Ash Suggestion for new Abilities / Rework Solution

[askaninja]

In chatting about why people were frustrated with Ash's blade storm rework, I thought of some alternative abilities that would change the way he functions and keep the spirit of what Ash was. Most of the discontent was about blade storm being reduced to less than useful and effectively making it as useful as teleport. Here is my suggested ability changes to make him more lively:

[1] Shuriken - Leave unchanged

[2] Smoke Screen (improvement)

Make it do an innate 100% puncture proc to all enemies within some meters equal his equipped melee weapons base damage.

level 1, 1 meter, level 2, 2 meters, level 3 = 3 meters, etc.

[3] Teleport - Leave unchanged

[4] Blade storm Throwing Knife Barrage

Ash launches a heavy volley of throwing knives (20?) over 2 seconds in a wide body sized or slightly bigger cylinder pattern. Each dagger passes through all enemies in a straight line and causes knock back and pinning to the wall with slash damage type. Does an intense amount of damage to everything in its path. Each dagger could do 500 damage bypassing shields and armor.

 

Hopefully something different like this gets some lift. Please up-vote if you like it.

Edited June 20, 2017 by askaninja

[Nazrethim]

16 hours ago, askaninja said:

 Most of the discontent was about blade storm being reduced to less than useful and effectively making it as useful as teleport.

Indeed. An Teleport is actually more energy efficient than BS at high levels with or without augment.

16 hours ago, askaninja said:

[1] Shuriken - Leave unchanged

Shuriken has a problem though: you cannot actually aim it, if you aim at a critical tough unit (say, a Hyekka master or Napalm) chances are it will fly straight into a bunch of grunts, or, in Kuva Fortress, to the invulnerable cameras.

16 hours ago, askaninja said:

 

[2] Smoke Screen (improvement)

Make it do an innate 100% puncture proc to all enemies within some meters equal his equipped melee weapons base damage.

level 1, 1 meter, level 2, 2 meters, level 3 = 3 meters, etc.

I don't know how this improves SS in a meaningful game-changing way. And doesn't make much sense really. What are we puncturing them with?

16 hours ago, askaninja said:

[3] Teleport - Leave unchanged

Teleport has a problem in that A) Augment is near mandatory for Infested and Corrupted and whenever you want to teleport-kill a Heavy Grineer unit (as they will start a groundpunch and ignore the stagger) and B) It's really sh*tty mobility tool as it requires either entities or objects. This is not much of an issue in PvE (sans RNG not giving you anything to teleport to) but in PvP it makes Teleport useless because you can only teleport to someone who is going to jump away from you anyway or telebug inside a grate in two maps and get stuck/killed.

16 hours ago, askaninja said:

 

[4] Blade storm Throwing Knife Barrage

Ash launches a heavy volley of throwing knives (20?) over 2 seconds in a wide body sized or slightly bigger cylinder pattern. Each dagger passes through all enemies in a straight line and causes knock back and pinning to the wall with slash damage type. Does an intense amount of damage to everything in its path. Each dagger could do 500 damage bypassing shields and armor.

Seems legit. Not the best I've seen, but certainly a step up from current failstorm. I assume it uses 100 energy like every other ultimate and not 700 (or more) like current failstorm.

16 hours ago, askaninja said:

Hopefully something different like this gets some lift. Please up-vote if you like it.

+1 for trying to improve the frame. Not bad, but can be better :D

[AKKILLA]

17 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Indeed. An Teleport is actually more energy efficient than BS at high levels with or without augment.

Shuriken has a problem though: you cannot actually aim it, if you aim at a critical tough unit (say, a Hyekka master or Napalm) chances are it will fly straight into a bunch of grunts, or, in Kuva Fortress, to the invulnerable cameras.

I don't know how this improves SS in a meaningful game-changing way. And doesn't make much sense really. What are we puncturing them with?

Teleport has a problem in that A) Augment is near mandatory for Infested and Corrupted and whenever you want to teleport-kill a Heavy Grineer unit (as they will start a groundpunch and ignore the stagger) and B) It's really sh*tty mobility tool as it requires either entities or objects. This is not much of an issue in PvE (sans RNG not giving you anything to teleport to) but in PvP it makes Teleport useless because you can only teleport to someone who is going to jump away from you anyway or telebug inside a grate in two maps and get stuck/killed.

Seems legit. Not the best I've seen, but certainly a step up from current failstorm. I assume it uses 100 energy like every other ultimate and not 700 (or more) like current failstorm.

+1 for trying to improve the frame. Not bad, but can be better :D

I was gonna say the same sh1t Smoke Screen makes NO SENSE WHAT SO EVER let's be honest!? You want a good idea for Smoke Screen? Easy! 

Make it an actual Smoke Screen when casted leaves an AoE smoke cloud that stays up for the casted duration. The duration of smoke screen imo shouldn't be buffed or nerfed just implement AoE cloud and enemies who enter are choked/stunned and open to Finisher kills. This AoE should have a nice range and increase with range mods maybe. The invisibility in smoke screen should work the same, leaving the cloud shouldn't remove the invisibility. Ash doesn't need to camp inside a cloud his SS only needed an actual Crowd Control mechanic to make it team viable and this concept Synergizes PERFECTLY with his Team Augment Smoke Shadow. Instead of using it to just revive team mates or cloak an ally right near you, now you can cast it and allies can enter and receive the buff whenever. The mini map should indicate a cloud Icon so you know it's active and where, this is game changing and vital for Ash in game period. Not a mindless puncture proc, what's his smoke screen shooting out caltrops?

Edited June 21, 2017 by AKKILLA

[Nazrethim]

8 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

I was gonna say the same sh1t Smoke Screen makes NO SENSE WHAT SO EVER let's be honest!? You want a good idea for Smoke Screen? Easy! 

Make it an actual Smoke Screen when casted leaves an AoE smoke cloud that stays up for the casted duration. The duration of smoke screen imo shouldn't be buffed or nerfed just implement AoE cloud and enemies who enter are choked/stunned and open to Finisher kills. This AoE should have a nice range and increase with range mods maybe. The invisibility in smoke screen should work the same, leaving the cloud shouldn't remove the invisibility. Ash doesn't need to camp inside a cloud his SS only needed an actual Crowd Control mechanic to make it team viable and this concept Synergizes PERFECTLY with his Team Augment Smoke Shadow. Instead of using it to just revive team mates or cloak an ally right near you, now you can cast it and allies can enter and receive the buff whenever. The mini map should indicate a cloud Icon so you know it's active and where, this is game changing and vital for Ash in game period. Not a mindless puncture proc, what's his smoke screen shooting out caltrops?

Yep. Pretty much this. I think the invisibility could stay at 8s and the cloud last for 12s. The ability icon (bottom right) would display the cloud duration remaining, the invisibility itself a buff on the top right with it's own timer. Entering the cloud would be used to refresh the buff (essentially the cloud applies the invisibility buff every second for Ash inside) and Smoke Shadow just extending the cloud effects to allies.

It makes it a powerful area-denial/invisibility and offensive ability and stand out from other invisibility powers.

In Conclave the cloud could last the same 12s, but the invisibility only 4s and break on anything as it does now. Opponents who enter the cloud simply get the "fog" debuff while inside of it and for 1s after leaving it, and Tear Gas replaces the Fog by Blind and extends it to 2s outside the cloud.

[Kezriak]

Idk, trying to play Ash now, the only conclusion I can come to is that his augments are borderline necessary for his success/viability, which tells me that they should just be scrapped an made innate to his characters, obviously not as is per se (70% armor strip is pretty wild, tone it down to like 15-25% per cast, either dependant or independant of his ability strength). So heres some thoughts of what I think is best for Ash, i main characters like Oberon, Chroma, Rhino, so im biased towards Durability

Shurikens-Innate armor stripping, base stat with no power scaling, 10-20% per cast, improve their dmg and/or add level scalling for viability.

-Maybe some "Marking" systems, using Bladestorms graphics to denote which target you will teleport to, instead to mark both to yourself and allies a target to deal dmg to in return for life? Maybe a weaker version of Nova's 4 where dmg dealt triggers a shuriken shrapnel effect, causing AoE bleed? Random ideas, need more consideration.

Smoke Screen-Innate AoE invis buff for allies and Ash (ivara has this as part of her core kit with her first ability, while also retaining her own invis with prowl, so its not really a powercreep issue).

Maybe some other benefit, like hp regen, a attack dmg bonus when exiting stealth, Armor bonus when exiting stealth, guaranteed radiation procs when used to enter stealth in AoE etc. Side Note, possibly change mechanics of stealth unique to Ash, such as invis lasting for X duration of time but ending prematurely when attacking.

Fatal Teleport-Add his augment to core kit, not guarantee kill but actual dmg instead of just teleporting to target. Use Bladestorms animations for killing blows instead of melee weapons finisher animations (I find them to long and take you out of the action, so either Bladestorm animations used instead, or just speed up finisher animations 2x). Maybe a utility component like lifesteal or guaranteed bleed proc.

Bladestorm-Literally no idea what to do with this, period. Some ideas floating around in my head, none of which really are considered balanced (Miasma like ability that consumes bleeding/slash procs to do extra dmg to and around target?) Just literally anything than this anti-user friendly 4 we have no where you mark 10 targets and wait till the end of the cinematic that takes you out of the action.

Ash's Passive-Seems fine, only real issue is no values given, and only one of his current abilities actually apply a bleed, so thats something to consider and look into.

Ash's Stats-Armor is low, which isnt a issue by itself, but he has the highest hp in the game, which really confuses me. a maxed Vitality (+440% hp) brings Ash to a wopping 1110 hp with 150 armor and 375 base shields which is just odd. Either reduce hp and increase armor (stats to mirror Saryn maybe?) or maybe rework Ash with lifesteal components to capitalize upon his massive hp pool.

To me in terms of his core kit and playstyle, Ash feels less like the assassin people would think he is, and more of a shock trooper thats in the frontlines based on his skillset and stat allocation, maybe a rework to adjust and consider that. Feedback appreciated, again, dont play many caster/invis frames so my interpretation of what I would like to see with this character is more than likely biased.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Kezriak said:

Idk, trying to play Ash now, the only conclusion I can come to is that his augments are borderline necessary for his success/viability, which tells me that they should just be scrapped an made innate to his characters, obviously not as is per se (70% armor strip is pretty wild, tone it down to like 15-25% per cast, either dependant or independant of his ability strength). So heres some thoughts of what I think is best for Ash, i main characters like Oberon, Chroma, Rhino, so im biased towards Durability

You mean well.

Quote

Shurikens-Innate armor stripping, base stat with no power scaling, 10-20% per cast, improve their dmg and/or add level scalling for viability.

-Maybe some "Marking" systems, using Bladestorms graphics to denote which target you will teleport to, instead to mark both to yourself and allies a target to deal dmg to in return for life? Maybe a weaker version of Nova's 4 where dmg dealt triggers a shuriken shrapnel effect, causing AoE bleed? Random ideas, need more consideration.

Looks good. I have an alternative:

Shuriken throws a single shuriken (same damage as now) in a straight line (no tracking) with 50% armor strip and 1.5 Punch Trough, so if you aim well you get a solid skillshot. The Augment "Seeking Shuriken" simply increases the number of Shuriken to 3 (maxed) and adds the tracking part back.

Quote

Smoke Screen-Innate AoE invis buff for allies and Ash (ivara has this as part of her core kit with her first ability, while also retaining her own invis with prowl, so its not really a powercreep issue).

Maybe some other benefit, like hp regen, a attack dmg bonus when exiting stealth, Armor bonus when exiting stealth, guaranteed radiation procs when used to enter stealth in AoE etc. Side Note, possibly change mechanics of stealth unique to Ash, such as invis lasting for X duration of time but ending prematurely when attacking.

When you talked about durability, you weren't kidding.  I would prefer more offensive tool (namely a smoke cloud that opens poor souls inside it to finishers) and smoke shadow just extending the cloud's invisibility to ash. But defensive buffs are also compelling. The "invi breaks when you attack" is already a thing in Conclave, and it s*cks like you wouldn't believe, though it barely affects Ash as SS lasts only 4s there anyway, not enough time to do anything of value other than jumping away.

Also, here, read this rework by Krauserlols (@The_Sharp_Demonologist), it features a defensive smoke screen augment :3

Spoiler

 

Quote

Fatal Teleport-Add his augment to core kit, not guarantee kill but actual dmg instead of just teleporting to target. Use Bladestorms animations for killing blows instead of melee weapons finisher animations (I find them to long and take you out of the action, so either Bladestorm animations used instead, or just speed up finisher animations 2x). Maybe a utility component like lifesteal or guaranteed bleed proc.

Seems legit. I think the Augment should instead generate a second, radial, stagger finisher opening on nearby enemies when you finish Teleport's target. Like Ash teleports and stabs a dude in the eye and his friends go "holy queens what the void is that?!"

Quote

Bladestorm-Literally no idea what to do with this, period. Some ideas floating around in my head, none of which really are considered balanced (Miasma like ability that consumes bleeding/slash procs to do extra dmg to and around target?) Just literally anything than this anti-user friendly 4 we have no where you mark 10 targets and wait till the end of the cinematic that takes you out of the action.

I have one that synergizes with the whole kit, and even yours:

Stance Ultimate, Duration Based with flat 100 cost. Tap again while active to refresh, Hold for 1s to cancel. Ash uses his wristblades. Short combos (3 to 4 inputs max, unlike the other stance abilities with 7+ long combos). Basic does jack, Pause opens for finishers, RMB dashes across the battlefield piercing trough enemies. Doing Finisher on this mode causes Ash to finish off instantly nearby enemies (either a special multikill finisher or clones showing up to do a single finisher on a single enemy each). Augment Rising Storm changes from "100% combo counter duration" to "10s combo counter duration +0.25x combo increment" (basically goes from "+3s combo counter" to "+10s counter +your counter goes 1.75>2.5>3.25x instead of 1.5>2>2.5x)

Quote

Ash's Passive-Seems fine, only real issue is no values given, and only one of his current abilities actually apply a bleed, so thats something to consider and look into.

Actually 2. Shuriken and Blade Storm both apply bleeds. Though in BS case is fairly redundant.

Quote

To me in terms of his core kit and playstyle, Ash feels less like the assassin people would think he is, and more of a shock trooper thats in the frontlines based on his skillset and stat allocation, maybe a rework to adjust and consider that. Feedback appreciated, again, dont play many caster/invis frames so my interpretation of what I would like to see with this character is more than likely biased.

It's been mentioned in the past that Ash isn't a stealthy stealthy squishy ninja, rather a Warrior Ninja Skirmisher. He has ways to avoid damage, he's sneaky, he is fond of dispatching enemies quickly before they react, but if he has to fight in the open he's no slouch either.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Nazrethim

[Kezriak]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

You mean well.

Looks good. I have an alternative:

Shuriken throws a single shuriken (same damage as now) in a straight line (no tracking) with 50% armor strip and 1.5 Punch Trough, so if you aim well you get a solid skillshot. The Augment "Seeking Shuriken" simply increases the number of Shuriken to 3 (maxed) and adds the tracking part back.

When you talked about durability, you weren't kidding.  I would prefer more offensive tool (namely a smoke cloud that opens poor souls inside it to finishers) and smoke shadow just extending the cloud's invisibility to ash. But defensive buffs are also compelling. The "invi breaks when you attack" is already a thing in Conclave, and it s*cks like you wouldn't believe, though it barely affects Ash as SS lasts only 4s there anyway, not enough time to do anything of value other than jumping away.

Also, here, read this rework by Krauserlols (@The_Sharp_Demonologist), it features a defensive smoke screen augment :3

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Seems legit. I think the Augment should instead generate a second, radial, stagger finisher opening on nearby enemies when you finish Teleport's target. Like Ash teleports and stabs a dude in the eye and his friends go "holy queens what the void is that?!"

I have one that synergizes with the whole kit, and even yours:

Stance Ultimate, Duration Based with flat 100 cost. Tap again while active to refresh, Hold for 1s to cancel. Ash uses his wristblades. Short combos (3 to 4 inputs max, unlike the other stance abilities with 7+ long combos). Basic does jack, Pause opens for finishers, RMB dashes across the battlefield piercing trough enemies. Doing Finisher on this mode causes Ash to finish off instantly nearby enemies (either a special multikill finisher or clones showing up to do a single finisher on a single enemy each). Augment Rising Storm changes from "100% combo counter duration" to "10s combo counter duration +0.25x combo increment" (basically goes from "+3s combo counter" to "+10s counter +your counter goes 1.75>2.5>3.25x instead of 1.5>2>2.5x)

Actually 2. Shuriken and Blade Storm both apply bleeds. Though in BS case is fairly redundant.

It's been mentioned in the past that Ash isn't a stealthy stealthy squishy ninja, rather a Warrior Ninja Skirmisher. He has ways to avoid damage, he's sneaky, he is fond of dispatching enemies quickly before they react, but if he has to fight in the open he's no slouch either.

The only real issue I find with yours and many, many other proposed reworks, and I say this with nothing but respect, is the amount of work that would be required to go into not only building said assets from the ground up, but also the Quality Assurance testing required to into it. It's just my personal style in terms of core concepts that I'd like to see HOW they are addressed, but i think DE would be more inclined to reuse already present art, animation, sound etc. assets to make their lives a little bit easier and most importantly, streamline the whole process. 

In terms of proposed alterations you suggested, I dig em, I can definately appreciate some of them for certain, but I think why my ideas just seem offbase from yours are largely attributed to my preferred playstyle and Warframes, my first Prime was Rhino Prime way back way ,and my most played to this day next to Nidus and Chroma, so maybe I'd like to see a more durable Ash with higher armor values and more versatility (think Oberon's jack of all trades style, but wheres hes mainly a support with a mix of other roles, I'd like to see Ash primarily offensive/utility based with a mix of others). 

I dig your shuriken idea, not a fan of the augment or the 50% armor debuff, if 50% armor debuff was at like...200%+ ability strength then sure, but I think it should be lower with maybe more of a focus on straight dmg with a side of utility.Z The augment sounds okay, I was thinking taking your shuriken proposal, then simply making it so now it returns to you/go back to the origin point, thus double damage/adding some new skillplay mechanics to it. 

The reason I suggested invis breaking on attack would be more in line/compatible with a higher armor value stat allocation, but also congruent with his invis being applied to allies. Think about this, you are invis, cant use invis again until the timer runs out, and your ally needs help/is downed, you gotta wait to do anything, vs if you can break invis at will, you can do that, pop it again and aid allies at will. Maybe combine it with a radiation proc/bleed proc for a variety of playstyles, use it as a escape, a setup for a 1-2 punch, to aid allies, etc. etc.

I like the idea for your ultimate, might require a bit of work in the animation department (literally, they would need to make new animations for it if I understand what you are proposing), but it sounds like a mode vs a one and done cast ability. I was thinking maybe something in the vain of Saryn's Miasma, consuming bleeding/slash procs for aoe dmg to and around targets affected,and maybe softening them up for attacks afterwards, thus opening up to a variety of playstyles, single target nuke=strength, AoE+dmg=Range and Strength mods, Utility focus for more dmg received to target from yourself+allies?=Duration+strength, because if what I am understanding about your proposed Bladestorm is accurate, than he'd need more well rounded stats to compliment that type of ultimate ability (higher armor, some sort of lifesteal component, a % to dodge attacks or something)

All in all, not many Warframes need a full rework, a term tossed around ALOT in haste and in my opinion, incorrectly. When a frame is fine tuned, has stats altered or maybe a 4 change in terms of form but not function, thats not a rework. I'm talking full overhaul, 1 2 3 4 all vastly altered, animations overhauls/changes, core concepts of what warframe is supposed to/play, THATS a rework, and frankly not many need it (Chroma in some regards but not all) Ash is most certainly one of the few that does require it in my opinion, and frankly we both know that we're not alone in that belief due to the prevalence of Ash Rework topics (one of which was started by DE during his original Bladestorm rework over a year ago and is still going strong on 100+ pages)

Edited June 21, 2017 by Kezriak
Missed a point.

[Nazrethim]

2 minutes ago, Kezriak said:

The only real issue I find with yours and many, many other proposed reworks, and I say this with nothing but respect, is the amount of work that would be required to go into not only building said assets from the ground up, but also the Quality Assurance testing required to into it. It's just my personal style in terms of core concepts that I'd like to see HOW they are addressed, but i think DE would be more inclined to reuse already present art, animation, sound etc. assets to make their lives a little bit easier and most importantly, streamline the whole process. 

I know. I've seen many awesome reworks that are just unfeasible. Hence why I specificed (on it's own thread, not here) about the specifics. My full Ash Rework concept re-uses existing assets, from triggers to animations, that way it's easier to code and relatively easy to patch any bug. I have some game developing experience (mostly advisory and some editing and trigger setup) and I know how hard some stuff can be.

2 minutes ago, Kezriak said:

In terms of proposed alterations you suggested, I dig em, I can definately appreciate some of them for certain, but I think why my ideas just seem offbase from yours are largely attributed to my preferred playstyle and Warframes, my first Prime was Rhino Prime way back way ,and my most played to this day next to Nidus and Chroma, so maybe I'd like to see a more durable Ash with higher armor values and more versatility (think Oberon's jack of all trades style, but wheres hes mainly a support with a mix of other roles, I'd like to see Ash primarily offensive/utility based with a mix of others). 

The reason I suggested invis breaking on attack would be more in line/compatible with a higher armor value stat allocation, but also congruent with his invis being applied to allies. Think about this, you are invis, cant use invis again until the timer runs out, and your ally needs help/is downed, you gotta wait to do anything, vs if you can break invis at will, you can do that, pop it again and aid allies at will. Maybe combine it with a radiation proc/bleed proc for a variety of playstyles, use it as a escape, a setup for a 1-2 punch, to aid allies, etc. etc.

Good points, I understand and respect where you come from ^^

 I started with Excalibur, then made a beeline to Tyl Regor, got Ash and never looked back. In fact the first thing I did when I first entered the liset was look at the Codex and find the Assassin frame and it was Ash. Though instead of making the invi break on attack, the ability could just be made recastable, would solve the problem too.

2 minutes ago, Kezriak said:

I like the idea for your ultimate, might require a bit of work in the animation department (literally, they would need to make new animations for it if I understand what you are proposing), but it sounds like a mode vs a one and done cast ability. I was thinking maybe something in the vain of Saryn's Miasma, consuming bleeding/slash procs for aoe dmg to and around targets affected,and maybe softening them up for attacks afterwards, thus opening up to a variety of playstyles, single target nuke=strength, AoE+dmg=Range and Strength mods, Utility focus for more dmg received to target from yourself+allies?=Duration+strength. 

Heh, not really, I dig for the "take already existing animations from Claw, Dual Dagger and Sparring stances and cobble a wristblade+kicks Blade Storm stance" path. Not really making anything new (unless DE decides to). I go for the stance because it fulfills the objectives I set for the rework: Interactivity, not press4towin, works with any build or even on default power values, simple to use and powerful when mastered, easy to code for DE, easy to balance for Conclave, keeps the frame's theme.

Basically all the stuff I listed in this thread here:

Spoiler

 

Would be an hypocrite if I didn't :D

2 minutes ago, Kezriak said:

All in all, not many Warframes need a full rework, a term tossed around ALOT in haste and in my opinion, incorrectly. When a frame is fine tuned, has stats altered or maybe a 4 change in terms of form but not function, thats not a rework. I'm talking full overhaul, 1 2 3 4 all vastly altered, animations overhauls/changes, core concepts of what warframe is supposed to/play, THATS a rework, and frankly not many need it (Chroma in some regards but not all) Ash is most certainly one of the few that does require it in my opinion, and frankly we both know that we're not alone in that belief due to the prevalence of Ash Rework topics (one of which was started by DE during his original Bladestorm rework over a year ago and is still going strong on 100+ pages)

Indeed. We don't need more buffs, nerfs nor tweaks, we need an actual rework.

It was nice to have a civil and respectful chat, but it's getting late for my dancing lessons (I'm on 3 coreos! :D) and I won't be back for a few hours. Take care :3

[Kezriak]

10 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

I know. I've seen many awesome reworks that are just unfeasible. Hence why I specificed (on it's own thread, not here) about the specifics. My full Ash Rework concept re-uses existing assets, from triggers to animations, that way it's easier to code and relatively easy to patch any bug. I have some game developing experience (mostly advisory and some editing and trigger setup) and I know how hard some stuff can be.

Good points, I understand and respect where you come from ^^

 I started with Excalibur, then made a beeline to Tyl Regor, got Ash and never looked back. In fact the first thing I did when I first entered the liset was look at the Codex and find the Assassin frame and it was Ash. Though instead of making the invi break on attack, the ability could just be made recastable, would solve the problem too.

Heh, not really, I dig for the "take already existing animations from Claw, Dual Dagger and Sparring stances and cobble a wristblade+kicks Blade Storm stance" path. Not really making anything new (unless DE decides to). I go for the stance because it fulfills the objectives I set for the rework: Interactivity, not press4towin, works with any build or even on default power values, simple to use and powerful when mastered, easy to code for DE, easy to balance for Conclave, keeps the frame's theme.

Basically all the stuff I listed in this thread here:

  Hide contents

 

Would be an hypocrite if I didn't :D

Indeed. We don't need more buffs, nerfs nor tweaks, we need an actual rework.

It was nice to have a civil and respectful chat, but it's getting late for my dancing lessons (I'm on 3 coreos! :D) and I won't be back for a few hours. Take care :3

Likewise, P.S. what are 3 coreos?

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Kezriak said:

Likewise, P.S. what are 3 coreos?

I'm a Salsa/Bachata dancer, 22 july the academy where I study will have an event. I'm on 3 coreographies. Something like this:

or this:

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Nazrethim

[AKKILLA]

21 hours ago, Kezriak said:

 

Ash's Stats-Armor is low, which isnt a issue by itself, but he has the highest hp in the game, which really confuses me. a maxed Vitality (+440% hp) brings Ash to a wopping 1110 hp with 150 armor and 375 base shields which is just odd. Either reduce hp and increase armor (stats to mirror Saryn maybe?) or maybe rework Ash with lifesteal components to capitalize upon his massive hp pool.

To me in terms of his core kit and playstyle, Ash feels less like the assassin people would think he is, and more of a shock trooper thats in the frontlines based on his skillset and stat allocation, maybe a rework to adjust and consider that. Feedback appreciated, again, dont play many caster/invis frames so my interpretation of what I would like to see with this character is more than likely biased.

I said this in my thread awhile ago, Ashs stats are nowhere of an assassin or ninja in any online MMO RPG or Moba which I mainly play alot of Mobas and No assassin should be a Tank! He should have a higher energy pool and be squishy but a Glass Connon that deals High damage and is very elusive. The Lifesteal is perfect this is a good way for him to regen health, maybe when doing Finisher Kills he can either get an armor/shield increase for short duration or regen a small % of health back to compensate for the low health

For Christ sakes he is a Ninja, align his stats to fit the description

Edited June 22, 2017 by AKKILLA

[AKKILLA]

7 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

I'm a Salsa/Bachata dancer, 22 july the academy where I study will have an event. I'm on 3 coreographies. Something like this:

or this:

 

*Off topic 

Are You hispanic? xP

Im Cuban American, this is a must if You date a Spanish woman so I know how to dance bachata/salsa merengue. Im from Miami thats all You see in the clubs out here is either hip hop or spanish music lol

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, AKKILLA said:

*Off topic 

Are You hispanic? xP

Im Cuban American, this is a must if You date a Spanish woman so I know how to dance bachata/salsa merengue. Im from Miami thats all You see in the clubs out here is either hip hop or spanish music lol

I'm from Argentina, it's fairly "rare" here to dance anything other than Cumbia, Reggaeton, Chamamé or Cuarteto (I can dance all of them, but I prefer Salsa, Bachata and Chachacha)

Hilariously, since I speak in a "neutral" manner so I can be understood by anybody from Spain to Mexico to Colombia etc. most people I met can't quite tell where I'm from, even though I've lived in the same city all my life. Some people have asked me if I'm cuban, to which I'm fond of jokingly replying in a cuban accent "Tan cubano como el Che Guevara" (having been picked up acting on my highschool days helps a lot)

Something similar happens when I speak english, some people believe I'm from Los Angeles, other think I'm from Miami, other think I'm from NY and I've even been asked if I'm british.

Now I'm trying to learn japanese, portuguese, chinese and russian on the side for the fun of messing with people's minds. I still can't carry conversations on them though.

[AKKILLA]

41 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I'm from Argentina, it's fairly "rare" here to dance anything other than Cumbia, Reggaeton, Chamamé or Cuarteto (I can dance all of them, but I prefer Salsa, Bachata and Chachacha)

Hilariously, since I speak in a "neutral" manner so I can be understood by anybody from Spain to Mexico to Colombia etc. most people I met can't quite tell where I'm from, even though I've lived in the same city all my life. Some people have asked me if I'm cuban, to which I'm fond of jokingly replying in a cuban accent "Tan cubano como el Che Guevara" (having been picked up acting on my highschool days helps a lot)

Something similar happens when I speak english, some people believe I'm from Los Angeles, other think I'm from Miami, other think I'm from NY and I've even been asked if I'm british.

Now I'm trying to learn japanese, portuguese, chinese and russian on the side for the fun of messing with people's minds. I still can't carry conversations on them though.

BOLUDO! lol

Sorry I had to say that, now that I know You are Argentinian lol I have a client I tattooed last week, he is Argentinian and hates all Cubans but Me xD

He swears Im Puerto Rican cuz My skin tone and I dont talk like most cubans with that vulgar reffy accent. Im more americanized although I am bilingual and can speak both perfect I just prefer english.

Pero tambien me defiendo en espanol y Ash necesita una buena restauracion xD

[Kezriak]

Well, and here I am, the lonely Canadian Gringo :(

[AKKILLA]

Here is one of My favorite builds I dont mind sharing with You guys. Its all about keeping all the stats at 100% or above, his health is low his duration is high his damage is above average his range as well and efficiency almost maxed.

The best part I love about this build is I think I maybe the 1st to play a 2 augment build especially with Ash.

Spoiler

Spoiler

I hope You enjoy this build but note 1 important think. I use 2 Maxed Rank Arcane Trickery so i get the most out of this build. If You dont own Arcane Trickery I suggest You dont try this build unless You look forward to grinding or buying it. Its worth it trust Me!

[Nazrethim]

Nice. This is my regular all-purpose build:

Spoiler

 

The slot where 'Fatal Teleport' is serves as the "Augment Slot" so I put Smoke Shadow there too. The 'Primed Continuity' slot is often replaced by 'Rending Turn' too.

Also, here's my most recent addition to my "Blade Storm Collection" folder:

Spoiler

 

[Kezriak]

This is my bruiser Ash build, trying it now, like it so far, the Fatal Teleport benefits from attack speed on melee weapons (but no berzerker) so if you have primed fury it makes the animations faster, solid build overall for my playstyle

 

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Kezriak said:

This is my bruiser Ash build, trying it now, like it so far, the Fatal Teleport benefits from attack speed on melee weapons (but no berzerker) so if you have primed fury it makes the animations faster, solid build overall for my playstyle

 

Yes, it's really nice. Ya need another D polarity and a - one on the exilus slot to max that Handspring though.

[Kezriak]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Yes, it's really nice. Ya need another D polarity and a - one on the exilus slot to max that Handspring though.

Yea i know, only recently started playing Ash again so ima get on that, trying to find some new fast weapons to use lifestrike on, debating grabbing the rakta daggers i think is what they are called.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Kezriak said:

Yea i know, only recently started playing Ash again so ima get on that, trying to find some new fast weapons to use lifestrike on, debating grabbing the rakta daggers i think is what they are called.

Rakta Dark Dagger is one of the best weapons, yes. On top of being superb good due to FT/CL combo, if you use FT on a target affected by radiation your shield and overshields will be capped. I use the 'Homing Fang' stance on it. It lacks 'Pointed Wind' modifiers, but makes up for it by having a low-cut spinning combo that can hit targets like Rollers, Crawlers and enemies down stairs, something which 'Pointed Wind' high slice combos can't.

I keep a vast array of melee weapons I switch from time to time. I just wish we could equip multiple melee weapons per loadout. Doing the same combos over and over get boring quickly.

[Kezriak]

11 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Rakta Dark Dagger is one of the best weapons, yes. On top of being superb good due to FT/CL combo, if you use FT on a target affected by radiation your shield and overshields will be capped. I use the 'Homing Fang' stance on it. It lacks 'Pointed Wind' modifiers, but makes up for it by having a low-cut spinning combo that can hit targets like Rollers, Crawlers and enemies down stairs, something which 'Pointed Wind' high slice combos can't.

I keep a vast array of melee weapons I switch from time to time. I just wish we could equip multiple melee weapons per loadout. Doing the same combos over and over get boring quickly.

Reason I'm considering Rakta is because of fatal teleport, the finisher animations are way to long winded for my liking so as a result, it takes me out of the action too often. It'd be nice if you could mix n match loadouts via a consumable or something