What If We Put Aura's On Sentinels Instead

[keen]

+1 to this, totally

[Drusus]

No, some people do not like sentinels, other players don't have sentinels yet. Bad idea. You're locking an important mechanic of the game to only the people who own sentinels.

As the Aura mods are Alert drops only (last I checked.. did that change too?), are you sure that follows logically?

They are only a resource you can acquire through directed, specific means. If you don't pursue those alerts, you won't have an aura to use.

If you don't want a sentinel, you would not then have the value of a sentinel in combat, including aura functions (which really are very similar to some of the functions Sentinels have now, such as shielding you while you revive an ally). And if you don't want a sentinel, you simply wouldn't pursue those Alerts.

I'm mostly devil's advocating here being the guy who thinks the Aura system as is needs refinement but was overall a good move. I'm just saying as a compromise point I'm not sure moving it to the sentinel is that different from having typed Aura slots on a warframe in terms of restrictiveness, especially given the means of acquisition.

You may still be right, merely exploring.

[Gucky-EGT-]

I support the Aura-Slot in the Sentinel instead of the Warframe.

[Ventias]

This has likely been said before, but with the aura slot being on the sentinels you are forcing people to buy a sentinel, whether that is with plat or a whole lot of farming, to me that seems like a really bad move tbh, you should never force someone to use an item for additional features especially as the aura system is now a core part of the warframes, moving it to the sentinels makes them an essential item, and that's unfair to the people that don't want to use them.

that made no sense. As the system now, people are FORCED to use formas or get used to not being able to equip Many auras. 

 

Also so far people have said, "oh i dont want to buy a sential, so it makes this idea bad" I do not see ANY down side to acquiring a sentials besides "i dont want to", however i can name a few downsides of the CURRENT aura system. 

[DishSoap]

Please god yes, we already have to many slots for them anyway.

[Pizzapie]

I think it's good the way it is right now... I actually own all three sentinels, and I don't use any of them, because they cause too much trouble for me when I go invisible when I'm a Loki.

[Longhorns]

No, some people do not like sentinels, other players don't have sentinels yet. Bad idea. You're locking an important mechanic of the game to only the people who own sentinels. 

 

And some people do not have potatos, formas, or the room for Auras in their Warframe build.  You're locking an important mechanic of the game to only the people who can afford formas, potatos, etc. 

 

The sentinel idea makes much more sense and does flow with the "lore" of the game a bit.

 

But question, what happens when your sentinel is killed?

[Hallowieners]

As the Aura mods are Alert drops only (last I checked.. did that change too?), are you sure that follows logically?

They are only a resource you can acquire through directed, specific means. If you don't pursue those alerts, you won't have an aura to use.

If you don't want a sentinel, you would not then have the value of a sentinel in combat, including aura functions (which really are very similar to some of the functions Sentinels have now, such as shielding you while you revive an ally). And if you don't want a sentinel, you simply wouldn't pursue those Alerts.

I'm mostly devil's advocating here being the guy who thinks the Aura system as is needs refinement but was overall a good move. I'm just saying as a compromise point I'm not sure moving it to the sentinel is that different from having typed Aura slots on a warframe in terms of restrictiveness, especially given the means of acquisition.

You may still be right, merely exploring.

 

Aura mods are alerts, some new players obtain them before sentinels, like I have. The sentinel's shielding is a rare mod as well, but that's different since it does not affect the entire team constantly like auras do. And why should people be restricted from using auras just because they do not have a sentinel? What if they are doing a stealth mission, and disabled their sentinel because they only have a wyrm or dethcube, they should still be able to benefit from auras.

 

that made no sense. As the system now, people are FORCED to use formas or get used to not being able to equip Many auras. 

 

Also so far people have said, "oh i dont want to buy a sential, so it makes this idea bad" I do not see ANY down side to acquiring a sentials besides "i dont want to", however i can name a few downsides of the CURRENT aura system. 

You are not FORCED to use formas, you can sacrifice one of your mods for something that benefits the whole team. Next thing people are going to complain about is not having enough mod slots for their regular mods and ask to just have free formas. 

And Ventias, some people do not have sentinels either because they can't afford to buy the blueprint or build it, or some people do not want sentinels for other reasons such as stealth (if they lack shade), or for certain events such as the recent grineer drone event where sentinels were able to steal your drone kills.

Edited July 14, 2013 by DesuEx

[Dazko]

No, some people do not like sentinels, other players don't have sentinels yet. Bad idea. You're locking an important mechanic of the game to only the people who own sentinels. 

 

Its common thing in games to have prerequisites in order to use more powerful utilities, such as needing mastery rank to use better weapons. If you have a problem with that you have a problem with mastery rank, dojo blueprints and having to unlock planets in order to play on them.

 

And you can always just take off the weapons from your sentinel if you dont like it.

[DoMe_22_]

THIS MAN IS A GENIUS! 

[belthagor]

what happens if your sentinel dies?

[Hallowieners]

Its common thing in games to have prerequisites in order to use more powerful utilities, such as needing mastery rank to use better weapons. If you have a problem with that you have a problem with mastery rank, dojo blueprints and having to unlock planets in order to play on them.

 

And you can always just take off the weapons from your sentinel if you dont like it.

I agree, but a basic mechanic such as a team bonus should not be restricted to sentinels. That's like saying you can't use mods until rank 2. 

[DoMe_22_]

And some people do not have potatos, formas, or the room for Auras in their Warframe build.  You're locking an important mechanic of the game to only the people who can afford formas, potatos, etc. 

 

The sentinel idea makes much more sense and does flow with the "lore" of the game a bit.

 

But question, what happens when your sentinel is killed?

He gives everyone the buff, from the start of the mission. It renews every 10 minutes. If he gets killed, the buff last till the timer runs out. If he still alive when the timer runs out, you get the buff again?

[Ventias]

You are not FORCED to use formas, you can sacrifice one of your mods for something that benefits the whole team. This is the same argument with not having enough mod slots due to using maxed out mods. 

1 never used maxed out mods except original skills.

2 i dont even level some of the original skills

3 even with the left over mod points i have, due to different polarities, i cant level up any of the aura's i used to use in order to make it as equally effective as the it was in the artifact system. 

 

point: even with all the energy points i try to save, the polarities ruin it. However by putting it on sentials I see no down side besides "i dont want to" and "loki's who solo and do not want to be detected" (99% chance if you are not soloing, you will be detected)  

Edited July 14, 2013 by Ventias

[Longhorns]

I agree, but a basic mechanic such as a team bonus should not be restricted to sentinels. That's like saying you can't use mods until rank 2. 

 

It shouldn't have even been restricted to the Warframe in the first place.  I think people are upset because it now takes mod slots to get the same utility as before.  And most games ive entered, no one is using auras.  So if a rank 5-6 cant even use it, what are the chances a new player will be able to?  Sentinal is the best route imo.

[Drusus]

What if they are doing a stealth mission, and disabled their sentinel because they only have a wyrm or dethcube, they should still be able to benefit from auras.

While I completely understand the sentiment of your argument (and even generally agree with it), this comment is inconsistent reasoning with rest of your point mate.

We can't argue that it's sensible to make sacrifices in mod slot allocation and choices on the warframe then simultaneously argue that having to select options in regards to sentinels is somehow egregious. Logically, it's the same principle of opportunity costs applied in a sub component of the player's loadout, just as selecting a 'silent weapon' over a loud one for the Loki or Ash is a selection with ramifications akin to picking Deathcube versus shade.

Auras just changed the landscape pretty intently for how Team benefits work, so assessing an Aura as having a Sentinel pre-requisite doesn't to me seem that egregious, and there is a sentinel type for each case of play, be it assault, support or stealth.

Remember, I like the current model with some attention but I'm trying to be fair minded about the sentinel option. I think your overall point has merits, but this element I can't agree with as valid.

[Dazko]

what happens if your sentinel dies?

Team buff goes bye bye I would assume, it would probably add another element of gameplay having to make sure your sentinel lives.

 

 

I agree, but a basic mechanic such as a team bonus should not be restricted to sentinels. That's like saying you can't use mods until rank 2. 

This is beta, we don't even know if we should consider it a basic mechanic, you only feel like it is because you've been playing with 4 energy siphons for the last few weeks.

I used to think having 1000 shield on a loki and 300% multishot on my snipertron was normal during the days of mod trees but thats all gone.

Nothing in beta is certain.

[Drusus]

what happens if your sentinel dies?

I was thinking about that. Team benefit is lost.

That doesn't really bother me as a side effect. It certainly makes the certainty of something like Energy Siphon less dependable and therefore, perhaps a defensive or offensive choices like teh damage or health mods would be better choices.

No matter how I slice it I can't come up with a reason to use Scavenger mods. Ammo boxes negate their value entirely in my opinion as compared to any other selection option, but that problem persists from the artifacts themselves. Now, Energy or Health orb scavenger? Maybe. Frankly, I wish Rejuvenation and Energy Siphon worked in that fashion improving Orb drop rates (or in the case of Health, adding them as an option at all). Would be preferable to the steady state regeneration we have now by a country mile to my tastes (but that's purely a personal taste element perhaps, I grant).

[Drusus]

That's like saying you can't use mods until rank 2.

Desu (and I know i'm nitpicking here a bit, forgive me?) but isn't the fact you can't mod any weapon or Warframe that is unranked doing exactly what you describe?

Just a thought. :)

[Hallowieners]

1 never used maxed out mods except original skills.

2 i dont even level some of the original skills

3 even with the left over mod points i have, due to different polarities, i cant level up any of the aura's i used to use in order to make it as equally effective as the it was in the artifact system. 

 

point: even with all the energy points i try to save, the polarities ruin it. However by putting it on sentials I see no down side besides "i dont want to" and "loki's who solo and do not want to be detected" (99% chance if you are not soloing, you will be detected)  

Again, some people cannot afford sentinels. As for you not leveling your original skills, you can sacrifice one of them since they wouldn't give much benefit to yourself as an artifact would give to the team. As for your third point, since some auras got buffed, other people with max aura can have an equal or greater effect than before the artifact system. 

 

It shouldn't have even been restricted to the Warframe in the first place.  I think people are upset because it now takes mod slots to get the same utility as before.  And most games ive entered, no one is using auras.  So if a rank 5-6 cant even use it, what are the chances a new player will be able to?  Sentinal is the best route imo.

Alright, here's my argument for it not being restricted to Warframe with polarity: It discourages the use of other artifacts, if sentinels were able to equip them, I'm willing to bet most people would just go with energy siphon, making the rest useless. 

 

 

Desu (and I know i'm nitpicking here a bit, forgive me?) but isn't the fact you can't mod any weapon or Warframe that is unranked doing exactly what you describe?

Just a thought. :)

Yes, but that's easier than total mastery rank, which is what I was talking about. Total mastery rank takes much longer to level. 

This is beta, we don't even know if we should consider it a basic mechanic, you only feel like it is because you've been playing with 4 energy siphons for the last few weeks.

I used to think having 1000 shield on a loki and 300% multishot on my snipertron was normal during the days of mod trees but thats all gone.

Nothing in beta is certain.

I'm well aware that this is beta, I consider it to be a basic mechanic, and I have been playing with four energy siphons for the past few weeks. But as it stands right now, the artifacts just give a simple benefit to the team. And I think that by not putting auras on sentinels, at least new players can gain some experience on auras earlier. What to use and what to not use depending on the missions they have done. 

Edited July 14, 2013 by DesuEx

[MrHeartless]

It would maintain the status quo while solving the problem. +1

[Drusus]

Alright, here's my argument for it not being restricted to Warframe with polarity: It discourages the use of other artifacts, if sentinels were able to equip them, I'm willing to bet most people would just go with energy siphon, making the rest useless.

Completely agree with the sentiment here, though to honest, I believe we have that exact problem now regardless of where they are slotted (and certainly had that issue when they were artifacts).

Not yet convinced the other options are as compelling, but that will come out in practice I'm sure.

I'll say this; at least energy siphon as the popular option overruled the usual 'Moah damage!' mods as the clear frontrunner that usually happens? :)

[Ventias]

Again, some people cannot afford sentinels. As for you not leveling your original skills, you can sacrifice one of them since they wouldn't give much benefit to yourself as an artifact would give to the team. As for your third point, since some auras got buffed, other people with max aura can have an equal or greater effect than before the artifact system. 

some people cannot afford sentials? are you serious, the only thing that proves a challenge is saving a 100k credit and even that is not difficult.

 

and why should i sacrifice ANYTHING when putting it on sentials makes it so i dont have to sacrifice anything. So far you have not given me one reason why its bad for the auras to be on sentials (excluding what i mentioned) yet you have managed to acknowledge the bad side of having it on a warframe. 

Edited July 14, 2013 by Ventias

[Longhorns]

 

Again, some people cannot afford sentinels. As for you not leveling your original skills, you can sacrifice one of them since they wouldn't give much benefit to yourself as an artifact would give to the team. As for your third point, since some auras got buffed, other people with max aura can have an equal or greater effect than before the artifact system. 

 

Alright, here's my argument for it not being restricted to Warframe with polarity: It discourages the use of other artifacts, if sentinels were able to equip them, I'm willing to bet most people would just go with energy siphon, making the rest useless. 

 

 

Yes, but that's temporarily, unlike total mastery rank which takes much longer to level. 

 

 

 

You are assuming people already arn't using forma to use Energy Siphon in the first place. 

 

To solve your problem, DE could allow BOTH sentinals and Warframes to hold Aura slots, but only allowing the player to mod one of the two, or have one take precedence over the other.  That way people could decide from themselves where they want to put their Aura and thus ending this argument.

 

Only problem would be what polarity slots should the sentinals take, but I'm guessing most would forma them anyways.

[Winchester117]

I completely support this. I hope Rebecca sees this.