Loki Needs No Rework

[Numot]

Gear Player skill dependent frame.... ahahhaha.

Fixed

[Troublechutor]

The fact that Loki doesn't have anything directly offensive in his kit but rather a suite of versatile utility and defense powers with one power that has an at-all offensive application (and if you only use Invisibility for the damage buff then yes, you are doing it wrong) is not, in fact, a personal failing of mine.  It's because Loki is a support frame.  I didn't say you can't solo with Loki and be successful, when, in fact, I've soloed a LOT with Loki.  I started with the damn thing, so of course I've done solo missions with him.

As another example, should you happen to play League of Legends, you will see Support champions actually doing all kinds of things.  I once saw a Korean, professional LoL team play a game with 3 support champions, obviously 2 of which were not actually being played AS support champions, plus a Mage that's numerically not very good (which tends to push them to a Support role in practice) and set up the most amazingly awesome AoE combo and Ace the other team.  It was effective for them to take Support champions and play them some other way, but it doesn't change the fact that they were using 3 Support champions.  That fact isn't the result of a personal failing of mine, either.

Here is where you fall for the "role" trap though.  You equate "no damage dealing spells" to "no offensive spells" which is why your loki game is limited.  It's not about you having a personal failing, its about a failure of imagination, or more specifically, a failure to execute.  

 

There is no reason to look at Loki's set of abilities and potentials and think he's a support-only frame, unless you have a rote interpretation of how game mechanics add up to a role for class-based systems.  You mention LOL support heroes, this game is not remotely like LOL except on very superficial levels, but based on your familiarity with another game you have extrapolated (badly) its core attributes and projected them (again, badly) to Warframe.  

 

To sum it up, you can't look at loki independent of his loadout, which is entirely up the the player, and define his role based on your limited view of what he's "best at" which is making other frames more dangerous.  How do you define this?  What imagined outcomes have you set in your mind that determine what Loki is capable of?  How do you define "offensive"?  What in the game is more lethal than a semi-permanent invis. loki with a high damage weapon? (answer : nothing)  Can he "press 4 to kill everything" like other frames?  Nope, can he "Press 2 and use weapons to kill everything" ... yup.  I might add, for less energy, lasts longer, is discreet (you can single out targets for death or not as you see fit) and isn't tied a single dimension of game play.  Switch teleport to isolate HVT's for easy disposal?  How is that not offensive?

 

Yes, you're doing it wrong.  Its not intended as an insult, please don't take it that way.  If you can't accept that you might have a limited experience or skill set, then you're claiming to be the best there is... it's possible that you're not the best loki there is, right?  If someone comes along as says they have a (apparently) broader skill set/experience with something than you do, why would you reject their input out of hand?

[SirAuron]

Loki is a clown(Or Jester)

Edited July 12, 2013 by SirAuron

[fatpig84]

Decoy = shorter duration, greater aggro radius but invulnerable would be nice.

Because anything that is level 83 and above downs it in a few shots.

 

Invisibility = cloak Sentinel please

 

Radial Disarm = can use a greater radius and another side effect like slowly down the enemy or something.

[Rudest]

But Loki does have an offensive power.. Invisibility.
You use decoy when you want to get away. And invisibility to kill.

More people need to consider Invisibility in an offensive light. Loki's invisibility is actually more of an offensive power than a defensive one: It's a potent melee damage multiplier. Pair with this with the right weapon.. Oh say.. The Fang.. And you become a chainsaw shaped like a man.  It can be used in conjunction with high burst ranged weapons like Vipers or a Gorgon, and ensure you can unload a clip with impunity upon whatever boss you are farming. Grab your loot. Drop a decoy. Run towards the exit.

Loki is my go-to solo frame!

I've built him for Farming boss drops and tower raids. And well...
No one can solo like Loki. No one.

That said, he also brings considerable team utility to defense missions. Stretch + Radial disarm vs. the Coprus and Grineer can cause them to behave like infested, and run towards a decoy to be efficiently killed with another player's ultimate. A Loki with his alt helmet, streamline, and energy siphon never runs out of energy.

The one and only things I would change are making decoy scale better and giving radial disarm a larger radius since it's a non-lethal ultimate. A player once suggested that it be changed from having HP to being invulnerable with an 8 second duration.I think that is a sufficient change.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Rudest

[luanle21]

loki disarm is nice and all but all it does is:

now u have ur gun *flash* now u have a corpus prova

so should have a few other useful effect like do dmg (some not asking a bunch) to actually knock the weapon and breaks then instead of it disappering in thin air (yes he a trickster but let be honest we need more from the ult) as well as stun/slow down on movement speed around 30% or so

[lautalocos]

-either a buff or removal of the decoy's health

-when switch teleporting into a mob, it'd be nice if they attacked the enemy you just switched with for a second or two, long enough for you to at least get your bearings

-and most importantly, invisibility cloaking the sentinel

THIS.

i can´t fill like a trickster until switch teleport makes enemies shoot their friends for at least some seconds.

[Miracle21]

please make it so i can shoot through Decoy . why Nyx chaos decoys can shoot through and Loki's not ? also cloak sentinel please

[Takhaos]

About the only thing Loki needs is a slight improvement to RD, such as affecting Grineer melee units and Rollers, which somebody has mentioned earlier. Another one would be to make the decoy invulnerable and intangible. It's a hologram. Oh, and Invis should cloak your sentinel.