Warframe Alienates Working Class Players

[Azjhoolies]

I sympathized with you until the final line. Also, I detect a little bit of narcissism in yer post, Guvna.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Azjhoolies

[Rawmelon789]

You imply that your life is too busy to play warframe, yet you're mastery lvl 9 and own all the frames?

 

Get your S*** together tyrone!

just like a paradox he can't work and play at the same time can't he?

[S5alad]

DE is adding in resource-specific rewards for things in the future. They're adding them to alerts 2.1, as they noted in the Hot Topics thread. They're also going to be adding quests/missions where you know ahead of time what you're guaranteed to get.

 

So, you're kind of gnashing your teeth and flipped your hair at DE (you were calm, but you didn't express any reasoning beyond frustrated reaction). Just think for a second. The game isn't done. While I don't believe it, DE says the game is still in beta (it's actually a released game that is unpolished). The good thing is that as far as development goes, DE is the best dev I've seen in terms of speed of updates, community interaction and response (maybe too much), and really trying to improve on a game without their pride getting in the way. Btw, I'm also a working adult, with little time to farm/grind, and I've been looking for a Control Module for the past 5 days. I'm also a game developer, who has talked to some of the DE staff, and I really feel they're trying to make the game fun for many folks, not just kids with free time. They're working adults too, and judging by the folks I work with, crazy passionate about video games and making them really great, for as many people as possible, including entertaining ourselves.

 

I'd say, just take a break. By the time you return, the game will have vastly changed (I can't say it will improve, but I'm guessing it will very much so). You don't have to quit in a huff. You know when you haven't seen a kid (maybe a cousin or a niece) since a year ago, and you see how much they've grown? Just come back later and see how far Warframe has come. It's good for you to make that post though. It reaffirms DE is making the right changes, because they've spoken about it quite a few times. See you back here in a few.

I understand that my post is lacking coherency and well, I wish I could edit the title but I can't.  People are saying I don't work because I'm mastery 9, when in reality I'm clocking 60 hours a week at work and only 7 hours a week in Warframe.  I've done my best to maximize the efficiency of my time in this game, as do many individuals who work long hours and enjoy the low cost and high enjoyment of free to play games.

 

I really do hope that Warframe improves.  I mean, I've dropped the money to be a founder, and yet I can't help but feel my voice matters very little.  Perhaps I have unrealistic expectations of how quickly a game should develop.

 

Anyways, I just wanted to quote your comment and say that you're 100% correct.  I have faith in the development team to improve the game and make it more bearable and less reliant on sheer stupid amount of hours played.  I will most likely be back, but for now, I have to convey to DE the specific mechanic of the game that broke it for me and made me re-evaluate how I'd like to spend my time.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Swaggermeistress

[_Rue_]

WAIT...

 

is there a hobby that you can excel at that doesn't require time?

 

Cuz I work too; I'm a supervisor. I am rank 11 and I have all weapons at rank 30 except Sandal (all that I have access to) and I want that hobby that takes none of my time and I can still get what everyone else has regardless of how much tume they spend doing it.

[S5alad]

WAIT...

 

is there a hobby that you can excel at that doesn't require time?

 

Cuz I work too; I'm a supervisor. I am rank 11 and I have all weapons at rank 30 except Sandal (all that I have access to) and I want that hobby that takes none of my time and I can still get what everyone else has regardless of how much tume they spend doing it.

You've obviously found more time to play than I have, judging by your rank, accomplishments in game, and post volume on the forums.  Good for you.

[Shion963]

I understand that my post is lacking coherency and well, I wish I could edit the title but I can't.

 

Full Editor on the first post allows you to edit the title.

[Trololol_Banana]

And again... so many people post the same topics about control modules... The game should be challenging, not no-life farming. That is the problem with PvE. Therefore the solution is, make the drop guaranteed! BUT(!!!) Make the bosses harder to kill. The Hyena is dead in 20 seconds with a little leveled people. It should take at least 5 minutes, and a few revives. I already posted a topic about PvE and PvP, so please do not respond about that here, but at the topic made for it, only respond about the solution please.

[_Rue_]

 

You've obviously found more time to play than I have, judging by your rank, accomplishments in game, and post volume on the forums.  Good for you.

 

I've been playing since January. Maybe if you played longer (even 1 hour a day for 10 days is 10 hours) you would get wat you need. It'll take longer but you'd eventually get it >_>

[Aedwynn]

   

I've been playing since January. Maybe if you played longer (even 1 hour a day for 10 days is 10 hours) you would get wat you need. It'll take longer but you'd eventually get it >_>

Problem is, at current rate game becomes boring as hell, as there is too much repetitive actions. After last event I don't want to play Warframe now. I'm sick of farming drones over and over again, same with resources. If it was challenging - ok, but it isn't.

[Phoenix86]

I work, i have a kinda busy RL and soon even busier (a child incoming XD )

never had issues in finding res or stuff... yes it may take more time to me than my clan mates who are on holiday since they are younger...

but i defenetely do not meet any problem! (beside that Trinity system... god i hated it so much lol)

 

and btw having all without grind, considering the game's genre/playstyle would lead to an emptied community in no time... this game needs grind... because atm it doesnt offer anything else to do.

[Leyden]

48 hyena runs , i'm on you with this Rng can be a b*tch ,

still, saying 

 

-"Warframe alienate working class player"

 

is ridiculous , more time spend on something give you more result , since you work you know that.

[neKroMancer]

I see this as a problem as well. However, I have heen playing multiple games and rotate them regularly in order to prolong their lifetime (still rotate between a bit of Hawken, X-com, Galactic civilization, and Civilization4). Warframe has a bit of my time, some days I can play for hours then I play it long. Some day just one mission and I got bored. Some days just login for reward and logout. Stop playing and do something else is a good way out, personally.

With the incoming changes to droprate and alert system, I think it will be less problematic.

[Hanzo29]

NAh dude you have a valid point. some people have lives. i Do have the time to put in but i hear were you coming from. SOME of the farming is too hard. some things don't drop enough. sometimes you get lucky and its there first try, sometimes it takes 10 or 15 trys. its frustrating.

[falcon2500]

I interpreted this as "I don't have time to farm so just give me what I want now".

+1

[Aedwynn]

Personaly I think putting rare resources as reward for completing Alert solves all issues.

a) It remains rare as you can't farm same alert again and again and have to wait for one.

b) Choosing to which alerts attach such reward allows control of Difficulty and drop rate.

c) It is guaranteed reward for effort.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Aedwynn

[ToeSama]

Changes are coming in the future that make the grind easier and less time consuming. As far as your contributions go, you're doing a lot better than me for a working class stiff.

Stick it out and see what the future has to offer. It may be a definite farming game, but it's a lot better than Borderlands 2. I left that game for this one, and I've never been happier. At least here I can grind what I want with a reasonable probability of outcome.

Edited July 10, 2013 by ToeSama

[PettiTheYeti]

If you are working class, you imply that you have a job, which implies you SHOULD have a few extra dollars somewhere. Suck it up and support the devs by actually buying something.

[Aedwynn]

If you are working class, you imply that you have a job, which implies you SHOULD have a few extra dollars somewhere. Suck it up and support the devs by actually buying something.

But how does that make game more interesting? Or should he buy every little thing just because he works? Wouldn't you be first yelling it's pay to win in that case? Problem is not that he is working, worker <> payer. Problem is he can't spend a lot of time on that game at same time he doesn't plan to buy everything with money, he wants to earn something in-game. But in the end, he still has to do same stupid grind, and while it is okay for youngsters to play game all day long to get something, he from his life exp knows how stupid it would be to waste his time in such way, but he got no workaround. He can't challenge game to get said reward via skill, not time contribution. Time contribution to game should lead to player increasing his skill, so he can challenge greater enemies for greater rewards. That means skilled players will get things fast as reward for their skill. Lazy/unskilled - via grind. Currently there is only one way - grind, so no reason to raise your skill. Ult spamming is proof enough - players simply go low level areas and spam 4 to win&grind. Do they get any challenge? No.

[wfrawn]

> However, some kid with no job and no life obligations will take my place, and excel, because this game only rewards people with nothing to do but pour all their time into Warframe.

This is how all games are,

That is not true. There are scores of games (any game that's not an RPG of some kind) where the incentive to play is not rewards, but the gameplay itself.

 

 

It should be as simple as, I run the boss, I get the rare material.

Then you'd have all your weapons 'researched' within a week or so. And since gaining power/rewards appears to be the goal of this game (as much as with any other rpg/mmo), it would be "game over" real soon. (And certainly such materials should not be called "rare".)

Edited July 10, 2013 by wfrawn

[Aedwynn]

Then you'd have all your weapons 'researched' within a week or so. And since gaining power/rewards appears to be the goal of this game (as much as with any other rpg/mmo), it would be "game over" real soon. (And certainly such materials should not be called "rare".)

They should be called Rare an that's how it is in 90% MMO. Rare doesn't mean they appear rarely, it means they are hard to get. Bosses should be hard to beat ( that's not the case > problem), thus limiting your ability to get Rare resources. Again, you still get only 1 per run at best, while you can hoard like 1000+ of common resources per run.

[PettiTheYeti]

But how does that make game more interesting? Or should he buy every little thing just because he works? Wouldn't you be first yelling it's pay to win in that case? Problem is not that he is working, worker <> payer. Problem is he can't spend a lot of time on that game at same time he doesn't plan to buy everything with money, he wants to earn something in-game. But in the end, he still has to do same stupid grind, and while it is okay for youngsters to play game all day long to get something, he from his life exp knows how stupid it would be to waste his time in such way, but he got no workaround. He can't challenge game to get said reward via skill, not time contribution. Time contribution to game should lead to player increasing his skill, so he can challenge greater enemies for greater rewards. That means skilled players will get things fast as reward for their skill. Lazy/unskilled - via grind. Currently there is only one way - grind, so no reason to raise your skill. Ult spamming is proof enough - players simply go low level areas and spam 4 to win&grind. Do they get any challenge? No.

 

I never said it would make the game more interesting. But if he is going to complain about not having time to farm because of his job, and still wants the gear, he can just buy it. Right now, that's the only work around to spending hours or days searching for something, then crafting it.

 

Sure, you can get everything in the game free, eventually. But those who buy are already using the gear the farmer is still trying to find blueprints to. That option gives a distinct advantage over the ones who choose to farm and craft. So, in a sense, yes, that would be pay to win. Go ahead and call it. Most "free to play" games are the exact same, whether you are buying weapons, characters, or whatever.

 

My take on the matter? You either spend hours farming and crafting, or you spend hours working for money and can buy the same thing for less hassle. Pick your poison.

 

I usually choose to spend money on games I enjoy because it funds the future content of the game.

Edited July 10, 2013 by PettiTheYeti

[Niavlys77]

I agree with this. There seriously needs to be a more guaranteed way of gathering specific materials. It's just too random, and really works poorly for those who can't play more than an hour per day.

[YourFriendlyNoggin]

While I agree with the sentiment that the game needs more rewarding gameplay other than the farm the way you are talking about your complaint is ridiculous. The time you put into a game, or anything for that matter, is no more or less important than anyone elses time, when you start claiming otherwise you are essentially insulting every other player with a different lifestyle to yours. The simple fact is that people who put more time than you into something are going to receive more rewards, because that's fair, they put in the time, you didn't. What isn't fair is life, that's what this is more a complaint about but as DE is not in control of your life maybe you should rethink where you aim your complaint.

Tl;dr Don't act like your time is worth more, but complaining about the rewarding gameplay for gameplays sake is fine.

[Fluffbane]

The sentiment isn't that one's time is any more valuable than anyone else's. The issue is feeling like one's time is worth nothing in what is supposed to be a leisure activity.

 

This is basically a question of reward versus time invested. The time/reward thing wouldn't be hurt by something like a guaranteed drop, because that directly rewards time spent. For instance, suppose you could get one widget per hour, and widgets were required for things one wanted (note that not everything can be bought for platinum). Now, if someone can play for one hour, they get one widget, and someone else can play for five, then they get five widgets. Five times the reward for five times the time. That is a sensible if decidedly not reality-based system (I'll get to that later). 

 

The problem is that currently it's possible for someone to farm for five hours and get zero widgets, whereas someone else can farm for one hour and get five widgets. This means that time spent is NOT being directly rewarded, and this is the problem. The only thing really being rewarded is luck, and the only way to, as the quote goes, "make your own luck," is to simply smash your head against things for a potentially infinite amount of time until the winds of fate blow your way. It's just as depressing in a video game as it is in real life.

 

Which is the other thing, people saying here and in similar threads "life is unfair." Sure, absolutely. In life, you can put in hours and hours at your career but lose a promotion to the slacker dating the boss's offspring. The thing to keep in mind is that this is a video game, not real life. The point of the game is to escape the travails and travesties of everyday existence and be in a created world, which is more just and rewarding and fantastical than reality. When your escapist activities do nothing but remind you of monotony and unfairness, you might as well just go back to work.

 

On a final and vaguely related note, I do agree that many of the DE staff, notably Steve, have decried the exposed evil of the RNG and that it must be changed somehow. I understand completely why it was done in the first place; it's an established system in many other games and is relatively easy to implement. However, as they have also noted, as the game has changed it has become apparent it's not working so well here and needs adjustment in some form, and I have something resembling faith that they'll actually fix it as soon as the code doesn't explode the game.

[Aedwynn]

The sentiment isn't that one's time is any more valuable than anyone else's. The issue is feeling like one's time is worth nothing in what is supposed to be a leisure activity.

 

This is basically a question of reward versus time invested. The time/reward thing wouldn't be hurt by something like a guaranteed drop, because that directly rewards time spent. For instance, suppose you could get one widget per hour, and widgets were required for things one wanted (note that not everything can be bought for platinum). Now, if someone can play for one hour, they get one widget, and someone else can play for five, then they get five widgets. Five times the reward for five times the time. That is a sensible if decidedly not reality-based system (I'll get to that later). 

 

The problem is that currently it's possible for someone to farm for five hours and get zero widgets, whereas someone else can farm for one hour and get five widgets. This means that time spent is NOT being directly rewarded, and this is the problem. The only thing really being rewarded is luck, and the only way to, as the quote goes, "make your own luck," is to simply smash your head against things for a potentially infinite amount of time until the winds of fate blow your way. It's just as depressing in a video game as it is in real life.

 

Which is the other thing, people saying here and in similar threads "life is unfair." Sure, absolutely. In life, you can put in hours and hours at your career but lose a promotion to the slacker dating the boss's offspring. The thing to keep in mind is that this is a video game, not real life. The point of the game is to escape the travails and travesties of everyday existence and be in a created world, which is more just and rewarding and fantastical than reality. When your escapist activities do nothing but remind you of monotony and unfairness, you might as well just go back to work.

 

On a final and vaguely related note, I do agree that many of the DE staff, notably Steve, have decried the exposed evil of the RNG and that it must be changed somehow. I understand completely why it was done in the first place; it's an established system in many other games and is relatively easy to implement. However, as they have also noted, as the game has changed it has become apparent it's not working so well here and needs adjustment in some form, and I have something resembling faith that they'll actually fix it as soon as the code doesn't explode the game.

Exactly. On other note, game can be set up that spending some time and gaining skill is rewarded by ability to clear hard content with guaranteed reward. Example is Alerts. They appear randomly. so you can't farm them as often as you could, they Generally harder than base game content, they reward more and require from players more. If they required more skill, not simply more gear I would applaud and say Brilliant. Best way to get rare stuff.

On last note I do think that people who play game and learn something - about game, about rules ( those who gain skill) should be rewarded more for their time spent than people who in same time learnt nothing. But that has nothing to do with time spent between those two examples.