World on Fire

[DSkycroft]

1 minute ago, row49382 said:

You brought up Oberon per your response to my comment:

I see what you are trying to do, but you can't say that WoF sucks out the fun of the game because it kills enemies before they enter the ring and not say that all damage frames do the same. It's hypocritical.

But not all damage frames have the same range or cause as much damage as Ember's WoF.

[MagPrime]

4 minutes ago, DSkycroft said:

I'm more complaining about people who go for damage builds and kill enemies before anyone else has a chance to fight them. Sure it makes missions easier,but it also can take a lot of the fun out of them. I honestly don't know why we have moved on to discussing Oberon since most of his abilities other than his fourth are useless anyway. If you want to be a healer,Trinity is a much more viable option than Oberon.

Your last sentence is a good example of how we got into Oberon lol

So, you have More of an issue of how someone chooses to mod WoF over the ability itself?  Not sure DE can do anything about that, or if they even should.  That restricts players to DE approved builds, and that really takes the fun out of the semi sand box we have now.

I mean, why stop with Ember at that point?  No more EV Trinity because that's her main use.  No more per a in his Loki, no more bubble Frost - those remove the fun and challenge from the game, dangit.

I honestly think the best solution is to make your own team, and the recruiting chat should be overhauled to make that a viable choice.

2 minutes ago, row49382 said:

You brought up Oberon per your response to my comment:

I see what you are trying to do, but you can't say that WoF sucks out the fun of the game because it kills enemies before they enter the ring and not say that all damage frames do the same. It's hypocritical.

I didn't post that?

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, DSkycroft said:

But not all damage frames have the same range or cause as much damage as Ember's WoF.

Equinox.  Frost.  Mag.  Excal.

[Kierlak]

7 minutes ago, DSkycroft said:

I'm more complaining about people who go for damage builds and kill enemies before anyone else has a chance to fight them.

 

Muh kills, dey steelin dem. Nerf a frame because kills were stolen.

[DSkycroft]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

Your last sentence is a good example of how we got into Oberon lol

So, you have More of an issue of how someone chooses to mod WoF over the ability itself?  Not sure DE can do anything about that, or if they even should.  That restricts players to DE approved builds, and that really takes the fun out of the semi sand box we have now.

I mean, why stop with Ember at that point?  No more EV Trinity because that's her main use.  No more per a in his Loki, no more bubble Frost - those remove the fun and challenge from the game, dangit.

I honestly think the best solution is to make your own team, and the recruiting chat should be overhauled to make that a viable choice.

I didn't post that?

I have said twice that they could decrease the range and increase the damage. That way,it would give other players a chance to kill enemies even if there is a person who has built their Ember to focus on damage.

[(XBOX)Deathstroke52dc]

No. NOT AT ALL. There is so much perspective coming from the majority portion of the community that doesn't participate in content above level 100. Not only does Ember's damage not scale, but the amount of crowd control she provides can be limited as well. Especially when compared to other frames. All in all, Ember's potential is actually very underwhelming and fire damage especially so. 

I am aware that Ember CAN be a bit of a kill-stealer. But first let me ask...what level enemies she does so on? 1-30? That sounds like a very limited perspective to me. You CAN in fact, outkill an ember in those levels with a AOE range-dmg Mag, Excaliber, or Rhino with little modification. Embers abilities can deal with low level cannon fodder, but in regards to universal fairness, if she becomes subject to a nerf, let it only diminish her damage BUT also increase her world on fore's status chance and duration for greater crowd control.   

[DSkycroft]

Just now, Kierlak said:

 

Muh kills, dey steelin dem. Nerf a frame because kills were stolen.

I did not say to nerf her,I simply suggested a rework of her fourth that would be fair to people on both sides of the issue.

[DSkycroft]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Deathstroke52dc said:

No. NOT AT ALL. There is so much perspective coming from the majority portion of the community that doesn't participate in content above level 100. Not only does Ember's damage not scale, but the amount of crowd control she provides can be limited as well. Especially when compared to other frames. All in all, Ember's potential is actually very underwhelming and fire damage especially so. 

I am aware that Ember CAN be a bit of a kill-stealer. But first let me ask...what level enemies she does so on? 1-30? That sounds like a very limited perspective to me. You CAN in fact, outkill an ember in those levels with a AOE range-dmg Mag, Excaliber, or Rhino with little modification. Embers abilities can deal with low level cannon fodder, but in regards to universal fairness, if she becomes subject to a nerf, let it only diminish her damage BUT also increase her world on fore's status chance and duration for greater crowd control.   

Again,I have twice suggested a rework that would make it fair for people in regular missions,as well as make her viable for higher level missions.

Edited March 15, 2017 by DSkycroft

[MagPrime]

Just now, DSkycroft said:

I have said twice that they could decrease the range and increase the damage. That way,it would give other players a chance to kill enemies even if there is a person who has built their Ember to focus on damage.

I'm aware and I responded to that.

Reducing her range though, would push her further into the "useless category because this is a horde game and you are pushed to kill as many as possible as fast as possible.

The only time you don't build for range, or try to increase it at least, is when you're focusing on a duration ability.

This wouldn't make the current Ember users happy as a middle ground change, it would infuriate them.

[Kierlak]

1 minute ago, DSkycroft said:

I did not say to nerf her,I simply suggested a rework of her fourth that would be fair to people on both sides of the issue.

 

You want to reduce her range and/or damage. That's a nerf. There's literally no way to spin that as anything other than a nerf.

[DSkycroft]

Just now, MagPrime said:

I'm aware and I responded to that.

Reducing her range though, would push her further into the "useless category because this is a horde game and you are pushed to kill as many as possible as fast as possible.

The only time you don't build for range, or try to increase it at least, is when you're focusing on a duration ability.

This wouldn't make the current Ember users happy as a middle ground change, it would infuriate them.

How would increasing her damage,which would make more useful,infuriate the Ember players?

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, DSkycroft said:

I did not say to nerf her,I simply suggested a rework of her fourth that would be fair to people on both sides of the issue.

The definition of a nerf is a change that makes an item or character less desirable.

[DSkycroft]

Just now, Kierlak said:

 

You want to reduce her range and/or damage. That's a nerf. There's literally no way to spin that as anything other than a nerf.

I said INCREASE damage. Please,at least ATTEMPT to read my responses.

[row49382]

Just now, DSkycroft said:

But not all damage frames have the same range or cause as much damage as Ember's WoF.

You are right, not all damage frames have the same range or cause as much damage as Ember's WoF. Banshee's RQ has way more range than WoF with the Augment and Saryn's Miasma has the same range but does more damage (immediately and over time) than WoF. Don't even get me started on Nidus' ridiculous damage output and range.

[DSkycroft]

Just now, MagPrime said:

The definition of a nerf is a change that makes an item or character less desirable.

AGAIN,how would an increase in damage make her LESS desirable?

[row49382]

8 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I didn't post that?

OP did, not you

Edited March 15, 2017 by row49382

[(XBOX)Deathstroke52dc]

I know hat you meant and you have a valid argument. But let's understand something here:

We are on the forums and we do not know if our input will be noticed. A nerf may be what this conversation inspires. So we need to take as much into account as possible and try to dissuade something that would put one group at a future disadvantage. Furthermore, a damage increase for Ember would almost be incapable of allowing her to be more effective in later content, as the damage drop off (especially with armor) happens due to exponential scaling.

 

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, DSkycroft said:

AGAIN,how would an increase in damage make her LESS desirable?

Because in order to get the extra damage, they have lost range. And on top of that, the type of damage Ember deals, is less effective at higher levels due to armor increases.  So at most, you've added 10 more levels to get current cap.

 How many Warframes have you played that rely on range, benefit from a range reduction?

 

1 minute ago, row49382 said:

OP did, not you

For some reason, it shows my alias on that quote.

Edited March 15, 2017 by MagPrime

[DSkycroft]

Honestly,I am done discussing this because most of you people have made it abundantly clear that you are not willing to consider an opinion other than your own.

Edited March 15, 2017 by DSkycroft

[(XBOX)Deathstroke52dc]

3 minutes ago, DSkycroft said:

AGAIN,how would an increase in damage make her LESS desirable?

It would be less desirable simply because a range decrease seriously outweighs a damage increase. Less range equals less crowd control, and damage increases drop off quickly.

[row49382]

3 minutes ago, DSkycroft said:

Honestly,I am done discussing this because you people have made it abundantly clear that you are not willing to consider an opinion other than your own.

It appears you have too. All I am doing is responding to your arguments with valid responses and rebuttals. You have yet to give me a valid response that cannot be countered or has changed my view is all.

Edited March 15, 2017 by row49382

[(XBOX)Deathstroke52dc]

3 minutes ago, DSkycroft said:

Honestly,I am done discussing this because most of you people have made it abundantly clear that you are not willing to consider an opinion other than your own.

I did consider your opinion, I understand where you are coming from, and I am sorry if I offended. But simply put, there are equivalent options to Ember (she is not in any way in her own tier) and the modification you suggest would cause major functionality issues.

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

11 minutes ago, DSkycroft said:

But not all damage frames have the same range or cause as much damage as Ember's WoF.

Saryn says hi.

Seriously though, the only way people could possibly be butt hurt about an ember stealing kills is if they're play low level content or Infested missions... which is where ember specializes. So... awesome.

They could change the ability. Make it more interactive. But any which way you look at it, If it becomes less effective than it is now, it's a nerf. The end. Whether or not it's good thing is irrelevant.

Also if ember is so darn good I dare anybody to hop into a sortie 1 eximus stronghold. Yeah. Truly OP and stealing kills with that Arsen Eximus turning those Damage numbers into zeros.

[MagPrime]

12 minutes ago, DSkycroft said:

Honestly,I am done discussing this because most of you people have made it abundantly clear that you are not willing to consider an opinion other than your own.

We have considered it and we're explaining why we believe it won't work. 

[StarCommanderVong]

1 hour ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

Are you insinuating that she needs a rework?
Because she might.

I am not, just pointing something out.