Suggestion: Bullet Dodging

[PaperFett]

I've noticed that a lot of players don't take advantage of the parkour mechanics in Warframe aside from getting from point A to point B. It seems like the attraction of Warframe is partly due to the parkour elements and combat, but they aren't often used together. For the most part players just charge forward guns blazing then chain slide to the next encounter. Wall running to close the gap on an enemy is cool but it doesnt serve much purpose as once you're out of cover theres not much you can do to break the enemy's lock on you. This is apparent in beam weapons like the one used by the new Captain Vor, where, unless you find cover, is 100% accurate.

 

I've noticed there are two ways an enemy shoots at you,

random fire in your direction, in which almost every bullet misses, like suppressive fire.

And aimed fire, in which almost every round in their magazine streams into your chest unless you break line of sight.

This is just an observation, I'm not going to pretend to know the mechanics behind it.

But leaving cover to jump and flip your way to an enemy is simply a cool way to get killed. Trying to flank around an enemy (only to get a 180 degree rifle butt to the face) or evade fire by simply being faster than them doesn't really work.

 

My suggestion is having an enemy's accuracy lowered when targeting a player who is jumping, rolling, wall running, etc. I think linking parkour and bullet evasion would be an excellent addition to the game. It would give players an incentive to utilize the many parkour moves in combat settings and would be refreshing to solo players who dont have teammates to draw fire. Playing cover to cover or simply eating bullets because of your massive shield cap doesn't seem very "ninja" to me, and I think players should be rewarded for playing like a the Warframes we see in the trailers.

[Delirious_Panda]

This would be awesome considering that the enemies 99% of the tme have 100% accuracy and its is hard to avoid it when there is no cover. 

[Oizen]

Im afraid to wall run, because if you decide to let go of the sprint button while wall running. You're launched to the other side of the map uncontrolably.

 

Hardcore parkour?

[PaperFett]

Im afraid to wall run, because if you decide to let go of the sprint button while wall running. You're launched to the other side of the map uncontrolably.

 

Hardcore parkour?

 

lol true true. but i often use that to my advantage to cover ground. the trick i use is to melee while wall running to keep from slingshotting into another dimension

[Lord_Bob]

I think this would be a nice addition, since blocking doesn't seem to work that well.

[Farge]

I thought of something like this earlier. Sounds like a good idea, it doesn't make much sense that enemies can hit a Loki sprinting at mach 10 with the same ease as hitting someone who's standing still.

[Oizen]

I think this would be a nice addition, since blocking doesn't seem to work that well.

Does that even do anything?

 

I like to spam block with the Kogake to make it look like Im strangling my party members but other than that....

[Bushee]

Does that even do anything?

 

I like to spam block with the Kogake to make it look like Im strangling my party members but other than that....

 

Blocking reduces all damage by 50%

 

But it's a bit pointless when instead of dying slower you could be shooting them to death so you stop taking damage at all.

[PaperFett]

didn't they say they were gonna make blocking passive or a mod or do something to make it useful like 2 updates ago? lol

[Ronyn]

I agree with this suggestion.

It's been brought up before and I have always supported it.

 

I don't think it is any excuse for blocking to be weak though. that is a separate issue.

[AttackNitro]

This is easily done by adding a reaction time to slow down AI. Currently they react as fast as the server can process... Which is thousands of times faster than humans can react to stimuli.

Adding a few milliseconds of delay would mean they would shoot at where you were not where you are while moving quickly. And as a result bullet evasion is possible

[PaperFett]

This is easily done by adding a reaction time to slow down AI. Currently they react as fast as the server can process... Which is thousands of times faster than humans can react to stimuli.

Adding a few milliseconds of delay would mean they would shoot at where you were not where you are while moving quickly. And as a result bullet evasion is possible

 

Basing the accuracy on the speed of the player creates issues that can be exploited. Players can sprint faster than most parkour moves, which makes simply sprinting sideways a way to avoid all damage. Combine that with the rush mod and it creates more problems than it solves. I think making it specific to combo moves would be safer.

[whitejackale]

I've noticed that a lot of players don't take advantage of the parkour mechanics in Warframe aside from getting from point A to point B. It seems like the attraction of Warframe is partly due to the parkour elements and combat, but they aren't often used together. For the most part players just charge forward guns blazing then chain slide to the next encounter. Wall running to close the gap on an enemy is cool but it doesnt serve much purpose as once you're out of cover theres not much you can do to break the enemy's lock on you. This is apparent in beam weapons like the one used by the new Captain Vor, where, unless you find cover, is 100% accurate.

 

I've noticed there are two ways an enemy shoots at you,

random fire in your direction, in which almost every bullet misses, like suppressive fire.

And aimed fire, in which almost every round in their magazine streams into your chest unless you break line of sight.

This is just an observation, I'm not going to pretend to know the mechanics behind it.

But leaving cover to jump and flip your way to an enemy is simply a cool way to get killed. Trying to flank around an enemy (only to get a 180 degree rifle butt to the face) or evade fire by simply being faster than them doesn't really work.

 

My suggestion is having an enemy's accuracy lowered when targeting a player who is jumping, rolling, wall running, etc. I think linking parkour and bullet evasion would be an excellent addition to the game. It would give players an incentive to utilize the many parkour moves in combat settings and would be refreshing to solo players who dont have teammates to draw fire. Playing cover to cover or simply eating bullets because of your massive shield cap doesn't seem very "ninja" to me, and I think players should be rewarded for playing like a the Warframes we see in the trailers.

I do not like the idea of making the game easier.

[PaperFett]

I do not like the idea of making the game easier.

 

you can either take cover or dodge. you can't do both at once so its another choice in playstyle. They can't stack together to make it less difficult. I don't want the game to be easier and honestly I would prefer to have dodging, which has an element of skill, and have the defensive mods turned down if it did cause an issue with difficulty.

Edited July 19, 2013 by PaperFett

[zergla]

I like this. Would definetly make the players more "ninja" as you put it so nicely.

[Destro6677]

+1 for dodging. Trying to outshoot enemies with heavier firepower is hard enough. At least if we could dodge, we'd have a chance to get into melee and tear them apart.

[Winterbraid]

Would like to see it happen too. Anything that makes me spend less time sitting behind a piece of chest-high wall is a welcome addition to the game.

[Helljack84]

I've noticed there are two ways an enemy shoots at you,

random fire in your direction, in which almost every bullet misses, like suppressive fire.

And aimed fire, in which almost every round in their magazine streams into your chest unless you break line of sight.

If the grineer grakata has similar stats to our version it would explain how the damage "feels" because at mid to long range only a few bullets will hit even if you're not moving at all. I also noticed that high lvl grineer seem to have better marksman skills, but that might be just higher damage per bullet.

 

It's already possible to dodge enemy fire/attacks to some degree vs corpus and infested. Unless they're hitting you in the face at point-blank of course.

Most Grineer use hitscan weapons so no neo-style here i guess. But...doesn't crouching, sliding etc change the size of your hitbox? I'm sure i noticed a drop-off in their damage if i crouch while being sprayed with bullets. If I'm not wrong with that, parcour is still helpful in avoiding damage and not getting surrounded.

 

Also, if blocking really gives 50% reduction it might be a viable alternative to get into cc if there's no cover to break los/use parcour skills.

[Nkomo-Sama]

Interesting observation I agree with the suggestion whole heartedly as it would provide a greater incentive to use the wall running dynamic. Evasion evasion evasion!. Although blocking is a seperate matter it should SO be buffed... Think I'll open a topic on that....

[PaperFett]

If the grineer grakata has similar stats to our version it would explain how the damage "feels" because at mid to long range only a few bullets will hit even if you're not moving at all. I also noticed that high lvl grineer seem to have better marksman skills, but that might be just higher damage per bullet.

 

It's already possible to dodge enemy fire/attacks to some degree vs corpus and infested. Unless they're hitting you in the face at point-blank of course.

Most Grineer use hitscan weapons so no neo-style here i guess. But...doesn't crouching, sliding etc change the size of your hitbox? I'm sure i noticed a drop-off in their damage if i crouch while being sprayed with bullets. If I'm not wrong with that, parcour is still helpful in avoiding damage and not getting surrounded.

 

Also, if blocking really gives 50% reduction it might be a viable alternative to get into cc if there's no cover to break los/use parcour skills.

 

I'm not sure if crouching counts as parkour. There is logic in presenting a smaller hitbox but its reduction in size is negligible and doesn't help in close quarters as you become a bigger target when reducing the distance between you and enemies. This suggestion is to offer the parkour part of this game as a viable alternative to simply taking cover, and as it is now it doesn't really compare.

[Heptimus]

This would be perfect if there was melee only games

[PaperFett]

This would be perfect if there was melee only games

 

+1 for a more entertaining Nightmare mode

[Fluffbane]

While it might be hard to implement, the enemies really ought have a harder time tracking a quickly moving target. It's currently just this side of possible to out-maneuver them if you get behind something quickly enough at very close range, but as anyone who has even watched something like trap shooting knows, even from a few yards away it's still very difficult. Weaving somewhat helps especially against corpus, but after a certain point in the game doing anything other than plodding along and peeking around corners and over boxes becomes completely suicidal.

 

As it stands now, fast and maneuverable frames actually have to be played in a less maneuverable manner, since due to less shields and hp they explode far more quickly. And this should also be a viable strategy; a Banshee should be able to sit around behind a box sniping everything. However, it really should be an option as opposed to the only​ option.

 

I'm also not sure exactly where the balance point might be. Being completely invulnerable to fire while sprinting like in Metal Gear: Rising might be too much, unless one considers that in that you block while sprinting and can do that forever, whereas here that combination can only be maintained for a very short period of time. 

 

Also for balance, as I've maintained in other threads, I feel the frame's armor should probably apply somewhat to shields, since then something large that can't run around quickly has a chance to be daring and isn't actually being punished for being slow. It would also separate fast things from tough things to a noticeable degree.

 

As for such changes making the game easier, this is again a balance issue. Running around on walls and doing somersaults is a challenge under fire. But if enemies simply tracked more slowly but fired more accurately once they zeroed in on a target (which again would mimic reality), this would balance things a bit since then situationally taking cover would be important as opposed to just standing around catching bullets with your face. It would also mean that things that can run at mach 4 along a wall don't have to cuddle boxes and doorframes obsessively as they do now. 

[Atlas_Smirked]

Why not give enemies an aim 'sensitivity' setting?Just sprinting wouldn't do let you dodge necessarily but doing a flip or wall dash would change directions fast enough to temporarily dodge enemy fire. Although I think if you're sprinting fast enough you should be able to dodge most fire.

 

 

Or they could just make enemy fire not perfectly accurate...you know...like how hipfiring works...

[PaperFett]

Why not give enemies an aim 'sensitivity' setting?Just sprinting wouldn't do let you dodge necessarily but doing a flip or wall dash would change directions fast enough to temporarily dodge enemy fire. Although I think if you're sprinting fast enough you should be able to dodge most fire.

 

 

Or they could just make enemy fire not perfectly accurate...you know...like how hipfiring works...

 

The issue isn't enemy accuracy but more making the parkour maneuvers more desirable. Solutions that cover any movement in general don't give that incentive and would risk making the game easier. It seems that you would have to make the game recognize the use of those maneuvers specifically and react to them rather than just the direction and movement speed of the player. Otherwise Volt could zigzag dash through levels with minimal shields.