Phunkiecrux Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) Loki isn't a very "strong" warframe, none of his abilities do damage, and are mostly situational. "Invisibility" is the only real ability that lets him do damage. That said, Loki is usually weak during Defense missions, but now he's broken. Enemies will completely ignore his Decoy, taking away the one thing he brings to the table. Loki's Decoy used to help a group get a bunch of the enemies off them and the target, but now that all the enemies ignore it completely, he has nothing to help during defense missions. If this was an implemented part of the update, it's a very bad decision choice, as now Loki is powerless during Defense missions. Please change it back. If this is an accident/bug, please fix it ASAP because Loki can't even do Defense missions now. Edited July 14, 2013 by Phunkiecrux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satwo Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Loki is REQUIRED for high level grineer defense. REQUIRED say it with me ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED for high level grineer defense. if you dont believe me, go ahead and try to take a group without him past wave 40. i would applaud you if you manage it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapinas2229 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Loki is REQUIRED for high level grineer defense. REQUIRED say it with me ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED for high level grineer defense. if you dont believe me, go ahead and try to take a group without him past wave 40. i would applaud you if you manage it. Snowglobe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Are you placing decoy where enemies can't get to/shoot? If so, there's your problem, enemies stop trying now to get to them (happened in U8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombaio Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) Loki isn't a very "strong" warframe, none of his abilities do damage, and are mostly situational. "Invisibility" is the only real ability that lets him do damage. That said, Loki is usually weak during Defense missions, but now he's broken. Enemies will completely ignore his Decoy, taking away the one thing he brings to the table. Loki's Decoy used to help a group get a bunch of the enemies off them and the target, but now that all the enemies ignore it completely, he has nothing to help during defense missions. If this was an implemented part of the update, it's a very bad decision choice, as now Loki is powerless during Defense missions. Please change it back. If this is an accident/bug, please fix it ASAP because Loki can't even do Defense missions now. Well, the Decoy does not seem to have enough agro. But other tnah that, you obviously have either next no experience with Loki or he dosn't fit your preferences, wich are obviously towords damage dealers - the weakest, most useless type in defence missions. Utility my friend, is godly there, not one time 1000 damage abilities. Edited July 14, 2013 by zombaio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satwo Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) Snowglobe? go ahead and snowglobe all you want, commanders and scorpions dont care about it. to clarify, commanders and scorpions can and will rip you out of the snowglobe. it only takes one smart commander to switch with whoever is in the globe and unload into the pod. Loki's radial disarm takes that ability away from them. Edited July 14, 2013 by Satwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 go ahead and snowglobe all you want, commanders and scorpions dont care about it. Slows them down, so just kill them first. Or bring a vauban too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZimStyle Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I agree the aggro has definitely been cut to nearly nothing. Even when you place is directly in the line of the oncoming enemies in clear access of both ranged and melee enemy attacks. This really makes the class have much less going for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHeraldXII Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 The enemies attacking the pod at all costs is a big problem and a bad design choice, yes. And yes it hurts Loki a lot. This isn't a small issue, this is a pretty big change to how defenses work, and not one for the better, at least in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phunkiecrux Posted July 14, 2013 Author Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) Well, the Decoy does not seem to have enough agro. But other tnah that, you obviously have either next no experience with Loki or he dosn't fit your preferences, wich are obviously towords damage dealers - the weakest, most useless type in defence missions. Utility my friend, is godly there, not one time 1000 damage abilities. Dude, I've had my Loki since I started Warframe, I've used his Decoy MANY MANY times during ANY mission. I know how to Loki. They BROKE Loki, his decoy no longer attracts enemies to it. They don't even stop to look at it. ZimStyle and TheHeraldXII(^) are the only persons here who knows what I'm talking about. Decoy, when placed in common decoy areas, even when placed DIRECTLY where enemies are, does not hinder their progress. I have tested this on 2 grineer defense missions, a corpus defense mission and an infested defense mission. It's all the same. DO NOT sit there and tell me I have no experience with loki, your ignorant comment is an insult. I know his utility is one of the best. (But it's broken) Are you placing decoy where enemies can't get to/shoot? If so, there's your problem, enemies stop trying now to get to them (happened in U8) I am placing the decoy where I always place them, I have even tried placing them RIGHT IN FRONT of the enemies, and they all ignore it. Loki is REQUIRED for high level grineer defense. REQUIRED say it with me ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED for high level grineer defense. if you dont believe me, go ahead and try to take a group without him past wave 40. i would applaud you if you manage it. Dude, do you have an IQ of 12? You didn't even read the damn thread did you? Loki is good on ANY defense of ANY level, well he used to, BUT NOW HE'S BROKEN, and that's why I put this thread here. Edited July 14, 2013 by Phunkiecrux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Yes, I am placing the decoy where I always place them, I have even tried placing them RIGHT IN FRONT of the enemies, and they all ignore it. AI changes then, apparently they attack the pod at all costs now, and ignore almost everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLI-fox Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Kvothe is correct. DE made a change that made all the enemies on the map prioritize the pod. It seems that they wanted to increase the difficulty somehow, but didn't realize that the enemies would actually ignore everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Dude, I've had my Loki since I started Warframe, I've used his Decoy MANY MANY times during ANY mission. I know how to Loki. They BROKE Loki, his decoy no longer attracts enemies to it. They don't even stop to look at it. ZimStyle and TheHeraldXII(^) are the only persons here who knows what I'm talking about. Decoy, when placed in common decoy areas, even when placed DIRECTLY where enemies are, does not hinder their progress. I have tested this on 2 grineer defense missions, a corpus defense mission and an infested defense mission. It's all the same. DO NOT sit there and tell me I have no experience with loki, your ignorant comment is an insult. I know his utility is one of the best. (But it's broken) I am placing the decoy where I always place them, I have even tried placing them RIGHT IN FRONT of the enemies, and they all ignore it. Dude, do you have an IQ of 12? You didn't even read the damn thread did you? Loki is good on ANY defense of ANY level, well he used to, BUT NOW HE'S BROKEN, and that's why I put this thread here. Just use him as a Radial Disarm bot ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neKroMancer Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I can say with confident that how you place your decoy is still important. If you place it somewhere inaccessible then no enemy will be drawn toward it. If you completely expose t then it'll die in a few second. U9 didn't change that and my decoy still lure about half of the wave's worth of runner, charger, and leaper toward it. My team was having fun slaughtering them en-mass while I picking Ancients from a far with my SV. Still powerful frame against 2/3 of the game and a bit weaker against Infest. Same old Loki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Kvothe is correct. DE made a change that made all the enemies on the map prioritize the pod. It seems that they wanted to increase the difficulty somehow, but didn't realize that the enemies would actually ignore everything. Hmm... I wonder if Iron Skin aggro still works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XskieS Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I've had very inconsistent results with my Decoys. Sometimes they are completely ignored and sometimes they actually aggro as before, even though I'm placing the Decoy in the same places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperAlien Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 to clarify, commanders and scorpions can and will rip you out of the snowglobe. it only takes one smart commander to switch with whoever is in the globe and unload into the pod. Loki's radial disarm takes that ability away from them. If the commander is high-leveled enough to kill the pod faster than you guys can turn around and kill him, while slowed by snow globe, I doubt the decoy would survive very long out there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verazix Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 go ahead and snowglobe all you want, commanders and scorpions dont care about it. to clarify, commanders and scorpions can and will rip you out of the snowglobe. it only takes one smart commander to switch with whoever is in the globe and unload into the pod. Loki's radial disarm takes that ability away from them. Commanders were added to the Defense table for Grineer? When did this happen? I've been to wave 50+ and don't remember seeing one (though this was a few weeks ago, but still..), and I doubt it's because we were consistently killing them too fast either. I really hope this is wrong, it'll throw a new wrench in things when we get enough time/interest in seeing how far we can go in Grineer Defense. Oh well, if it's so, it's so. Anyone aware if they can they switch you out of the globe (Scorpion is most definitely blocked by globe)? AI changes then, apparently they attack the pod at all costs now, and ignore almost everything else. Not sure I like that change. Just makes Snow Globe/Bastille even more of a must than before for Defense (though Bastille was never a "must" it'll make people lean more towards trivializing Infested with it). Let's hope it's a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grulos Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Loki is a beast. If decoy is bugged, its bad, yes. Still, his Radial Disarm is one of the most useful ults in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldorel Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I can confirm that this is at least an intermittent bug (if 80% counts as intermittent). Tested it just a little while ago on Xini, only about 10% of the enemies even slow down unless there is literally NOTHING else within 10 meters. The enemies ignore the decoy completely if a player, the pod, or anything else is within that range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentCynic Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Loki, as many others in this thread have stated, is a utility frame. He doesn't really tank, nor does he have a bunch of high-damage abilities. Breaking (or bugging, or whatever) his utility is a real kick in the face. If DE could stop fidgeting with the Rhino for a minute and pay attention to the other frames, we can hopefully get a fix for this soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) I do actually miss his old aggro before they randomly altered decoy patches ago. They shouldn't have changed it, ever. Loki didn't need to be touched unless he received a bit of a buff (disarm can be a bit buggy sometimes and should go through objects like everything else). They need to up the aggro and range or return it to its old PERFECT STATE WHICH WASN'T A PROBLEM, EVER. But that won't happen unless we kick up a bit of a storm like what happened with the Rhino. Edited July 14, 2013 by Naith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeJack Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Dude, I've had my Loki since I started Warframe, I've used his Decoy MANY MANY times during ANY mission. I know how to Loki. They BROKE Loki, his decoy no longer attracts enemies to it. They don't even stop to look at it. ZimStyle and TheHeraldXII(^) are the only persons here who knows what I'm talking about. Decoy, when placed in common decoy areas, even when placed DIRECTLY where enemies are, does not hinder their progress. I have tested this on 2 grineer defense missions, a corpus defense mission and an infested defense mission. It's all the same. DO NOT sit there and tell me I have no experience with loki, your ignorant comment is an insult. I know his utility is one of the best. (But it's broken) I am placing the decoy where I always place them, I have even tried placing them RIGHT IN FRONT of the enemies, and they all ignore it. Dude, do you have an IQ of 12? You didn't even read the damn thread did you? Loki is good on ANY defense of ANY level, well he used to, BUT NOW HE'S BROKEN, and that's why I put this thread here. Don't get mad,since you can say whatever you want about your experience with loki,but your post proves otherwise. Decoy is usable,and to be honest,it was NEVER the best skill of loki in defence.It was better in U8,yes,but it was stupidly better : Grineer : "ok,almost took down the damn cryopod!Wait?Who is that glowing guy shooting me without doing any sort of damage?I MUST DESTROY HIM BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troublechutor Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I just tested greneer defense (40-40) and put my decoy in the usual location, and they shot at it just like they should. However, with the new changes to the enemies, they destroy the decoy at long range in about 3-4 seconds, and close range it just drops as fast as you cast it. Loki might be broken in update 9 because the difficulty went through the roof (coupled with the artifact nerf) but decoy still works for what ever its good for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I just tested greneer defense (40-40) and put my decoy in the usual location, and they shot at it just like they should. However, with the new changes to the enemies, they destroy the decoy at long range in about 3-4 seconds, and close range it just drops as fast as you cast it. Loki might be broken in update 9 because the difficulty went through the roof (coupled with the artifact nerf) but decoy still works for what ever its good for now. In my opinion Decoy should be invincible but have a shorter duration. That would make it useful in any mission instead of only under lv25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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