Forma Alert = Too Freaking Ridiculous.

[xenapan]

Patently untrue if the wave of enemies bottoms out the performance of the game as I have seen it do for many of my player friends.

Something is wrong with this mission and it's not simply 'kill more faster'.

The performance dives hard when the waves spawn which is new behaviour since U9 and do not run as efficiently in general.

Thats a computer issue. not a game issue and totally irrelevant to the topic.

[Drusus]

Thats a computer issue. not a game issue and totally irrelevant to the topic.

Actually, it was not a computer issue.

It was consistent across multiple hosts and multiple computers and configurations of reasonably robust hardware.

And if the mission was spawning at a rate that outstrips the programs ability to render and manage the enemies appropriately, it is relevant, which was my point; that the mission itself seemed to be set at a point that the technology was having trouble sustaining the enemy levels.

I'm all for challenging and difficult missions. I would like them to actually run though and simply piling on more enemies is a recipe for technical challenges like this.

Regardless, point taken that this may be a lateral problem the mission illustrated.

[Azraill]

Actually, it was not a computer issue.

It was consistent across multiple hosts and multiple computers and configurations of reasonably robust hardware.

 

 

It doesn't effect everyone however, this isn't just to be argumentative either. My system handles these waves with only a minor slowdown and that goes away if I tune my graphics down, and my computer is two years old. I can remain well above 30 FPS even on the largest, most insane waves of enemies. It does have alot to do with your specs, and tuning down graphics when you know your going to be doing a mission that requires more resources. General missions can remain on high graphics, defense and mobile defense where heavy waves are all concentrated in one area - tune it down. Alot of games require this sort of planning, you can play through Dark Souls, Fear, Borderlands, Saints Row, LFD hell even way back in Half Life 2 - with high settings for 'most' of the game but when the bigger more resourceful set pieces and larger groups of enemies get thrown in - may require you tone back settings.

[Aedwynn]

Test: 

 

Outter Terminus - Level 70-70 : Wave 1-5 : Solo

 

Ash : Obtaining wave 2 is doable, but perhaps it's because I haven't used him in so long, or simply his ability set is so anti-defense I can't get him past this point personally: though that's not calling it impossible, tried three times without much real plotting behind each attempt outside of on the third I removed all of his abilities and went in with sheer armor and shields and the like and actually pressed on to near wave 3. I'd say for the hardest warframe to use in a Defense mission, it was.. well hard. A lot of solo Defense varies on the map as well. If one of the missions had ever been a center-piece of the bridge, I imagine any warframe could complete the mission with relative ease. Alas, not my luck.

 

Ember : She obtained 3 waves, but then got distracted into hunting for more mods. Sooo.. can't conclude on this one. <.<

 

Frost : Pathetically easy. But that's to be expected. 

 

Volt : Holy S#&$e.. I haven't had so much fun in awhile XD : He was balanced for this, it felt like Ninja Gaiden on hard mode, in a constant panning state around the screen and got to wave 4 before being dismantled due to sheer idioticy in activating his ult and being killed near the end of it's cast. Honestly hitting wave 5 with Volt would be entertainingly fun solo. I loved it through and through and am going back to do it again for the challenge of it after this post.  -- But that's to be expected from a Warframe half-designed for defense and half designed for DPS, jack of all trades killah. 

 

Conclusion: 

 

Solo, a frame not designed for Defense, in the highest level defense mission: will meet one hell of a challenge. It's possibly doable, but not in a constant manor. It's a true "Nightmare" Difficulty, something you punish yourself with if your doing it. > Mag/Ash/?Trinity?

 

Solo, a frame designed partially for Defense : Sayrn, Loki, Volt will complete the mission with a sense of accomplishment and true challange, but no great wall stopping them.

 

Solo, a frame entirely for Defense: Frost, Vauban, Nyx - Will find the missions easy.

So, you didn't get even to wave 5? I must remind that high level alerts ask you to stand for 15 waves at least, so for Ash and Ember this is impossible versus Corpus.

 

Orly? Doing T3 Exterminates and Raids is not that hard, it's just time consuming. Try not facing more than 2-3 enemies at once.

 

Defense and Mobile Defense Missions aren't really supposed to be done alone. If you do them on your own, especially Outer Terminus, you're doing something wrong.

 

Any other mission .. no. Just no. What other mission could be "unsoloable"? Ambulas? Raptor? Kela De Thaym? Phorid? Hyena? Lech Kril?

Out of those Lech Kril is probably the hardest to do unless you're Ash or Loki, the 2nd hardest being the Hyena as it really eats a lot of bullets now. The rest? No. Easy mode.

 

Maybe the Spy and Rescue Missions on Pluto are hard, but with a heavily modded Lex even those enemies go down within 1-2 seconds. If nothing else works (or I'm too idle to shoot em all), I use Rhino Stomp. Or Radial Disarm. Or Chaos. (Don't have any other frame yet). I don't see where that should lead into a problem.

 

So no, sorry, but that's no lie. That's my honest opinion. Outsmarting the AI ain't hard, and out-DPSing them is neither. You have things like elemental mods, serration, magazine warp, speed trigger, Split Chamber. they don't. They might have unlimited ammunition, which you don't, and be many more than you, but that doesn't make them more intelligent than a refrigerator. Also both sides have cover with the AI barely uses to an extent where one could say 'they are actually realizing that there is some solid C.O.V.E.R in front of them'.

Seems you misunderstand something. Post I replied to stated "Any mission can be done with any warframe solo." I replied that there are end game missions that certain Frames can't do solo. So ,yes that mentioned post is a lie. You cans ee example of such circumstances in our discussion with Azraill.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Aedwynn

[Azraill]

 

So, you didn't get even to wave 5? I must remind that high level alerts ask you to stand for 15 waves at least, so for Ash and Ember this is impossible versus Corpus.

 

Seems you misunderstand something. Post I replied to stated "Any mission can be done with any warframe solo." I replied that there are end game missions that certain Frames can't do solo. So ,yes that's a lie.

 

Volt passed Wave 5 Outer Terminus. He'd struggle to reach Wave 15 but I'd say it's doable for the dedicated, it would just require proper Shield setups. - Note my test is also from someone who doesn't Solo often, so that's another factor all in and of itself that there are better out there than me.

 

So in the end what I really gave some proof of, is yes : not all warframes can manage every single solitary mission in the game. Ash sure as hell doesn't belong in Solo defense, but a S#&$e ton of other frames do, went across the board with friends attempts, Nyx has it alright, Ember can manage though it's a struggle, Volt can manage though it's a struggle, Frost has it easy, Vauban is map based when it comes to Corpus but can hold his own. Not all frames do so hot as Solo assassins either, but Ash sure as hell does, just as Volt is the king of speedruns and jack of all trades and Ember clears light mobs at record pace.

 

In the end: the test results stand as proof the entire mission set CAN be solo'd, but you damn well come in with a Defensive frame for defense missions, and survivalist frames for assassination missions.

 

Also, the 'entire game' never includes Alerts, Void or Nightmare: while all three are possible with some luck and just about any frame (Unless it's a Void III Defense.. you should see that place with a full group. :D Fun times.) can manage it. (Solo Volt Vs Tier 3 .. victorai. Ash Vs Tier 3 .. Victory.. Frost Vs Tier 3 = Victory : Nyx Vs Tier 3 = Victory) it's just not wise. In the end if your in an Alert that's high level (70+) you need the best, as you SHOULD need. 

 

On another note, the infested Forma run this topic began on was level 35: and my Volt could have solo'd it albeit might have been a struggle :  and infested are considered his weakpoint. 

 

Example: Ash has nothing to benifit him in a Defense mission: He has throwing stars that won't do enough damage even with maxed focus it won't scratch the level 70+'s enough to be valid really, but it's the ONLY ability he has for this : because : 

 

Smoke screen just tells them to shoot the point, instant game over.

 

Teleport - if you used it, you just left the point unguarded or you needed to get back to the point which - will already be dead.

 

Blade Storm - You just told the enemy to all shoot the unguarded point while you dart to slow from opponent to opponent : game over.

 

You don't bring him to a Defense, just as you don't really bring a support character solo (Mag, Trinity .. though I haven't played Trinity, I imagine she'd actually be a blast Solo Nightmare.....)

Edited July 19, 2013 by Azraill

[mhyr1104]

I managed to do it with 3 Frosts and 1 Excalibur...already failed it 3 times
I could have soloed it if not for those Toxic Ancients and the complete lag upon being swarmed by light infested. My Hate could OHK all light Infested with a normal melee...fml

[Taranis49]

Uh.....

 

#1). Could we please move away from Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense as the only farking source of any type of reward in this game? I mean, what is this supposed to be DefenseFrame or something? *rolls eyes* We need better rewards from the other mission types.

 

#2). Last I checked, Xini is Infested and all Grineer Defense are that STUPID "GIANT FREAKING PILLAR IN THE CENTER" that most random PuG Groups horribly fail at, because they let guys run right up to the pillar while they're off running around. This means I usually get stuck defending the pillar, and doesn't leave me much room to, uh, you know, collect mods that drop.

 

Focus only drops from Grineer mobs (atleast, that's been my experience) but you can get it from Xini as a wave reward - out of the half-dozen I've got, two-thirds of them came from Xini, the other two I received in Mercury (one from a nightmare mission, the other while farming Vor).

 

And as an aside, I don't see why defense shouldn't grant the best rewards either, it's effectively the most difficult mission type currently in the game (and the one that carries the biggest risk of failure).

[Luckyfer]

i run all alerts with the frame and the weapons i have currently equipped from leveling.

so i think, i ve done the alert with a lvl 23 trinity, with 3 lvl 17 weapons (i've done one T3 defense, with unranked weapons, so at the end all 3 were 17).

and I had not problem what so ever.

[Drusus]

It doesn't effect everyone however, this isn't just to be argumentative either. My system handles these waves with only a minor slowdown and that goes away if I tune my graphics down, and my computer is two years old. I can remain well above 30 FPS even on the largest, most insane waves of enemies. It does have alot to do with your specs, and tuning down graphics when you know your going to be doing a mission that requires more resources. General missions can remain on high graphics, defense and mobile defense where heavy waves are all concentrated in one area - tune it down. Alot of games require this sort of planning, you can play through Dark Souls, Fear, Borderlands, Saints Row, LFD hell even way back in Half Life 2 - with high settings for 'most' of the game but when the bigger more resourceful set pieces and larger groups of enemies get thrown in - may require you tone back settings.

For fear for further derailment one piece of information on that.

As I had already tailored my settings down to the minimum graphically I would not expect that would be the variable in question, and I have well above the minimum needed for the game in DX 11 or Dx 9. It was not rendering issues so much as network/communication/update lag in the means in which it was manifesting (warping of enemies, etc.).

Totally fair point though, I grant.

[Phoenix86]

Rhino is your answer.

Iron Skin + Roar + Fragor Brokk with maxed Fury = Berserk Mode

Or just spam stomp.

Or any other AoE ulti. Even Overload can do the trick.

There were so many mobs, that I was never short on energy.

 

Fixed :)

[Soaron]

Why are you complaining!!!

 

Those super hairy missions are the only reason I play this game.

 

 

 

From Apocalypse Now:

 

• 00:53:18 Is it gonna be hairy?

• 00:53:22 I don't know, kid. Yeah, probably.

• 00:53:26 You like it like that, Captain, when it's hot, hairy?

• 00:53:30 F***.

• 00:53:41 Maybe you'll get a chance to know...

YES. In fact that is my Fave mobile defense mission, that room with the Artifact on Wheels. About the only defense mission where you are showered with swarms right at the core.

 

And yeah, they are really hard. I think that's the point. I've failed those many times, but it's usually the team overall (including myself). Sometimes you get teamed up with the perfect team, where everyone is on point and you accomplish the mission with balanced statistics for all players. Those are the perfect little moments in this game.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Soaron

[Llokii]

It isn't too hard if you know what you're doing.  Yeah,  there are a lot of swarms coming at once, but World on Fire kills most in 1-2 ticks, then just focus on the ancients and don't stand in the green clouds.  Plus the mobs drop so many energy balls chaining WoF is pretty easy to do.

[Mhak]

Had no problem with the Alert... just need a Nyx.

This. I solo'd it on my Nyx and didn't even think it was a challenge. But then I don't think anything is challenging on a Nyx.

 

"Is that dude/robot/zombie aiming a gun at me? *@##&#036;es don't know about mah CHAOS! Chaoschaoschaoschaosmindcontrolchaoschaos."

[NovusNiveus]

Did it with Rhino (Me), Loki and two Excaliburs - had to wade into the sea of infested a few times to pick my buddies up. Once we got to the pod, the Infested never even touched it. I was so proud - covering the stairway chokepoints and only using their AoEs when **** got hairy.

 

It was intense, but the scoreboard at the end showed upwards of 250 kills for each player. It did help that all of us had some form of Fire and Cryo shot equipped.

 

After we saved the pod, I had the guys gather round, and I set off the Grand Finale I had been saving for a rainy day.

 

 

...now, seriously, you people. Don't expect them to just hand you a Forma. If you wanted a free Forma you should have done the Alienware giveaway that just so happened to be giving out exactly the right amount of platinum to buy one. It's not like that thing is going to be useful to you until you have at least two level 30 frames and primary weapons, anyway - if you're turned off by the idea that there's content in a game that requires you to have a certain level of power to beat it, you have no use for forma.

Edited July 19, 2013 by UnearthedArcana