Maroo's Bazaar Outer Ring

[Almagnus1]

The post is mostly detailing NPCs that I think should appear in an expansion to Maroo's Bazaar that occupy the same space that the Syndicates and elevators current do with the Relays.  The intent is to upgrade Maroo's into a trading hub that has appeal to all players by providing services that almost any player will want to take advantage of.

The rest of the post is going to be a ton of bulleted lists, as that seems like the best way to keep things succinct.

 

Relay Changes:

• A new tile is added to the Bazaar, where there would normally be the Syndicates and Conclave tiles.
• Person to Person trading can only be done near the statue, mostly to prevent accidental and/or intentional griefing when interacting with the other services at the station.
• Acquiring the statue quest no longer requires you to visit the bazaar.
• Maroo no longer trades statues and stars for endo - that will be handled by another NPC

 

Other game changes:

• Stalker and Shadow Stalker drop tokens instead of blue prints, parts, and mods.  Tokens can also be sold from your inventory for credits.
• Grustrag 3 drops tokens instead of blue prints, parts, and mods.   Tokens can also be sold from your inventory for credits.
• Zanuka Hunter drops tokens instead of blue prints, parts, and mods.   Tokens can also be sold from your inventory for credits.

 

Outer Ring services:

• Black Market trader
  • Accepts the Stalker and Shadow Stalker tokens
  • Shadow Stalker token exchanges are hidden until player completes The Second Dream
  • Stalker Tokens can buy all blueprints and mods dropped by the Stalker.
  • Shadow Stalker Tokens can buy all Stalker gear, and all other gear dropped by the Shadow Stalker
  • Grustrag 3 Tokens can be exchanged for all parts, blueprints, and mods dropped by the Grustrag 3.
  • Zanuka Hunter tokens can be echanged for all parts, blueprints, and mods dropped by the Zanuka Hunter

 

• Resource Exchange
  • Converts any resource into Maroo Relay Currency.
    • Maroo Relay Currency can also be sold from the inventory for credits
  • Sells Nitain, Orokin Cells, Argon, Neurodes, and Neural Sensors for Maroo Relay Currency.
  • Also has the resource section of the market as platinum only trades
  • Note: Rare resources should be expensive to incentivize players to go farm the resources via missions.  This option should still exist for players that want the resource immediately.

 

• Endo Trader
  • Turns the following into Endo:
    • Ayatan Statues
    • Ayatan Stars
    • Maroo Relay Currency
    • Stalker Tokens
    • Shadow Stalker Tokens
    • Grustrag 3 Tokens
    • Zanuka Hunter Tokens

 

• Open Market Trader
  • Accepts Maroo Relay Currency
  • Has daily rotating random alert blueprints
  • Has daily rotating random alert mods (maybe auras?)
  • Has daily rotating random other stuff (Mods? Relics? blueprints?)

 

• Weapon Trader
  • Has the weapons section of the Market, using a very similar interface
  • Weapons can only be bought for credits and platinum, like they are now
  • Intended to help give the Outer Ring more character with a semi-useful NPC, but should be cut if space is an issue.

 

• Archwing Trader
  • Accepts Maroo Relay Currency
  • Trader must be behind a door that is only openable to the client after completing "The Archwing" quest.
    • Should a player glitch through the door, they should be able to walk out of the room
    • Players will see others walk into and out of the room, but will see them walk through a closed door if they haven't completed The Archwing quest.
  • Sells common and uncommon archwing mods

 

• Riven Consignment
  • NPC that runs a Riven consignment index
  • This is not an AH, but based off of real world consignment shops (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consignment )
  • Intended to solve issues where (for example) rivens are Europe with prospective buyers in North America and the current trade systems do not factor location and play times into the adds, as the NPC would be available as long as the servers were available.
  • Rivens are sold for platinum only
  • Rivens stay listed at the consignment index until they are sold, even when a player is offline.
  • A player cannot use or modify a consigned riven
  • Consigned rivens still occupy a riven slots until the riven is sold
  • Consigning a Riven costs the player a trade per day, all credit tax associated with the trade, and a Maroo Relay Currency fee.
  • Buyers will expend a trade per day and platinum to buy the riven.
  • Buyers cannot bid or make an offer on a riven.
  • A player may change their listing, but they must pay the credit taxes again, and also expend a trade per day.  A player does not need to pay the Maroo Relay Currency feed again.
  • If a listing does not sell within a certain amount of time, it will go on sale, and the seller will be informed via mail
    • A listing will sell for full price for 21 days after posting
    • After 21 days, the item will go on sale for 20% off
    • After 28 days, the item will go on clearance for 50% off
    • After 35 days, the item will go into the bargain bin at 80% off
    • After 42 days, the item will go into the dollar store and listed for 1 platinum until the Riven sells
    • Changing the listing will reset the timer.
  • Canceling a consignment will not refund any credits, trade per day, or Maroo Relay Currency
  • When a sale is completed:
    • Seller will receive mail with the platinum
    • NPC takes a 5% platinum cut (rounded down, but not less than 1).  If a player lists a riven for 1 platinum, the NPC will not take a cut.
  • Buyers should have a search interface so they can easily browse and find rivens for their desired weapon

Edited May 15, 2017 by Almagnus1

[NeithanDiniem]

29 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

• Black Market trader

Probably should include the G3 and Zanuka hunter in this as well for consistency. It would give more value to their drops outside of just credits after you obtain their weapon.

29 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

• Endo Trader

Following the above idea, would also offer Endo for the other hunter tokens, lower value compared to the stalker tokens probably.

29 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

• Weapon Trader
  • Weapons can only be sold for credits and platinum, like they are now.

Probably should alter that to say "bought" instead of sold, otherwise people would get the wrong idea.

29 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

• Archwing Trader

Doesn't really need to be said, but adding in this location it is locked out to you unless you have completed "The Archwing" might be a good idea.

29 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

• Riven Consignment
  • NPC that runs a Riven consignment index
  • Trades are done with platinum
  • Mods stay at the consignment until they are sold.
  • Consigning a Riven costs the player a trade per day, all credit tax associated with the trade, and a Maroo Relay Currency fee.
  • Buyers will expend a trade per day and platinum to buy the mod.
  • A player can change their listing, but they will be charged credit tax again, and it will also cost them a trade per day.
  • Canceling a consignment will still cost the player a trade per day, and they will not get their credit tax back
  • When a sale is completed:
    • Buyer will receive a mail with the platinum
    • NPC takes a 5% platinum cut (rounded down, but not less than 1).
    • If a player lists a mod for 1 platinum, the NPC will not take a cut.
  • Buyers should have a search interface so they can easily browse and find rivens for their desired weapon.

This is the one that is a problem. First off, its the equivalent of an auction house, which DE doesn't want. Secondly, Riven mods are stupidly high on the amount of data they take up. DE just mentioned today that in the player's account info one Riven is equal to a hundred normal mods in data size, hence why there is a 60 Riven cap limit. It would be difficult for DE to do any form of trading with them in this sense because of just how many people would use it to try and sell their Rivens. I feel a different service needs to take this one's place.

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by NeithanDiniem

[Almagnus1]

27 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Probably should include the G3 and Zanuka hunter in this as well for consistency. It would give more value to their drops outside of just credits after you obtain their weapon.

Following the above idea, would also offer Endo for the other hunter tokens, lower value compared to the stalker tokens probably.

I had completely forgotten about them >.>

27 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Probably should alter that to say "bought" instead of sold, otherwise people would get the wrong idea.

Yeah, that was a native language fail.  Unpossible I know >.>

27 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Doesn't really need to be said, but adding in this location it is locked out to you unless you have completed "The Archwing" might be a good idea.

Good point, I added verbage around that to the OP.

27 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

This is the one that is a problem. First off, its the equivalent of an auction house, which DE doesn't want. Secondly, Riven mods are stupidly high on the amount of data they take up. DE just mentioned today that in the player's account info one Riven is equal to a hundred normal mods in data size, hence why there is a 60 Riven cap limit. It would be difficult for DE to do any form of trading with them in this sense because of just how many people would use it to try and sell their Rivens. I feel a different service needs to take this one's place.

The real problem with rivens and trading is there's no good way to trade them... especially if someone is trying to do that on a channel.  For everything other than a riven, I completely agree with DE's no AH stance.  Rivens are the only exception because they are just difficult to trade, and there's no deterministic way to perfect your riven.

While I understand that there's a lot of data assocaited with rivens, I'm hoping that they have the backend for rivens built well enough that something akin to a SQL query can be executed against them... essentially allowing the player to bypass possible bandwidth issues with searching, especially if the results are paged smartly and there is no initial data to load, and you are only sending data on the rivens to the players when they are being searched upon.

The issue with rivens boils down to transmission of enough information that the player feels like they have good results, while also not sending so much information you cause the server to choke under a lot of search requests.  it's possible to do things smartly and mitigate a lot of the issues you have raised because things work fundamentally different.

[NeithanDiniem]

Just now, Almagnus1 said:

The real problem with rivens and trading is there's no good way to trade them... especially if someone is trying to do that on a channel.  For everything other than a riven, I completely agree with DE's no AH stance.  Rivens are the only exception because they are just difficult to trade, and there's no deterministic way to perfect your riven.

While I understand that there's a lot of data assocaited with rivens, I'm hoping that they have the backend for rivens built well enough that something akin to a SQL query can be executed against them... essentially allowing the player to bypass possible bandwidth issues with searching, especially if the results are paged smartly and there is no initial data to load, and you are only sending data on the rivens to the players when they are being searched upon.

The issue with rivens boils down to transmission of enough information that the player feels like they have good results, while also not sending so much information you cause the server to choke under a lot of search requests.  it's possible to do things smartly and mitigate a lot of the issues you have raised because things work fundamentally different.

We are getting the new chat filters to let players limit the chat using contain keywords, so filtering chat in trade to have rivens only, or even have specific stats with keywords in the message, would eliminate the problem you listed in your first paragraph there.

[Almagnus1]

10 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

We are getting the new chat filters to let players limit the chat using contain keywords, so filtering chat in trade to have rivens only, or even have specific stats with keywords in the message, would eliminate the problem you listed in your first paragraph there.

That's not going to solve the issue, as many of the traders in /trade don't list prices, so you have to ask.  if that information isn't easily accessible, then the sellers will continue to charge whatever they want for the mod, which is often well over 600 platinum for the good Rivens.

And again, unless I can see the mod on mouseover, I still have to find the mod, stop the chat from scrolling, click the mod, then ping the trader to get things started.  For everything else it's fine because everything else is a known thing - whereas rivens take far more effort because nobody really knows what a riven does until you click that link and see it.

[NeithanDiniem]

Just now, Almagnus1 said:

That's not going to solve the issue, as many of the traders in /trade don't list prices, so you have to ask.  if that information isn't easily accessible, then the sellers will continue to charge whatever they want for the mod, which is often well over 600 platinum for the good Rivens.

And again, unless I can see the mod on mouseover, I still have to find the mod, stop the chat from scrolling, click the mod, then ping the trader to get things started.  For everything else it's fine because everything else is a known thing - whereas rivens take far more effort because nobody really knows what a riven does until you click that link and see it.

Traders not listing prices is the problem of the traders, not of the system. With chat filters all one would need to do is have "Riven," the weapon name it is for, and a basic rundown of the stat bonuses on the mod and anyone could use the filters to block out any sale they have no interest in. People just need to adapt to the filters with their sales pitch messages so their message can be more easily seen. Price being listed has nothing at all to do with the system since if you are in trade chat and see someone selling the mod you want, you are far more capable of talking to them because the clutter is now cut down. If they chose not to list the price, thats on them, but the system as it stands with the filters would be far more easy to use with no hit on DE's end for server issues with heavy assets. As for seeing the mod on mouse-over, you can link mods for a reason. Having the mod link in your sales pitch with the filter keywords of the stats/weapon of the mod and you are all set.

[Almagnus1]

2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Traders not listing prices is the problem of the traders, not of the system. With chat filters all one would need to do is have "Riven," the weapon name it is for, and a basic rundown of the stat bonuses on the mod and anyone could use the filters to block out any sale they have no interest in. People just need to adapt to the filters with their sales pitch messages so their message can be more easily seen. Price being listed has nothing at all to do with the system since if you are in trade chat and see someone selling the mod you want, you are far more capable of talking to them because the clutter is now cut down. If they chose not to list the price, thats on them, but the system as it stands with the filters would be far more easy to use with no hit on DE's end for server issues with heavy assets. As for seeing the mod on mouse-over, you can link mods for a reason. Having the mod link in your sales pitch with the filter keywords of the stats/weapon of the mod and you are all set.

Have you tried to buy a Riven from trade?

Have you tried linking riven mods?

There's a lot of that system that just sucks when it comes to rivens because of the randomness involved with rivens.

In truth, the entire concept of a riven mod completely fails to make the vast majority of the underused weapons shine because it is so random that it's extremely difficult to get the stat rolls needed to fix weapons that are under-performing.  The current tools to trade rivens also inadequate because it creates an artificial scarcity of rivens because so many people simply don't want to screw with them, which is really great for the sellers but a completely horrible situation for the buyers.

Being able to filter is not going to help that situation because it's not going to increase the riven supply to the point that it makes the riven prices feasible for the average player.  That's where something like a riven-only AH comes into play, because it will help create that supply, which would be a huge win for the average player and also help make rivens more appealing to the average player.

[NeithanDiniem]

3 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Have you tried to buy a Riven from trade?

Have you tried linking riven mods?

There's a lot of that system that just sucks when it comes to rivens because of the randomness involved with rivens.

In truth, the entire concept of a riven mod completely fails to make the vast majority of the underused weapons shine because it is so random that it's extremely difficult to get the stat rolls needed to fix weapons that are under-performing.  The current tools to trade rivens also inadequate because it creates an artificial scarcity of rivens because so many people simply don't want to screw with them, which is really great for the sellers but a completely horrible situation for the buyers.

Being able to filter is not going to help that situation because it's not going to increase the riven supply to the point that it makes the riven prices feasible for the average player.  That's where something like a riven-only AH comes into play, because it will help create that supply, which would be a huge win for the average player and also help make rivens more appealing to the average player.

Have you tried out the new Filters yet? No? because they aren't in the game yet. We have however seen exactly what they do and how they work, making it entirely possible to see just what effect they will have on the trade market. In this case it is a far more easily approachable trade system since people looking to buy can filter their results and those looking to sell can know that people will use filters to reduce the clutter, making your message a lot more likely to be seen by interested parties.

A riven AH will make zero more supply than filters already would. Supply is based on the sorties and the individual seeking to sell the mod, thats it. Any supply in the economy is based directly on the individuals using the trade system to get it out there as part of the supply. Filters in chat making it stupidly easy to limit what you see to only what you want to buy would make the ability to sell rivens easier, so more people would be willing to put their riven into the supply pool and sell it, exactly as you are suggesting an AH will. DE has repeatedly said they will not do an AH due to the strain it puts on the servers and it not fitting with how they want the community to go about the business of trade. It doesn't matter how much easier you feel it would make the game, they have clearly and blatantly said no.

[Almagnus1]

I'll ask again:

How much trading have you done on the trade channel?

Have you ever tried to sell a riven on the trade channel?

9 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

A riven AH will make zero more supply than filters already would. Supply is based on the sorties and the individual seeking to sell the mod, thats it. Any supply in the economy is based directly on the individuals using the trade system to get it out there as part of the supply. Filters in chat making it stupidly easy to limit what you see to only what you want to buy would make the ability to sell rivens easier, so more people would be willing to put their riven into the supply pool and sell it, exactly as you are suggesting an AH will.

What AHs do is allow for offline selling, which will effectively increase supply because more items become accessible to more players.  It also lets the seller drop something off and go do something else instead of spending a lot of time working the chat channel.  If I'm not putting a message into chat as often as I am allowed to, I am potentially missing out on a sale especially if I'm selling a nice item like a riven.

That's not how I like spending my time in Warframe because it's entirely possible to go a night of spamming and not get a single bite - making me feel like I wasted the last several hours when I could have been doing something enjoyable.

9 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

DE has repeatedly said they will not do an AH due to the strain it puts on the servers and it not fitting with how they want the community to go about the business of trade. It doesn't matter how much easier you feel it would make the game, they have clearly and blatantly said no.

That's true of a general AH - which I'm not asking for.  All I want is a way to make rivens a better and more accessible experience to players, and this is one way to do it.  The only people that stand to lose are the ones that are scalping the community with 1k+ plat prices on rivens.

I mean, why should we help the rich get richer?

[NeithanDiniem]

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

I'll ask again:

How much trading have you done on the trade channel?

Have you ever tried to sell a riven on the trade channel?

Stop using the old trade chat, without filters, as your only basis for argument. That system is going the way of the dodo and will be gone shortly. We have seen what filters do, and with that can see the impact it will have.

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

What AHs do is allow for offline selling, which will effectively increase supply because more items become accessible to more players.  It also lets the seller drop something off and go do something else instead of spending a lot of time working the chat channel.  If I'm not putting a message into chat as often as I am allowed to, I am potentially missing out on a sale especially if I'm selling a nice item like a riven.

Offline trading is one of the main reasons why DE doesn't want an AH, next to the load it has on their systems which you again dont address at all. Thats the pink elephant in the room. Your last point is completely moot since with the filter system you would not have to enter your message as much as before, where you had fractions of a second to be seen. Now you need only post the message and anyone that was in the chat at the time of the post will have it with which to filter chat and see. If you are selling what they are interested in, there you go.

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

That's not how I like spending my time in Warframe because it's entirely possible to go a night of spamming and not get a single bite - making me feel like I wasted the last several hours when I could have been doing something enjoyable.

Then why have you not utilized the many already existing methods of trading passively that exist, such as forums or third party sites, which most of which have the foundation required to handle riven trading?

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

That's true of a general AH - which I'm not asking for.  All I want is a way to make rivens a better and more accessible experience to players, and this is one way to do it.  The only people that stand to lose are the ones that are scalping the community with 1k+ plat prices on rivens.

As soon as your AH idea would get even mentioned by DE, people would demand it to be applied for everything. Give an inch, they demand a mile with pitchforks and fire. Next, Rivens aren't supposed to be accessible easily, they are endgame Sortie rewards for a reason.

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

I mean, why should we help the rich get richer?

AHs only increase the ability for people to scalp the market by buying out the supply and selling higher. The rich would be getting richer anyways.

[Almagnus1]

2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Offline trading is one of the main reasons why DE doesn't want an AH,

And yet, offline trading is the way most MMO economies actually work (and eBay for that matter).  The online-only trade model is actually really bad for e-commerce.

2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

next to the load it has on their systems which you again dont address at all.

The load argument is only relevant if it's done wrong, or DE has an unaddressed performance issue in the client and/or server.  It's expected that DE should have the infrastructure to properly support Warframe and all her features.

2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Your last point is completely moot since with the filter system you would not have to enter your message as much as before, where you had fractions of a second to be seen. Now you need only post the message and anyone that was in the chat at the time of the post will have it with which to filter chat and see. If you are selling what they are interested in, there you go.

I've yet to see some new feature be a silver bullet in a game.

You still have the problem where your ad has to connect with the other person so you can sell your item - regardless what system you're using.  If that connection is never made, you're never going to make the trade.  That's the fundamental flaw with a chat based system, and why it's going to be inferior to a system that at least has an index of everything you have available offline (like what http://warframe.market/ does).

2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Then why have you not utilized the many already existing methods of trading passively that exist, such as forums or third party sites, which most of which have the foundation required to handle riven trading?

Where did I say I was not?

The official forums and https://www.reddit.com/r/wartrade/ are exceedingly time consuming because you have to navigate to each and every image in order to see what's there and http://warframe.market/ isn't well suited to revealed riven trading.  The former is really bad for riven trading because you absolutely must create a spreadsheet to get a feel for the market because you're only dealing with a single mod at a time.  That's also where the chat channel is problematic because you have to rely upon anecdotal evidence for prices rather than actually looking at something more akin to a spreadsheet and being able to more objectively evaluate the rivens.

[Almagnus1]

And by the way, The riven consignment shop this should be implemented as a consignment shop (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consignment ) and NOT as an AH.

[Almagnus1]

Quote

As soon as your AH idea would get even mentioned by DE, people would demand it to be applied for everything. Give an inch, they demand a mile with pitchforks and fire. Next, Rivens aren't supposed to be accessible easily, they are endgame Sortie rewards for a reason.

AHs only increase the ability for people to scalp the market by buying out the supply and selling higher. The rich would be getting richer anyways.

I am not creating an AH, and have updated the OP to reflect that this is not intended to be an AH, specifically with:

Quote

• Riven Consignment
   
  • Buyers cannot bid or make an offer on a riven.
     
  • If a listing does not sell within a certain amount of time, it will go on sale, and the seller will be informed via mail
    • A listing will sell for full price for 21 days after posting
    • After 21 days, the item will go on sale for 20% off
    • After 28 days, the item will go on clearance for 50% off
    • After 35 days, the item will go into the bargain bin at 80% off
    • After 42 days, the item will go into the dollar store and sell for 1 platinum until it sells
    • Changing the listing will reset the timer.

I'm going with 3 weeks as that should be more than sufficient time for anyone to sell an item (In truth, 1 weeks is still probably long enough for most items), after which point the over priced items start having a cost reduction so Riven Consignment will naturally prune out items and have a way to deal with someone listing an item with an absurdly high price (like selling a riven for 2k+ platinum).  I am going with a steep decline in price to incentivize players to at stay mindful of what they have listed.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Almagnus1

[Almagnus1]

And one more thing... the concept of a Riven Consignment Index is intended to solve the problem of "how do I get a Riven from a European player to a US player and vice versa"

Making that trade is extremely difficult - if not outright impossible with the current system.