when will get something to train newbies in the dojos?

[helix.hex]

okay i think this has been or at the very least hammer into the community quite a bit: this game has a learn curve compared to a cliff. i have gotten another friend into warframe again. but the thing is he hasnt played since damage 1.0 and cause of the mechanics at the time he dropped the game and walked away. the thing is with the new mechanic i know saturday is going to hell for me as i train him through a mic. but even still with all this talk about dojo love. (or nerf if you a vet.) we still have not gotten anything for our new players to train in.

 

so DE if your reading this: make some time for a training room so us fellow tenno can make more losers.

[GDSK-NXS]

DE said they would release some kind of mission builder for clan warlords, which would make a mission available for all clan members to play. I believe it was tied with codex scans too, and if I'm not mistaken, rebecca played one orokin void mission with only manics and bursas in it to test it. When it's dropping we don't really know, but that it is in the works is a fact, so we just have to wait for them.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

The problem here, is that when the game 1st started, there was vey little to do/learn in comparison to what the game is now... it is daunting to say the least. I am a vet and tried to make another account for $h1t$/giggles and I couldn't handle it (in truth, I am also embittered with this game to a degree). The volume of things to do is enormous. The amount of resources required for everything you need are tremendous. The mechanics of the game are the easiest part. If you've ever played any fighting game, you should be fine. Where things get really complex, are the weapon/frame builds and understanding the damage systems (which you also need to take down bosses). The best learning tool, at the moment, are the youtubers (only the good ones, though). After that, it's just grind till you can't see straight then grind some more... then grind some more till your heart gives out. That's basically it. Once you get the hang of it all you are good, but admittedly, that does take a very long while.

Edited March 17, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[helix.hex]

1 hour ago, GDSK-NXS said:

DE said they would release some kind of mission builder for clan warlords, which would make a mission available for all clan members to play. I believe it was tied with codex scans too, and if I'm not mistaken, rebecca played one orokin void mission with only manics and bursas in it to test it. When it's dropping we don't really know, but that it is in the works is a fact, so we just have to wait for them.

The thing is a mission builder isn't A training room. It's a mission builder. You get an introduction and that's it and if you want to get used to the mechanics you have to grind for that.

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

12 minutes ago, helix.hex said:

The thing is a mission builder isn't A training room. It's a mission builder. You get an introduction and that's it and if you want to get used to the mechanics you have to grind for that.

What up helix.hex? You're right, it isn't the same thing and it will lead to clans geared towards new users before they can graduate to a more experienced environment. It's fine if you're recruiting friends, but as a whole, the newbies are left in the dark.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

The problem here, is that when the game 1st started, there was vey little to do/learn in comparison to what the game is now... it is daunting to say the least. I am a vet and tried to make another account for $h1t$/giggles and I couldn't handle it (in truth, I am also embittered with this game to a degree). The volume of things to do is enormous. The amount of resources required for everything you need are tremendous. The mechanics of the game are the easiest part. If you've ever played any fighting game, you should be fine. Where things get really complex, are the weapon/frame builds and understanding the damage systems (which you also need to take down bosses). The best learning tool, at the moment, are the youtubers (only the good ones, though). After that, it's just grind till you can't see straight then grind some more... then grind some more till your heart gives out. That's basically it. Once you get the hang of it all you are good, but admittedly, that does take a very long while.

With all that there is to learn, there aren't enough things to explain how the game works to less technical players. People who have played old school RPGs all the way up to modern shooters/ sandbox games should be fine. But you are right, there aren't any real tutorial, and you see new players who don't even understand abilities or mods...

[helix.hex]

Not much. Getting ready to train our new recruit 

[GDSK-NXS]

3 hours ago, helix.hex said:

The thing is a mission builder isn't A training room. It's a mission builder. You get an introduction and that's it and if you want to get used to the mechanics you have to grind for that.

As a warlord, I would expect you to be able to make a mission with a level and enemy composition that makes whoever you're training challenge the way they play to learn upon suggestions, or just finding out the best way to tackle said challenges with whatever they have. Depending on what a player lacks, or the specific things they need to learn, it wouldn't be too hard to make missions that focus on one point or another. It may not be the focus DE had in mind but it sure works, if the one behind it knows what they are doing.

Don't know what a "training room" would have tho, you could help them farm the simulacrum key, that's the closes thing to training there is right now.

[helix.hex]

6 hours ago, GDSK-NXS said:

As a warlord, I would expect you to be able to make a mission with a level and enemy composition that makes whoever you're training challenge the way they play to learn upon suggestions, or just finding out the best way to tackle said challenges with whatever they have. Depending on what a player lacks, or the specific things they need to learn, it wouldn't be too hard to make missions that focus on one point or another. It may not be the focus DE had in mind but it sure works, if the one behind it knows what they are doing.

Don't know what a "training room" would have tho, you could help them farm the simulacrum key, that's the closes thing to training there is right now.

Well, for starters grinding for a key to simulacrum would take weeks for a new player. Weeks. Second it would be faster and more effective if the new players could go on their own time and train without grind. 

Grinding for resources? Sure. Grinding for warframes? Sure. But to grind just to learn how to play a !@#$ing game? No. De made this problem and it should have been put to rest and as a warlord you should ashamed to even considered just throwing a new player to the wolves like this is dark souls. 

[Rivetear]

2 hours ago, helix.hex said:

 

Grinding for resources? Sure. Grinding for warframes? Sure. But to grind just to learn how to play a !@#$ing game? No. De made this problem and it should have been put to rest and as a warlord you should ashamed to even considered just throwing a new player to the wolves like this is dark souls. 

While there is a learning curve I don't belive it's so big that people are "thrown to the wolves". In my experience , people who i've taught to play have only really had trouble with modding or movement (in the start). Teaching someone what to mod is pretty easy from just a VC and a couple of screenshots and movement can be learned through the clan obstacle course. The biggest part of the learning curve that i've seen is the types of damage/status that the game includes and how it interacts with enemies.

[SilvaDreams]

17 minutes ago, CryoElite said:

While there is a learning curve I don't belive it's so big that people are "thrown to the wolves". In my experience , people who i've taught to play have only really had trouble with modding or movement (in the start). Teaching someone what to mod is pretty easy from just a VC and a couple of screenshots and movement can be learned through the clan obstacle course. The biggest part of the learning curve that i've seen is the types of damage/status that the game includes and how it interacts with enemies.

Same, the only issue I see is when friends/clan mates power rush them to get them endgame instead of giving them a few weeks to get into the game and feel everything else.

It's why Draco was considered a plague and the term "Draco baby" came to be.

 

Now as far as training goes... Running the obstacle course will help get them use to the movement system though nothing short of playing the missions

[XxSTOZZYxX]

As a new player (like less than a week new) I don't feel like the learning curve for playing the game is very bad. In fact, it's fairly straight forward if you've been gaming a while already and tried various genres up to now.

The mission mechanics and combat are fairly straight forward. Especially if people are coming from other shooters (specifically Destiny players will be right at home) it's all right there... pew pew, objective, follow waypoints, win.

The problem comes when you start getting into progression. The "leveling up" system is terrible, imo, and the necessary grind they softball right in the beginning is daunting at best. And the blueprint system personally is the biggest turn off just starting out. 1-3 days waiting after X amount of time farming for materials just to use a new gun/warframe, then also having to figure out the mod system as far as keeping current while progressing so you don't hit a wall and basically halt advancement through the planetary system (early on, there's A LOT of carries, too... which really skews the difficulty).

I think up to mercury or mars i just kinda flew through, then i needed to start investing time in google to figure out enemy weaknesses, good farming missions, progression paths and builds, etc.

I feel like up to that point, you already have a solid feel if the game is for you or not, and if you can tolerate the design outside of combat. After that google is always my go to anyway cause player guides trump 90% of anything in-game i've seen in the past, and i don't see how they can really make some official playable tutorial that would summarize all the great information readily available in forums.

[Ultimate_Vault_Hunter]

12 hours ago, helix.hex said:

Well, for starters grinding for a key to simulacrum would take weeks for a new player. Weeks. Second it would be faster and more effective if the new players could go on their own time and train without grind. 

Grinding for resources? Sure. Grinding for warframes? Sure. But to grind just to learn how to play a !@#$ing game? No. De made this problem and it should have been put to rest and as a warlord you should ashamed to even considered just throwing a new player to the wolves like this is dark souls. 

Some tutorial missions certainly wouldn't hurt. Especially specific for the starter frame they pick. A lot of new players pick Mag, which is a wonderful Frame, but in the hands of someone who doesn't understand the damage system or hasn't gotten a feel for how the abilities work together is just sad sometimes. When you see a newbie with the MK1-Paris standing still getting rushed by enemies with Mag, it's hard to explain to them in that moment what they need to do. Granted, someone who's been here for more than a few weeks will look at Mag's abilities and stats, and already have their playstyle at least roughly planned out. Games these days hand everyone everything, and it's not a bad idea for the game to teach the mechanics in a way that allow the players to form their own style based on what they are playing.

[GDSK-NXS]

13 hours ago, helix.hex said:

Well, for starters grinding for a key to simulacrum would take weeks for a new player. Weeks. Second it would be faster and more effective if the new players could go on their own time and train without grind. 

Grinding for resources? Sure. Grinding for warframes? Sure. But to grind just to learn how to play a !@#$ing game? No. De made this problem and it should have been put to rest and as a warlord you should ashamed to even considered just throwing a new player to the wolves like this is dark souls. 

Didn't say the simulacrum was the best option, I said it was there, and is open to players who want it. Also, "grinding" can't apply to "learning" because you get information even if you DON'T play the game (WIKI). Also what? First of all, new players aren't "thrown into the wolves" unless you carry them to level 30-40 missions, which NO ONE would unless it is an alert, in which case you basically save them time, and second of all, I consider that players should learn on their own this game, mostly because a good chunk of players I have seen were carried and never fully learned to play alone, which hinders their progress. Not a single player who left my dojo (that reached MR4 at least) ever needed my help, besides questions about damage, because I encouraged them to try first, and then try even harder if they failed, because that's what this game is about. I can't deny that there are slow players, and there are bad "teachers", but the game has become easier and easier for new players to learn, I remember the first time in this game, was basically "thrown into the wolves" because the event had enemies level 25 and I had level 0 gear.

11 hours ago, CryoElite said:

While there is a learning curve I don't belive it's so big that people are "thrown to the wolves". In my experience , people who i've taught to play have only really had trouble with modding or movement (in the start). Teaching someone what to mod is pretty easy from just a VC and a couple of screenshots and movement can be learned through the clan obstacle course. The biggest part of the learning curve that i've seen is the types of damage/status that the game includes and how it interacts with enemies.

Usually, learning damage 2.0 is easier if you tell them the basics and then tell them to scan whenever it is possible, alternative: redirect them to the damage 2.0 wiki. Most players I have seen that have had a hard time with the game (as I have a "training" dojo usually full of new players) are people who learn slow, but that doesn't mean learning is hard, it just means they lear at a different pace. I haven't seen a player finish mercury without knowing the basics for the game, since by then you fight the main factions and even get a few bossfights of experience.

[(XBOX)Spaztic Magic]

On 3/18/2017 at 5:36 AM, helix.hex said:

Well, for starters grinding for a key to simulacrum would take weeks for a new player. Weeks. Second it would be faster and more effective if the new players could go on their own time and train without grind. 

Grinding for resources? Sure. Grinding for warframes? Sure. But to grind just to learn how to play a !@#$ing game? No. De made this problem and it should have been put to rest and as a warlord you should ashamed to even considered just throwing a new player to the wolves like this is dark souls. 

While I understand your point, and actually sympathize with the spirit of it, I feel that there are already a significant source of "training" in the game as it is--at least so far as learning the basics of movement, shooting, and in-mission mechanics (let's ignore things like sabotage missions for the moment). As far as players "training" on their own time, my own experience of "training" via the grind wasn't a bad one. Why? Because I understood that, even if I was terrible and clueless as to what I was doing (and sometimes still am), I was getting some sort of return for my efforts (resources, experience points, affinity). Even if you fail a mission you get to keep your experience points (and scans, if you managed to get some). So not only was I learning the ropes on my own time, I was also getting some sort of return. The perpetual layers of "return" from this game have made it different from most for me. DE does seem to have a vested interest in letting players know that their playing the game is rewarded--somehow, some way, almost all the time.

Now, if your idea of a "training room" would also give tangible rewards such as what we get from missions and yet remove the drawback of "failure" going onto your stats, I could see validity. The thing is, those stats don't seem to amount to much, at least not in my experience (other than bragging rights, which means nothing to me, personally).

On 3/18/2017 at 7:25 PM, GDSK-NXS said:

Usually, learning damage 2.0 is easier if you tell them the basics and then tell them to scan whenever it is possible, alternative: redirect them to the damage 2.0 wiki. Most players I have seen that have had a hard time with the game (as I have a "training" dojo usually full of new players) are people who learn slow, but that doesn't mean learning is hard, it just means they lear at a different pace. I haven't seen a player finish mercury without knowing the basics for the game, since by then you fight the main factions and even get a few bossfights of experience.

Here's my problem with this though; a player should not have to go to a 3rd party interface to learn how to play a game/game mechanics. That's not user friendly. That's hours upon hours of scouring something outside of the game itself just to learn how to be viable in-game and that's just ridiculous. I'm all for hopping to a wiki if I simply can't seem to make heads or tails of what's going on or a particular strategy for an enemy. But the point is that players have to depend on the wiki and other forums just to be viable outside of the very beginning of the game (and sometimes even at the beginning). Sure, there are different learning speeds (I'm not the quickest on the uptake myself), but there really is a daunting amount going on in this game and the mechanics of it all can be off-putting without proper in-game training.

 

On 3/17/2017 at 6:01 PM, GDSK-NXS said:

DE said they would release some kind of mission builder for clan warlords, which would make a mission available for all clan members to play. I believe it was tied with codex scans too, and if I'm not mistaken, rebecca played one orokin void mission with only manics and bursas in it to test it. When it's dropping we don't really know, but that it is in the works is a fact, so we just have to wait for them.

Now this is an interesting potential. But again, is there going to be proper in-game training on how to "build a mission" or is that going to be something else that players will need to scour the wiki/forums to make sense of?

[3allvalve]

OMG YES!  A theatre room where tenno can watch a movie about what it's like to be a tenno. Add one independent transporter to the obstacle course and a dueling room...or have scaled down versions there in the theatre.

How sssweet.  Great idea my friend!