Cartire Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) The whole "Don't use it if you don't like it" thing has been debated all over the internet. It's just... I really don't know how to explain it to a lot of people, they just don't get why it bothers me or anyone else. There is a huge difference between simply not having access to something and choosing to not use something. Also, saying that balance doesn't matter in PvP is a rather... Ignorant claim. I said it does matter in PvP. It does not, I dont care what you say, does not matter in PVE. The only reason it matters to people like you, is because you want to be the best, at a game that has no real way of determining that. If the game decides to introduce PVP or even a proper leaderboard, then you can complain all you want. But for now, your issues with the balance are entirely on you. There is nothing to balance against. Edited July 17, 2013 by Cartire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chessalavakia Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Privacy Deleted Edited February 1, 2021 by Chessalavakia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasten Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) The whole "Don't use it if you don't like it" thing has been debated all over the internet. It's just... I really don't know how to explain it to a lot of people, they just don't get why it bothers me or anyone else. There is a huge difference between simply not having access to something and choosing to not use something. Also, saying that balance doesn't matter in PvP is a rather... Ignorant claim. Try an example close to home. Knife Skating and Rushing in this game. People can choose not to do it, but it still impacts everyone else in the game and causes DE to develop around it. I'm guessing most of the new blood here has no memory of the Neurvo blue stun balls the Grineer Skeers used to throw... which was put in place to try and stop Rushers. Back fired horribly. Edited July 17, 2013 by Brasten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinoAl Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I said it does matter in PvP. It does not, I dont care what you say, does not matter in PVE. The only reason it matters to people like you, is because you want to be the best, at a game that has no real way of determining that. If the game decides to introduce PVP or even a proper leaderboard, then you can complain all you want. But for now, your issues with the balance are entirely on you. There is nothing to balance against. Would any single-player game in history have been as good if it had a feature that made it trivially easy? A game doesn't need to have PvP to require balance. Balance is necessary for any good game, whether it's single player, multiplayer, pvp, or co-op Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenesse Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I liked that it was a nerf instead of a stupidly massive buff. I liked that it made people have to make sacrifices in order to use the power of artifacts. That or forma even harder, naturally. I liked that, along with buffing artifacts that suck, they also "forced" certain warframes to use mods that are hated by the community, to fit the theme. Variety is good, people. This game has always been too easy. Now people are free to gleefully blitz through even more content by fitting tanky stuff onto the same setup that uses power-enhancing stuff. That's just my opinion. The new way is okay too. I just liked when it was a nerf instead of a buff. I also whine about people now having absolutely no reason not to bring 4x Energy Siphon just like they did before, or 3x Energy Siphon and one Enemy Radar or Infested Impedance, but that's an issue with mods being unbalanced, not with the aura system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAuron Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 How is that at all relevant? Those are people abstaining from using a convenience feature in a single player game for Roleplaying and immersion reasons. The Devs of those games don't balance around that. They have the strong urge to resist like those here who can perhaps resist using aura points for whichever reason they don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasten Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Actually I got a better one. What is a feature of this game that people could choose not to use but is floating above virtually everyone's head? ==== They have the strong urge to resist like those here who can perhaps resist using aura points for whichever reason they don't like it. Like the way people 'resist' using Sentinels. :P That's a free auto gun and shield battery. Edited July 17, 2013 by Brasten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudPies Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I hate how other people play the game. Nerf everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartire Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Would any single-player game in history have been as good if it had a feature that made it trivially easy? A game doesn't need to have PvP to require balance. Balance is necessary for any good game, whether it's single player, multiplayer, pvp, or co-op Your just not getting it. This game has nothing to balance against. Too easy for you right now with the extra mods? Do endless defense on pluto. Can you go on forever? no. Is that getting to repetitive? Then welcome to the realities of every single RNG based game. Eventually, you collect the best of everything and you reach the end game, or lack there of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulgazer Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 could somebody please justify the balance behind this? Please notice: - no forma - no potato - all but 1 maxed mod pertinent to his role - with one more player with maxed energy syphon, he can sustain this indefinitely. - EDIT: oh yeah, AND HE'S RANK 0 Oh god, without this OP update, I might actually have to run Kappa a couple times before I can reproduce this. I mean, its not like Vauban has natural polarity slots that work perfectly with the given abilities or anything... Also, Bastille lasts for 19.5 seconds with cont. maxed. It costs 52 to cast Bastille. 19.5 x 2.4 energy a second is only 46.8 seconds, so you do actually have to wait. That's with 4 people, with 2, you only get 1.2 energy a second, 23.4 energy. It would take a 44 seconds before the ability recharged, and by then, you really should have helped yourself to one of the power balls that is likely to be lying around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinoAl Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Your just not getting it. This game has nothing to balance against. Too easy for you right now with the extra mods? Do endless defense on pluto. Can you go on forever? no. Is that getting to repetitive? Then welcome to the realities of every single RNG based game. Eventually, you collect the best of everything and you reach the end game, or lack there of. No, you're just not getting it, and you completely ignored my statement. Balance matters in PVE games. Saying balance doesn't matter in PVE is simply untrue, and any successful developer would tell you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luneth Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Stop it, theres already a huge thread on this on the same page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulgazer Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 The game's starting to have a habbit of making things hard to get then making them perhaps too easy. The player would be better served if we had less choices but instead had choices that actually mattered. While I technically choose every slot on my frames most of the choices are forced not personal. Every Frame I have that is doing hard content is running Redirection and Streamline. The only mod I use on my ember that is diffrent is Enemy Radar everything else is a choice that is mostly forced and it's similar on most of my frames. These three points are contradictory. You express that the game is too easy, and then talk about how you feel forced to pick certain mods to make it through. You say that we need fewer choices, and then claim you don't get enough choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartire Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 No, you're just not getting it, and you completely ignored my statement. Balance matters in PVE games. Saying balance doesn't matter in PVE is simply untrue, and any successful developer would tell you that. I didnt ignore you statement. You really are not getting it. What are you balancing against? Tell me that please. What are you balancing in a PVE? What exactly are you balancing? What you are talking about is difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luneth Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 This thread is stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinoAl Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I didnt ignore you statement. You really are not getting it. What are you balancing against? Tell me that please. What are you balancing in a PVE? What exactly are you balancing? What you are talking about is difficulty. Difficulty = Balance. You are balancing in comparison to other players, against the enemies you are fighting, and against your teammates. If balance didn't matter, then DE could implement a 10,000 base damage shotgun with rapid fire and a clip of 5000, and it would be a non-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasten Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 This game has nothing to balance against. 120 Mod Energy Formaed/Potatoed Ogris vs Enemy HP/Armor. Oh wait, the Ogris isn't balanced and kicked enemy stat 'balancing' into odd places. You can't play the infinite NPC stat boost game. It doesn't work in the long run. Eventually you just have Godline Guns vs Godlike NPC-Bulletspunges. And people bringing their godlike gear down into ungodlike zones and just face melting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceBlood Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Please stop complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS- Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 However we do have leaderboards Wait so you think 14 energy points on your warframe is going to get YOU to the leader boards? Especially when EVERY FREAKING BODY has the same advantage? NO spamming endless defense missions killing hundreds of enemies in the least amount of time per mission will get you to the leader boards. I spammed a torid shooting at the two pathways leading to the pod while standing on the two crates at xini for about 10 waves it was the most boring thing ever and not really even playing this game. Killed 400 or so enemies. I did this a few rounds of that made me jump from a leaderboard ranking of 7000 to 5800 in just 6-7 missions. (Yah yah my global ranking is nothing to brag about.). But yeah that's complete BS and certainly not an indicator of true skill at all in this game. Look I haven't replied to all of these QQs but seriously why are folks like you so damned hellbent on getting this thing shot down even before it has taken off? It's like there some sort of vendetta here. Borderline twilight zone. Have you seen how tired the devs look? Yeah they were excited to get U9 out. Yeah Steve made an announcement he couldn't back out on Friday about releasing it. Yeah the team worked late Friday night to put it out, yeah they also worked late last night to fix whatever they could for us. Give them a chance to look at the data, give yourselves a chance to play the game and feel things out yourselves and come back with real gameplay related feedback rather than your theoretical/prejudgemental words. Stop with this seesaw buff nerf stuff trying to see if the devs do things your way and QQ when they don't. Play for a few days. Then come back with constructive feedback on how xyz warframe tore it up against xyz level enemy using xyz power,etc. Orthusaku. This response is not aimed particularly at you. When I first started posting about this it was a couple hours after the fix. I see that you guys are still arguing to see who's way is better than what rather than playing the game. I for one played for a few hours since to check it out. Let's play the game!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyHeroPatrickSwayze Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I want OP to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAuron Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 This thread is stupid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8c8tDRklLc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scanation Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) I want see how many mode you can fit into a warframe that is not Potatoed and Formaéd. And if you fix all the slots, with full level mods. Then, I agree with you. Otherwise, no... Edited July 17, 2013 by Scanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartire Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Difficulty = Balance. You are balancing in comparison to other players, against the enemies you are fighting, and against your teammates. If balance didn't matter, then DE could implement a 10,000 base damage shotgun with rapid fire and a clip of 5000, and it would be a non-issue. They could do that. Wouldnt be imbalanced. It would just be a weapon they created. 120 Mod Energy Formaed/Potatoed Ogris vs Enemy HP/Armor. Oh wait, the Ogris isn't balanced and kicked enemy stat 'balancing' into odd places. You can't play the infinite NPC stat boost game. It doesn't work in the long run. Eventually you just have Godline Guns vs Godlike NPC-Bulletspunges. And people bringing their godlike gear down into ungodlike zones and just face melting. And people dont do that now? Pretty sure when your potatoed out and forma'd out, you melt faced in all the low levels now. Once again, this is not balance, this is difficulty. And unfortunately, what you said is how this all works. The harder the difficulty gets (godlike enemies) the better the weapons need to be. Its like saying they need to balance mercury to be more in line with pluto. If you have better gear (or like the topic, more mods), then you should use them to fight harder enemies. Thats the entire basis of all these games. Fight harder things, find better gear, to fight harder things. If your looking for anything else, you came to the wrong place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyte Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) It was never difficult to start with. And Nightmare mode is a joke, a complete and utter joke. All signs point to you're a @(*()$ liar. And by "signs" I mean "everyone else I've talked to". Then again, they're all well-adjusted people with lives and schedules to keep and therefore don't have 5x forma frames and maxed mods and potatoes up the wazoo. Maybe it is too easy to the basement dwellers. Allow me to suggest a game for you. It's called Dwarf Fortress. Make sure to start in the harder modes, normal might be too easy for you. Edited July 17, 2013 by Kyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katakuna Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I hate masochists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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