Volt Feedback and Report

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Intro: The Volt is a bit of a touchy subject.. It's been the subject of nerfs and the situation remains very.. delicate.. Here I try to explore some of the balance issues behind it and approach it with the desire of quelling the nerf crowd while still allowing it to be fun to play as. I have about 60 hours of gametime at this point and hover around rank 600. Most of my time playing has been with the Volt. I also built and am currently leveling Mag and have played games where all that happened was Volts run in, ult and everything dies. It wasn't fun. As such, I feel like I understand both sides of the issue rather well.

I'm also a game developer for an FPS+Z, a developer for a TBS, and run a popular balance mod for an RTS so hopefully I'm not completely inept at this lol. I really try to look at balance problems objectively and unfortunately in cases like this game, I've been forced to rely on the subjective opinions of others and have said things on behalf of that. Hating that I had to use others as a crutch, I decided to do some testing to see just how powerful the Volt is and then approach balance issues surrounding the Volt more objectively. Overall, I believe I have succeeded in this, though I suppose the commenters will judge for themselves whether I was successful or not.

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Damage Calculations: I have done some calculations to try to get the exact damage dealt by him against enemies. I assume that this source is correct. https://forums.warfr...nemies-and-you/

What follows are my findings. Note that my testing is only for max level Shock and Overload and done on Pluto, Eris, and Ceres to demonstrate what happens once things are maxed. I do not use any power damage boosting mods nor do I have the Storm helmet. These results are for "stock" rank 30 Volt with maxed out Shock and Overload.

Shock: 570 electricity damage

708 on lvl 36 crewman (160%-36% so ~570): does not kill (~67%)

670 on lvl ~40 osprey (200%-80% so ~570): instagib

xxx on lvl 40 crewman: does not kill (~50%)

xxx on Ambulas/Arns Etina: minimal damage

33*Y on lvl 33 Infested Charger (did several bouts of 33 damage): does not kill (~50%)

0 on lvl 30 Infested Charger (no damage was dealt for some reason): did no damage

13*Y on lvl 33 Infested Leaper (did several bouts of 13 damage): does not kill (~40%)

0 on lvl XX Ancient Disruptor (immune to lightning damage): 0

43*Y on lvl 25 Grineer Lance (several bouts of 43 damage): does not kill (~50%)

Overload: 780 electricity damage

965 on lvl 36 crewman (160%-36% so ~780 damage): instagib

950 on lvl 38 crewman (160%-38% so ~780 damage): instagib

867 on lvl 50 crewman (160%-50% so ~790 damage): instagib

xxx on Ambulas/Arns Etina: knocks out shields and 5% of health

375*Y on 2 lvl XX Infested Runners (several bouts of 375 damage): the 3-4 bout was lethal

198 on lvl 25 Grineer Lancer (initial strike): does not kill (though follow-ups from overhead lights did kill it)

201 on lvl 25 Grineer Sawman (explosive strike): does not kill (though a second later, it was struck several other times and died)

EDIT:

Normal

40 crewman - 936

Storm Helmet (10% boost)

38 crewman - 1046

40 crewman - 1030

41 crewman - 1022

48.5% Power Strength

38 crewman - 1411

Crush: for a quick comparison, Crush does 1000 damage to what appears to be every unit

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Warframe Balance: The range of the Volt has been nerfed before (possibly in 6.0 as well, though this is unconfirmed) and though I have not felt it (I use two 50% range mods), this has led to some players complaining they don't feel like their abilities are functioning correctly anymore plus there are some times where Overload can feel worthless (Ancients and Grineer if they aren't near lights). Contrary to popular belief, it was not Overload being horrendously OP that would result in Arns Etina getting instagibbed, that was a bug with that boss's health. (Hopefully this myth has been dispelled by now, but I keep seeing it, so I figured I'd just get that in there.)

At the same time though, 4 > Corpus. Every Corpus unit save for bosses will be instagibbed by Overload. All I have to do is stack some range mods (which I've done) and as soon as I collect sufficient energy, all I have to do is press 4 to end all worries.

Honestly, I don't know what to do here. Another nerf will leave them all but worthless against non-Corpus, yet people complain incessantly about the Volt being OP as it stands. I'll discuss things more specifically below in a later section.

Skill Tree: A fun fact about the Volt's skill tree is that you are left with an interesting tradeoff where you may pick any two assuming you prioritize mod slots: Overload V3, 200 Max Power, and Speed V1. You cannot have all three according to the structure of the tree which personally I find to be a great system. This also means that unless you are willing to forego Speed and the immense utility it provides altogether, you cannot double-Overload (obviously, Power Efficiency mods alter this result). Personally, I sacrificed the max power because I couldn't stand giving up the other two. Overall, I would like to say that I am quite satisfied with the structure of the tree.

Basic Stats: while I don't have a whole lot to say here, I would like to point out just how little armor the Volt has. In my experience, a single +74 health mod was more effective at keeping me alive than two 68% armor mods, let alone the obvious bonus when dealing with toxic infested. This feels wrong to me. Now, I don't know the exact calculations for armor, but it really didn't seem to do anything to help me. Idk.. maybe it was a bug or something.. On the other hand, perhaps you guys just really really want Volts building shield to survive?

Storm Helmet Stats: it's a small change (+10% damage), but I like it. The stamina loss will hurt you a bit, but not that much. I use storm by default ever since getting it.

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Ability Balance: Overall, I would say that there is a lack of balance between the Volt's abilities.

Shock Balance: I can do more damage faster with a rank 25 Braton than I can with Shock. My Braton also could be equipped with puncture should I so desire and can actually damage Ancients. I would suggest a buff here that would allow the ability to chain between enemies on the rule that chaining "costs" range (that is to say that if you hit an enemy at max range, it cannot chain whereas one close could chain several times) at 3x the normal rate and only ever jumps to the nearest unhit target.

Let's say that the range of it is 100m. I'm sure this is incorrect, but let us assume it is. If I hit an enemy at 50m, it would then be able to chain to an enemy at maximum, 50/3 meters away. If the nearest enemy were a mere 1 meter away with another at 10 meters, that would effectively be a total "range expenditure" of 83m. Equal damage would be applied to all hit targets. In this way, the ability would be useful, even later in the game because it while it wouldn't be killing things all the time, it would at least deal damage to large amounts of nearby enemies if the player chooses to use it as such, thus reducing the damage needed by the team to destroy the group of enemies.

Speed Balance: I actually think this is more or less on the mark. I've also noticed that I can go up stairs. I think this should be left as-is.

Shield Balance: This is quite frankly too situational as it stands. For above reasons, Volts build shields if they want survivability which is great for short engagements. Literally the only times I ever use it are on Ambulas (formerly known as Arns Etina) because of its weakness to electricity damage and when I want to use Overload but can't because I don't have enough energy. Perhaps this is in part because with the fast pace of the game, you're clearing rooms in seconds and there's no benefit to sitting still for a while.

For this reason, I feel like it should be made to float in front of the player for its duration so that a player can actually use it to clear a room or run over to an ally to revive them without dying on the way. It would let players play as a shield grineer in essence which I think could be very fun as well as being useful.

Overload Balance: Hehe.. well crap... This is the whole reason I wrote this darn report and honestly, I really don't know what to do. I guess quite honestly the best thing I can think of is buff its immediate AoE damage (the lightning that shoots out of Volt, not the lights) to instagib any normal mob in the game (basically, buff it until it kills Grineer Lancers/Troopers on Ceres) but reduce the amount of lightning damage that Corpus mobs take so that they aren't instagibbed by the overhead explosive strikes unless they are hit by 2 (perhaps try to make it require 3-4 to kill a Grineer as well?) I feel like this might be the best way to deal with the ability because this way it would still be better against Corpus, but not facerolling good and would always guarantee the Volt that they would get breathing room when they press 4, regardless of faction (Ancients notwithstanding).

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Conclusion: You're free to disagree with my beliefs on balance and whatnot, but I tried to simply state the facts of the matter and approach them in a way that might help with the balance of the game. I've put a lot of time into all this and a couple revives (lucky for me, I disconnected in one so that revive didn't count) so if nothing else, I hope you'll appreciate that. I love this game and would like to see it go far and I feel like the aforementioned balance suggestions and feedback could help with that. Anyways, thank you to anyone who reads all this and a particularly large thank you to any devs that read this.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Cawkslapjones]

I don't want to disagree with what you're saying, but I do want to add that some frames are in MUCH more need of help than the Volt. The poor Ash...

Let's not mention Trinity's limited viability and Mag's inability to do much except in very specific circumstances (2,3 aren't even usable on Infestation and pull seems to really be there just to revive people in a safer manner.)

[Volt_Cruelerz]

.. I'm not disagreeing with you.. In fact, I agree with you. However, the developers don't seem to be done balancing Volt and several people in the community are still calling for nerfs, so I thought it was still relevant if for no other reason than the direct report on how much damage its abilities deal.

[DetergentPod]

From what you wrote from your test on Overload. It currently does around 780 ~ 965 to those monster that you tested it on. If it does damage to level 35 for you then I can only assume that my Volt is bugged. I used Overload on 3 Grineer level 15 - 20. Only 1 died because it was under a light. Even so the light only did 87 damage 3 times and killed it. The other took no damage despite 1 of them was within range and the run ran right pass me as I was about 1 - 2 second into the skill. I actually wouldn't mind if it truely does that much damage to mobs, but my problem with this nerf currently is it does no damage at all unless they're right under/near a light source that I didn't already blow up and even if it is under/near a light source they don't die. They live with a few HP.

[Kyuzo]

shock still does little to nothing.i don't even bother to use it anymore.

[DetergentPod]

shock still does little to nothing.i don't even bother to use it anymore.

My shock is able to 1 shot level 20 - 25 but it's my overload that does little to nothing.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

[overload damage is bugged]

I've experienced this before, but not since patch 6.

[DetergentPod]

I've experienced this before, but not since patch 6.

Does it happen sometimes or always? So far I used Overload on 4 different mission 2 - 3 times each mission and still get the same result.

[Unit562]

Volt is now SUPER squishy, does almost no damage with overload, and is slower. Pre patch I loved my volt, now I cannot wait to get out of him, throw him into a giant pit, and never ever looks at him again.

[DetergentPod]

Volt is now SUPER squishy, does almost no damage with overload, and is slower. Pre patch I loved my volt, now I cannot wait to get out of him, throw him into a giant pit, and never ever looks at him again.

Exactly what I'm doing. My 2 Warframe that I was going to stick with forever was VOLT and ASH, but now I'm going to get rid of VOLT and get ASH and NYX

[Kyuzo]

My shock is able to 1 shot level 20 - 25 but it's my overload that does little to nothing.

don't you lie to me! i have shock fully upgraded it can't 1 shot lvl 20 - 25 D:

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Perhaps it has to do with which faction you're fighting?

[Kyuzo]

Perhaps it has to do with which faction you're fighting?

i've used it on all 3 same results... i know i have since i was mat/bp farming

[DetergentPod]

don't you lie to me! i have shock fully upgraded it can't 1 shot lvl 20 - 25 D:

idk about you but I was able to I still remember using it since my Ulti is useless

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Could you perhaps do some testing and confirm this?

[Kyuzo]

Could you perhaps do some testing and confirm this?

well it kills then it doesn't kill. i don't know whats with it

[DetergentPod]

Could you perhaps do some testing and confirm this?

sadly this game has a lot of bugs so testing it might not be very accurate. Used Overload yesterday and it did damage this time but so little and can't even kill level 25 grineer only got them to about half hp. Test it on another mission, but same fraction and it did nothing. So yeah.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

:/ I feel like if nothing else, the immediate area should instagib.

[nogaems]

Shock : I don't even use it, it's significantly worse than any other #1 skill. Rhino, excal and even my Loki's #1 are far superior. (Hell Rhino and Excal's #1 are far superior to my Volt's #4 any day)

On the topic of #4, Overload:

-rank one to three show no perceptible benefit. range is not really noticable and damage feels the same

-DECEPTIVELY long animation: damage radius is INSTANTLY calculated (it seems) yet the animation is very, very long and enemies moving into the fray are UNAFFECTED

-getting knocked while channeling makes you just get back up and finish it WHICH CANNOT BE PREVENTED so you are a sitting duck

-the fact that you can be knocked while channeling is ridiculous, shiled grineers are especially good at this. A shield is not a faraday cage.

-why can anything even touch me if I'm ZZZZAPPPP?

-line of sight seems to be widly unreliable, I've had enemies just run right past their buddies being Zapped to hell with no care

-the electricity animation is deceptively large

-you can run and cast Overload, which is an awful idea because sliding out of the range of your own #4 is... wait, that doesn't matter because only the time and place of the cast is important

More whining but I'll cut Overlad short.

Electric shield

-feels nice for its cost

-enemies can walk right through it though, which is silly.

My bad advice? Make Electric Shield shock and push back enemies that cross it and in turn make overload put an Electric Shield on your skin so you can actually channel it without getting backhanded to the floor. Either make overload instant cast for what it does now (bad idea) or make it actually DO something the whole time you are stuck in the air because bullet magnetism.

I still liek him though. He has potential. Hope my whining didn't annoy anyone.

[-Basic-]

I like your way of improving electric shield. Not letting enemies pass through it would put it on par with frosts invincibility bubble.Maybe it could also be broken sooner by melee attacks though so it wouldnt be OP againt huge mobs of infested? It would take no damage from bullets though because then it'd go down too fast.

[Carcharias]

So I looked through wiki and chose volt for my next frame, should've come here first.I don't have it ranked up all the way yet and I will probably do that just for the mastery but I am already REALLY disappointed. Got the frame, got the aftermarket helmet, got shock fully leveled, got focus fully leveled. Target level 25 Grineer, press 1, target's life bar goes down maybe 1/2 way. O,O  Rinse repeat same results. I fully expected with the helmet and focus that shock would kill most single (primary) targets (non elite of course and less than level 40). What a waste. Maybe I am spoiled from slash dash. (when it works)

 

I am left with the hope that the other three skills will prove to be redeeming points because shock doesn't seem to be worth it, why would I pause, in the line of fire, and do an ability that does not kill or 100% stun the enemy? I'm just standing there getting shot while shock goes off and the damage done isn't even close to worth it.

 

I think shock should kill a primary target and reduce damage as it jumps or for sure stun a target /s.

 

I will be back to this thread as my volt experience unfolds further.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Carcharias

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Shock is a terrible ability.  Volt has some fun synergies with the energy weapons (turns them into hitscan when they go through the shield) and Overload with maxed Focus and Storm is actually quite powerful, but the problem is that it needs +40% damage to even be on par with the other ultimates in terms of damage dealt.