polarity of bar, i will make fang by far stronger, since I've literally "deleted" it's only downside. 

 

Also, you never fully master anything. The more you use, the better you are with it.

 

Anyway, i respect your opinion, just gave my opinion towards your. Hope i didn't disrespect you or anything.

 

Regards

[MetalGerbil]

if you look at the mastery rank as a gate to more stuff, you will ask for it whenever you get a chance.

if you look at it as a mastery of all the weps in the game, it makes no sense to get it any other way than to master that weapon once. you would be getting mastery for doing something again, rather than doing something new.

DE sees it as a way to get you to buy slots for when you try new things and want to keep some of them as you gain more mastery.

point is you are never going to see this in the game. mastery rank is not just base experience. it forces you to get new weps all the time and thats the idea. getting you to get new weps. not relevel all your current ones with forma.

[Endrance]

if you look at the mastery rank as a gate to more stuff, you will ask for it whenever you get a chance.

if you look at it as a mastery of all the weps in the game, it makes no sense to get it any other way than to master that weapon once. you would be getting mastery for doing something again, rather than doing something new.

DE sees it as a way to get you to buy slots for when you try new things and want to keep some of them as you gain more mastery.

point is you are never going to see this in the game. mastery rank is not just base experience. it forces you to get new weps all the time and thats the idea. getting you to get new weps. not relevel all your current ones with forma.

Indeed, but it also prevent you of being able to use the weapon you really like, because if you do, you won't be gaining any mastery will you now.

 

I don't mind the current system, i would just approve an alternative. Like MylesShort said, gaining half the Experience would still be great.

 

I've already mastered a nice number of weapons, but nowhere near half, and yet, i can't use my favorite weapons since i would not gain Mastery Rank.

 

Also, atm there is no much "need" for MR, only up to Rank 7 for lab weapons, but that is for now.

 

This are the weapons i've mastered so far, i know there are alot of weapons to master, but still

Branton

Branton M(something)

Latron

Snipertron

Paris

Boltor

Snipertron Vandal (in progress)

 

Lato

Aklato

Twin Viper

Akbolto

Kunai

Despair

Lex (in progress)

 

Skana

Dual Skana

Cronus

Fang

Dark Sword

Dual Zoren

Gram

Dual Ether Dagger (in progress)

Orthos (next on menu)

[MetalGerbil]

as you say, there is not that much need for mastery right now.

there is nothing stopping you from using your favorite wep most of the time, and dipping into new ones when you feel like it.

so again, if the whole point of the system is to try new things, why would then encourage you to not try new things?

i can tell you right now there are some weps i would have never tried, and loved, if i wasnt going for the mastery points.

there are alot of elements of the system that feel forced, but i think that will ease up with time, as more weps are introduced you will have more options for things you like and still make plenty of mastery to cover your needs.

considering how endgame is non-existent in this game, what else would you do besides farm, build and level weps and warframes? mods are achieved as part of the process to that end. if you could just pick your three weps and a frame, and level nothing else..... what would you be doing?

[Endrance]

You're probably right, you do have a nice point there.

 

Thanks for your opinion.

[liavalenth]

I am currently leveling a bronco by keeping it on my character and only using my main and melee weapon. I do not like the weapon, but I want higher mastery. So, I must level it through not using it.

As long as this option exists there is no reason to stop people from gaining mastery for re-leveling weapons they have used a forma on. Removing this option would be a very effective way of making a large number of people angry, to say the least.

Now, does Mastery as a measure of how many weapons you have leveled make sense? sort of, ya. If the purpose is to get people to try out many different weapons, then it generally works. I know I would not know that I hate the Bronco had Mastery not existed. However, does making me equip weapons I do not like so that other people can level them make sense? I would say no, but that's just me I guess.

EDIT: I should note that I would know I did not like the bronco. I tried it out a while ago and learned I didn't like it. However, now that I am after higher mastery, I hate it because I have to use it.

Edited July 9, 2013 by liavalenth

[LasersGoPewPew]

"Mastery Rank"->"HEY GUYS LOOK HOW MANY WEAPONS I MAXED OUT AND SOLD FOR 5,000 CREDITS!"

 

+1 for getting exp from forma'd equipment even if it was highly reduced exp.

[Slayblaze]

To those of you talking about "mastering the usage of a single weapon", let's face it - there's nothing complex about it. I've "mastered" every weapon in the game within the first few moments after obtaining it. You aim, overlay the reticule onto the desired target, and press left mouse button.

 

If the weapon has projectiles with flight time you lead the target a little, and if its hitscan you don't. It's not difficult.

 

As to the subject of gaining Mastery XP for forma'd weapons, then I agree there should be some, but with diminishing returns perhaps.

[Phatose]

Dispensing of all thoughts on sensibility outside of gameplay, Forma does not need additional benefits.  It's already the equivalent of 5-7 mod points, which is a huge deal in and of itself.

 

As it is, Mastery rank serves the purpose of forcing you to use multiple different weapons and frames.  This is intentional.  It both slows down progress - which, in a game as farming oriented as this one, is in fact a prime goal - and makes players farm out the parts for frames and weapons, as well as forcing them to use different weapons.

 

It means you are constantly faced with a trade off - either use your formaed supergun, and forgo mastery rank for efficiency, or use a brand new weapon which is less efficient but will give you mastery rank.  That's adding depth. 

 

I'd rather not have this added.  At best, it needs to have an exponential decay.  Second forma is 1/2 xp, third is 1/4xp, and so forth.  That way, forma will never be a replacement for using alternative weapons, as is the intent of the mastery system in the first place.

[Carcharias]

Mastery and Forma are definitely juxtaposed. Why did they do this? I have no idea. Mastery encourages you to try a bunch of different stuff. Forma encourages you to play with your favorite weapons and frame. I really think the Devs are giving us mixed signals here and I kinda wish they would make up their minds. Either give like 50% mastery on forma'd stuff or take it back out completely.

[Eirshy]

I'd rather not have this added.  At best, it needs to have an exponential decay.  Second forma is 1/2 xp, third is 1/4xp, and so forth.  That way, forma will never be a replacement for using alternative weapons, as is the intent of the mastery system in the first place.

 

This I'd like.

 

I completely agree it's annoying to have a set of twice forma'd and potato'd twin vipers that you love, but being forced to use other things like a plain Furis (and eventually the afuris). Or rather, instead of "use" I should say "go to Kiste or Kappa in a party". Because I seriously have no want or use for the furis/afuris due to already having a lovely set of vipers- which I went for first because I figured I'd like them.

 

Kunai? I have Despair, which are better in 99% of cases.

Grakkata? Gorgon? Braton? I don't like inaccurate guns, and the Supra only dodges that sin because it looks cool.

Shotguns? Also inaccurate, and in a game that REQUIRES accuracy (currently) it's not a redeemable sin.

New melee weapons? Zorens have more mobility, Orthos has more damage, Gram has the same utility level.

Edited July 10, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[ToeSama]

I don't see why not just have Forma give full XP values again. The game needs LESS grind, not more. Why grind the materials to make a weapon you've already made and level it X times to get mastery points from it when you can just Forma the thing. It's going to need to take a long &#! time anyways... All that's doing is extending the endgame artificially. To say nothing about the fact that research weapons are the only reason to boost your mastery beyond 4, and it's a long grind time before many people even get those...

[liavalenth]

I understand that Mastery is in place to get people to try out different weapons. But the amount of time I have to 'try out' weapons I already know I do not like is my problem with Mastery. If I could get all the Mastery of a weapon from 10 levels it would not be that bad. Instead I have to keep using them until they hit 30 when I can finally sell them and try out a new weapon I will most likely not like either.

As I said I am fake leveling Broncos because I do not like them but want their Mastery. Does this make me try a new weapon? No, I already tried them, found I did not like them, sold them, then remade them to get mastery. Does this make me play longer? No, I am going to play rather or not I am using this weapon. If anything it decreases my chances of staying when I am forced to play with things I do not like. Are there any benefits to making me get 30 levels in a weapon I do not like? I don't know, but I cannot see any.

Edited July 10, 2013 by liavalenth

[DarkLizalfos]

Shouldn't you be asking for mastery rank exp to be set apart from gear ranking? Gaining mod ranks not affecting anything else. When you complete a mission you receive mastery exp based on your current rank vs the lowest enemy level for that mission. That way you can keep using your precious MK1 all you want until you can build the rocket launcher you're really going for. After you eventually grind all the highest level missions in the game over like a billion times, but you got there and proved to the Lotus that you're the most stubborn Excal out there. Definitely deserving of your right of cattle prod ownership.

Edited July 10, 2013 by DarkLizalfos

[lstalri]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/73667-frequently-given-feedback/

 

X4) Forma -> Mastery EXP - still no answer [added by notionphil]
[info provided by lstalri]:
mastery xp on formad items, gain mastery points from formad weapons
General Consensus: Split community, though most settle for diminishing returns (1st forma gives 50% xp, 2nd gives 25%, etc..  Numbers are obviously always up for debate).

 

 

Isn't there a rule against making 8000 threads on the same topic or something?

[unmog]

That doesnt mean people shouldnt be allowed to make a post about an issue that is still relevant to many players Istairi.

 

I for one agree, we should get mastery for forma-ing an item. But we dont, I blame lazy coding in regards to the whole mastery rank system.

[lostinrehab]

No. Even with diminishing returns it would break the reason mastery exist in its current state which is to get people to play with new weapons. Also DE patched being able to buy/build a weapon and re level it for mastery because it was too exploitable as is this.

[Grulos]

Not sure how fair it is to other players, but i for one would love SOME mastery points from re-leveling a forma'd weapon, even if it was half the points.

Decreasing it by half every time the weapon is jigged sounds awesome.

[lstalri]

That doesnt mean people shouldnt be allowed to make a post about an issue that is still relevant to many players Istairi.

Yes, they have the right to post, express their ideas, and be heard or rejected. 

No, they do not have the right to be lazy, not look for another thread of the same topic, and not contribute to a thread that is already plenty productive. 

No, they do not have the right to spam multiples of the same exact thread so people just have to repeat themselves with the same arguments 8 different times. 

Edited July 11, 2013 by lstalri