Aura System Discussion 9.1.4 Thread Merger

[-Nerf-Herder-]

Why is the minority always the loudest?

What's it to you anyway? Who cares if someone buffs out thier frame, how is that affecting you? How is it annoying you? How has it anything to do with you?

 

It's my game, I'll play it the way I see fit, I'll use the weapons i want to use, i'll use the mods i want to use and i'll spend my mods points on what i want to equip.

 

People were complaining about have to buy potato's DE introduces a system in were you can now buff your frame at no cost..... but then they complain?

 

Damned if you do Damned if you don't.

Edited July 17, 2013 by bmason

[fyooze]

Good for you OP.

Now return to your play crib.

[BinoAl]

They could do that.  Wouldnt be imbalanced.  It would just be a weapon they created. 

Now this is where I stop responding to you. That is literally the worst statement I've ever heard, in relation to game design.

 

Good for you OP.

Now return to your play crib.

Heh. Yup, I can agree that OP specifically either didn't speak english, or was a toddler.

[rapier9]

 

 

IMO, if DE really wants a limiter on Aura Mods I say make it based on Mastery Rank. Its a part of the game that has little use (outside Clan weapons). Using account Mastery as the Cap for Aura Mod Energy gives folks a progressive goal in gaining Mastery. Currently most Aura Mods max at 7 energy, with 6 energy  being 'on par' with pre-U9 Artifact power. Master Rank 6 is not much to ask to gain 'full power' of Aura. This also lets DE build Auras for 'long term' players with high mastery while keeping a lower end range for people progressing slower.

 

I thought about that, but I've put almost 200 hours into the game and just reached Mastery Level 5. My thoguht for this was to amke it where aura mods can only be fused by aura mods. That way you ahve to do the alert missions and get the mods to upgrade it. It doesnt change the effect (which is what everyone likes about it), but it does make it to where it requires an investment from the player and it's not just extra mod slots + awesome bonus for free. 

[Cartire]

Now this is where I stop responding to you. That is literally the worst statement I've ever heard, in relation to game design.

 

Heh. Yup, I can agree that OP specifically either didn't speak english, or was a toddler.

 

Its not stupid.  I said that cause your argument was stupid.  They didnt create a single gun that can do that.  They gave every warframe 14 more mods.  So everyone is still technically the same.  So no one is imbalanced.  There are still hard enemies to fight. 

[reXXer]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with a strong opinion of the recent Aura buff. I'll try to put it a bit more mildly though.

 

I've spent hours of my life and hard earned Forma not only re-leveling but also planning builds for warframes that I like. I'm the kind of guy that really likes the warframe abilities, more so than the weapons, so that's where I've put my focus so far. The investment isn't huge, and I had fun with it, because I wouldn't have bothered forma-ing warframes I don't like to begin with. Even completely disregarding those wasted hours upon hours of loving work and saying that this is Beta, subject to major change, there is still something that really irks me.

 

A fully planned out and forma executed warframe was a victory. Not only was it a victory, but it was my victory. I got those forma, I made the plan, I committed to the plan and I executed the re-leveling process over and over again. Now... my plans could have been in some cases executed with no forma in the frame whatsoever. A total newbie could have done it, just slap a reactor on the frame and presto. I feel my efforts... lessened and devalued in a decidedly non satisfying way. And for what?!

[Triskelon]

No, it isn't. This is insane, we're just stretching the very limits of how far DE can over-buff us to the point of insanity. We're actually being rewarded for equpping already insanely powerful auras, by then ALSO being allowed to equip additional mods? I can't even fathom how DE thought this was a reasonable or even slightly considered change.

Before update Aura's were artifacts, and didn't take up any space.

Then update Artifacts become "Auras" and took up space.  Pretty much requiring everyone who has already maxed out their capacity and content with their build to Forma just for a very tiny buff.

Patch had them increase instead of decreasing/using up mod capacity.  So now they're actually useful for more than a tiny buff, that hardly did anything.

 

and "insanely powerful auras"  ? lolwut?

 

Game was to easy before U9, then became not hard, but more of a challenge.  Tbh with this change the game is back to where it used to be before U9 as in difficulty.  (unless running T3 Def, or going past wave 15 on Outter term)

[CrystalRibbon]

Please read these quoted replies from DE_Steve as to why then you could stop complaining, most people are happy now with the change.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/81068-hotfix-914/page-17#entry884706

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/80898-update-9-next-steps/page-16

Edited July 17, 2013 by CrystalRibbon

[Celix]

Well first of all, you would already probably have a high rank frame while grinding out that max aura.

The aura bonus is just a way to help you grind out new frames easier.

 

There is still a max of 10 slots on the warframe, all this change does is allow you to skip out on formas.

[BinoAl]

Its not stupid.  I said that cause your argument was stupid.  They didnt create a single gun that can do that.  They gave every warframe 14 more mods.  So everyone is still technically the same.  So no one is imbalanced.  There are still hard enemies to fight. 

I was arguing against your belief that game balance doesn't matter in PvE. If that were true, then if DE implemented that op shotgun of opness, according to your logic, there would be no issue.

I still maintain that giving everyone 25% more mod capacity is a big deal, especially since it just takes what we can already accomplish and halves the work required, but that's not specifically what I was arguing against there.

[trasha]

could somebody please justify the balance behind this?

 

Please notice:

- no forma

- no potato

- all but 1 maxed mod pertinent to his role

- with one more player with maxed energy syphon, he can sustain this indefinitely. 

- EDIT: oh yeah, AND HE'S RANK 0

yeap, I already said it, I don't like the new hotfix-AURA system, makes the game too easy and non challanging

[Celix]

They didn't just slap that maxed out aura into your inventory.

 

Remember, you worked to max that out and its also going to take those newbies work to find the aura and then max it out as well.

[GetAtMeMods]

Yay 20 extra points. Wasted 4 forma.

[Orthusaku]

Please stop complaining.

 

Same could be said about those who complained about the nerf. :P

 

 

Please read these quoted replies from DE_Steve as to why then you could stop complaining, most people are happy now with the change.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/81068-hotfix-914/page-17#entry884706

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/80898-update-9-next-steps/page-16

 

Most people just want a faster horse

 

 

Why is the minority always the loudest?

 

 

 

O.o really than why was the nerf reversed after only one weekend of so many players *@##$ing?

 

Honestly I would rather go back to the artifact system than this OP bullS#&$.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Orthusaku

[rapier9]

Yay 20 extra points. Wasted 4 forma.

There's the thought of more mods with higher requirements in the future though. Nightmare mods cost more than regular ones, so they'll probably be more on that route so I wouldnt count the forma as wasted yet. 

[BinoAl]

There's the thought of more mods with higher requirements in the future though. Nightmare mods cost more than regular ones, so they'll probably be more on that route so I wouldnt count the forma as wasted yet. 

This I agree with a bit more than most arguments. However, if you were to fully forma your warframe, you could essentially double your mod capacity again, to 120. This means you can fill each slot with a 12 point mod. That's before the additional 14, which means you can throw a 13 slot mod in several slots in addition to the 12 point mods. I honestly can't see us ever getting to the point where that would be necessary. And, if we do get to that point, I really don't feel like mod capacity concerns should be completely thrown out the window until then

[Lfish]

I do think that the aura change is unbalanced in the current system. It shows a worrying trend towards the game becoming essentially an endless 'quest for higher numbers' with no hard choices about character development expected of players. It's that kind of endless power creep that has turned me off of Free to Play games in general. I liked the original revamped aura system (that lasted all of 2 days) quite a bit. It raised difficulty a bit, and made using the aura powers a significant trade-off, rather than a non-decision that merely exists to make more numbers go up. Now it's just another big chunk of power that relies purely on luck to acquire.

 

It's not the end of the world though, I'm sure it can be tweaked to be less of a pure power buff. I think the devs care about the balance of the game, and know that it's all a work in progress. I don't like them going in this direction though.

 

Also the argument that balance in PVE games doesn't exist is insanity. Don't listen to that person.

[Hameln]

No. If they want to add mod points beyond the reactor, they need to do it via raising the level cap for the sake of balance. I should not be able to throw an aura mod on an unranked warframe and have access to mod points. Not even reactors do that. It breaks the game and the balance.

If this current change sticks, then they will have to rebalance the entire game around it. 

Edit: read this.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130626/194933/The_Top_F2P_Monetization_Tricks.php

I got no idea what you want to say.

We currently have +14 Energy Siphon, now I propose a maximum bonus energy of 6, and it breaking the game?

You wrote a longthy post but dont even understand what the quote say, holy ****

[-Nerf-Herder-]

Honestly I would rather go back to the artifact system than this OP bullS#&$.

 

And again, how does my play affect you?

[BinoAl]

Also the argument that balance in PVE games doesn't exist is insanity. Don't listen to that person.

Thank you; The lack of people calling him out on that was a little harmful to my psyche <3

I pretty much agree with you on all counts. We should be customizing our frames for the roles we want and making choices, not throwing everything on them just because we have the ability.

[f3llyn]

I want OP to leave.

 

I like your name.

 

P.S. I think the new aura system is better.

 

P.P.S. See how my argument is really compelling and well thought out?

Edited July 17, 2013 by f3llyn

[B0AR]

Masochists don't belong on forums k.

[fishworshipper]

No, the old aura system wasn't better.

[Brasten]

And people dont do that now?  Pretty sure when your potatoed out and forma'd out, you melt faced in all the low levels now. 

 

Once again, this is not balance, this is difficulty.  And unfortunately, what you said is how this all works.  The harder the difficulty gets (godlike enemies) the better the weapons need to be. 

 

Its like saying they need to balance mercury to be more in line with pluto. 

 

If you have better gear (or like the topic, more mods), then you should use them to fight harder enemies.  Thats the entire basis of all these games.  Fight harder things, find better gear, to fight harder things.  If your looking for anything else, you came to the wrong place.

That's not difficulty that's just escalating the number values. Difficulty is closer to PvP smarter and more adaptive AI. It's just progression filler. Challenging in D&D 3.5 was always Average Party Level + 5. Really the only things that changed were the scope of things characters could handle. Goes for any progression game from JRPG through to Diablo. The formula remains the same X level + Y 'challenge' value = Z enemy stat padding. With Y as a constant. Pull the stat padding and there you find the balancing point. Why do you think WoW and other MMOs color code Mob names?

The Ogris is not balance. It outperforms all virtually all other weapons with identical stat padding (equipped mods and level). It is why people use it when they have it and want to make 'challenges' trivial.

Adding 14 energy changes the game balance. Something that wasn't there before is now there. When used (and people will use it like the Ogris) it changes the nature of fighting enemies at an assumed 'level' of stat padding. It means that DE has to either change the padding of enemies to maintain the relative 'challenge'.

The problem I foresee going forward (as in any other game that has such an opened cap increasing system) is that as that 14 energy grows to 16, 18, 20, 22, etc. DE will have to gradually bump up enemies to match the relative 'power creep' of the players to keep a 'challenge' at a given level of play.

Why do you think there was such a massive change in level ranges across the planets? That was DE 'balancing' for the changes in player power and meta.

[Vercinaigh]

This does not need to go back, nor was forma'ing your frame over and over again proper end game content. nor is it gonna be. Maybe when more and more mods come along, sure. Not to mentions weapons are so severely under slotted you got all the time in the world with them alone. Stop hyperboling a non issue.