Question For The F2P'ers, From A Grandmaster

[LeucienWeaver]

Ya'll keep from chokin' eachother over the topic, I got errands to run. Ya'll have a good evenin'.

[Phatose]

We paid for exclusive, not "open to everybody".  If there's going to be an exchange, it's between DE and the DC, and it's gonna need to be exclusive as well.

 

"You paid for first class, but now everybody is first class, so too bad for you!" is not acceptable.

 

That I *might* be ok with.  But let's be blunt here - this would be something between the design council and DE.  Non-DC members shouldn't be in the discussions at all.

[PettiTheYeti]

This thread is TL;DR right now, so I'll just respond to the OP.

 

Should the early info/Screens/Play videos be shared with the Free Players? Yes. They have just as much a right as we do to what is actually going on in the Dev's minds and with the game, at least as far as development progress goes. However, I think current Council polls and topics should be kept under wraps until DE has made the progress to show the public.

 

Should the Council be the only ones allowed to vote? Yes. We paid for the privilege to mold the game to our ideas, and with the Dev's hands somewhat tied by our opinions, we assure that the game follows closer to the path that the players want.

 

Should there be more things to vote on inside the Council? Yes. Big things like the new tilesets, Warframes, Weapons, and even the smaller things like "Is Vor too hard?" or "Should we nerf the Kunai?" and other things that may come up, should all be voted on. It may bring the development process to a crawl waiting for polls to complete with enough votes to be meaningful, but it would also ensure that the game development pertains to the players, and truly feels like it has been molded by the Council, as we paid to do.

 

However, all of this said, DE still retains final say, as they are the ones developing it. But they should put more trust into the Council's hands from the player point of view.

Edited July 19, 2013 by PettiTheYeti

[d1ru]

agreed. f2p'ers should see all the info as well, just not have the ability to vote.

[LeucienWeaver]

agreed. f2p'ers should see all the info as well, just not have the ability to vote.

I'm glad you think so, D1ru!

[Relkin]

This thread is TL;DR right now, so I'll just respond to the OP.

 

Should the early info/Screens/Play videos be shared with the Free Players? Yes. They have just as much a right as we do to what is actually going on in the Dev's minds and with the game, at least as far as development progress goes. However, I think current Council polls and topics should be kept under wraps until DE has made the progress to show the public.

 

Should the Council be the only ones allowed to vote? Yes. We paid for the privilege to mold the game to our ideas, and with the Dev's hands somewhat tied by our opinions, we assure that the game follows closer to the path that the players want.

 

Should there be more things to vote on inside the Council? Yes. Big things like the new tilesets, Warframes, Weapons, and even the smaller things like "Is Vor too hard?" or "Should we nerf the Kunai?" and other things that may come up, should all be voted on. It may bring the development process to a crawl waiting for polls to complete with enough votes to be meaningful, but it would also ensure that the game development pertains to the players, and truly feels like it has been molded by the Council, as we paid to do.

 

However, all of this said, DE still retains final say, as they are the ones developing it. But they should put more trust into the Council's hands from the player point of view.

 

What if, we did allow F2Pers see all the DC stuff and discuss it even.  In exchange, DC gets some new privs.  For example, we get a 5 day poll with a selection of departments such as animation, level design, weapon design, ect.  and then a sandbox to decide what we'd like them to add/modify/work on with a poll after that.  Perhaps we could get this on a fixed schedule so we get one a month or so?  Like, let the DC choose something for every GU that we'd like to see the most.  Think of it as, they set aside x amount of manhours a month to work on DC desired content. 

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

 

Should there be more things to vote on inside the Council? Yes. Big things like the new tilesets, Warframes, Weapons, and even the smaller things like "Is Vor too hard?" or "Should we nerf the Kunai?" and other things that may come up, should all be voted on. It may bring the development process to a crawl waiting for polls to complete with enough votes to be meaningful, but it would also ensure that the game development pertains to the players, and truly feels like it has been molded by the Council, as we paid to do.

No. From what I've seen, a lot of the DCers are not the kind of people you'd want to trust large game-changing votes to. We'd wind up with a game where ember is the only usable frame, ogris does 5 damage per shot with 1 ammo total and mercury is level 99-150 with every planet incrementally harder and not being a grand master gets you instantly banned from the game.

[Relkin]

No. From what I've seen, a lot of the DCers are not the kind of people you'd want to trust large game-changing votes to. We'd wind up with a game where ember is the only usable frame, ogris does 5 damage per shot with 1 ammo total and mercury is level 99-150 with every planet incrementally harder and not being a grand master gets you instantly banned from the game.

Ehh....what are you basing that off of? lol I know a fair amount of GM's who are really level headed people and we take no issue with non DC members.  As for difficulty I think you are grossly exaggerating things. 

[Shewpdanewb]

Oh great, we got someone who's all for class status. Guess who else loved the ideas of lesser human beings? I shouldn't even have to name him and his supporters.

Sorry but some people are better than others. That is just how life is. If you contribute nothing to mankind you are worth nothing to mankind. That certain person you are referring to was very extreme, but what he based his ideas on was actually something good. Why should leechers be fed. It may sound pretty extremist but it is the cold hard truth. That is how society works.

[B0AR]

People who buy a lot of platinum or founders in general contribute real life money to the game thus keeping it alive in terms of a general income balance, so of course we should get something exclusive.  You want to know how you can make yourself look like a complete idiot on this community?  Its mocking P2P players and bring up an equality argument.  If you have contributed nothing why should you get the exclusive stuff I get?  F2P Players do contribute one thing as a whole and that's a general player base demographic, that's it.  That being said, I do think they deserve to be in the design council and discuss on it, just not vote.  If someone disagrees with what I said then I'll probably assume you have leecher values in terms of an aspect of life.  Do not ever mock the people who gave real money to keep a game they love alive.  People just really don't understand how important platinum buyers are to this game.

[Seraphyx]

Lets not try to imply platinum buyers are more important than they are. Yes we support the game financially but for a free to play game if there are no players aside from platinum buyers it's not going to make it. Everyone is equal whether you like that or not. You don't make a free to play game work without either group of people.

 

If there are no plat buyers the game will die undoubtedly. If there are no free to play players to populate the game the game will die as well.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Seraphyx

[B0AR]

Lets not try to imply platinum buyers are more important than they are. Yes we support the game financially but for a free to play game if there are no players aside from platinum buyers it's not going to make it. Everyone is equal whether you like that or not. You don't make a free to play game work without either group of people.

 

If there are no plat buyers the game will die undoubtedly. If there are no free to play players to populate the game the game will die as well.

If you looked at my post I did say the F2P community contributes in one aspect lol.

 

"F2P Players do contribute one thing as a whole and that's a general player base demographic."

Edited July 19, 2013 by BryJFlex

[Seraphyx]

If you looked at my post I did say the F2P community contributes in one aspect lol.

 

"F2P Players do contribute one thing as a whole and that's a general player base demographic."

I saw that, but the whole tone of your post came off as we're far more important. Especially the bit where you say if you want to make yourself look like an idiot it's by mocking the p2p players and bringing up an equality argument, implying that you don't believe each group is equally important which is just flat out wrong in my opinion.

[Parinirvana]

I saw that, but the whole tone of your post came off as we're far more important. Especially the bit where you say if you want to make yourself look like an idiot it's by mocking the p2p players and bringing up an equality argument, implying that you don't believe each group is equally important which is just flat out wrong in my opinion.

F2p and P2P are not equal. That's a fact

[B0AR]

I saw that, but the whole tone of your post came off as we're far more important. Especially the bit where you say if you want to make yourself look like an idiot it's by mocking the p2p players and bringing up an equality argument, implying that you don't believe each group is equally important which is just flat out wrong in my opinion.

You're misjudging my statement.  I've seen people already say P2P players do nothing for the game multiple times in different word plays. If a person isn't idiotic when they say p2p players don't do anything for the game then I don't know what idiotic is.  Either way P2P community should always get more than the F2P side hence the unequal-ness.  And its not like I disregarded the F2P side anyways, because they DO belong in the Design Council.

Edited July 20, 2013 by BryJFlex

[Seraphyx]

F2p and P2P are not equal. That's a fact

To the success of a free to play game I'm sorry but yes they are.

 

You're misjudging my statement.  I've seen people already say P2P players do nothing for the game multiple times in different word plays. If a person isn't idiotic when they say p2p players don't do anything for the game then I don't know what idiotic is.  Either way P2P community should always get more than the F2P side hence the unequal-ness.  And its not like I disregarded the F2P side anyways, because they DO belong in the Design Council.

We do get extra stuff and that's whatever we buy with our money. That's the only unequalness I see and even then you can obtain 90% of the stuff without purchasing it. At this point the only thing we have and they don't is the design council and voting and that's hardly something I'd consider causing "unequality" or whatever. Barring that there is no unequalness.

 

Perhaps you should have quoted who you were talking to because I took that as a general statement towards everyone not a very specific group of people who you have seen say p2p players don't do anything for the game.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Seraphyx

[kithulhu]

To the success of a free to play game I'm sorry but yes they are.

Very much so , without f2p'ers where would the p2p'ers come from ? :3 just remember in every f2p game , there is always a turn over rate , you make the game fair and enjoyable for them and give some good perks/benifts to go p2p that aint to horribly unbalanced and then youll get a great amount of f2p'ers go to p2p , ya see where people like this are coming from (props to the quote'ee)

Edited July 20, 2013 by kithulhu

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Ehh....what are you basing that off of? lol I know a fair amount of GM's who are really level headed people and we take no issue with non DC members.  As for difficulty I think you are grossly exaggerating things. 

Personal experience. Even just a cursory glance at this topic and the opinions coming to light, if the design council got any real power over the game I wouldn't play it much longer despite now dropping 60+ bucks on it.

 

"Sorry but some people are better than others." This is definitely not the kind of person you want in control of an online game.

[Seraphyx]

Personal experience. Even just a cursory glance at this topic and the opinions coming to light, if the design council got any real power over the game I wouldn't play it much longer despite now dropping 60+ bucks on it.

 

"Sorry but some people are better than others." This is definitely not the kind of person you want in control of an online game.

You'll find that same exact type of attitude in "free to play" players or just non DC members as well just towards other subjects. So really it doesn't matter who is or isn't on the DC, the same attitudes will rise up.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

You'll find that same exact type of attitude in "free to play" players or just non DC members as well just towards other subjects. So really it doesn't matter who is or isn't on the DC, the same attitudes will rise up.

Which is why people shouldn't get to pay to be game designers. DE should listen to their beta testers but we shouldn't get to have serious control over the bloody game. The vast majority of people in any given community are absolutely terrible people.

[Seraphyx]

Which is why people shouldn't get to pay to be game designers. DE should listen to their beta testers but we shouldn't get to have serious control over the bloody game. The vast majority of people in any given community are absolutely terrible people.

But that's the thing, no one from the playerbase (DC or otherwise) has serious control over the game. That's not what the design council is at all. I have no doubt that DE is listening to everyone.

 

I honestly am not sure what their purpose for having the DC is at this point. Of course I would still like that it remains in existence I just want it to evolve into something more meaningful. The only difference between the DC and normal forums is that we can't create topics and that's about it. We get content preview of things shortly before everyone else and get to comment on them and that's about it. I haven't been on the DC long enough to really judge it, only through the Nova process, and I can tell you we did not influence much anything beyond voting for powers and names DE themselves put in the polls.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Seraphyx

[Shifty_Shuffler]

Masters should get 10% off all purchases of future plat, and GM 20%, permanently :)

 

What? You drunk?

 

EDIT: 13 pages... caught the start and the tail end. What happend?

 

There was a really good suggestion that the DC filters the intial ideas then the rest of the WF community votes on that.

 

There is also an idea/notion/feeling that just becuase you funded the game by a substanial amount doesn't make you a game designer (as much as you would like to be).

 

WE ALL WANT THE SAME THING. WHAT IS BEST FOR THIS GAME.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Shifty_Shuffler

[Relkin]

Personal experience. Even just a cursory glance at this topic and the opinions coming to light, if the design council got any real power over the game I wouldn't play it much longer despite now dropping 60+ bucks on it.

 

"Sorry but some people are better than others." This is definitely not the kind of person you want in control of an online game.

Yes that is it.  Base your opinions off the statements of a few select individuals and cherry picked statements.  Surely you are qualified to make a grand, sweeping, and laughably hypocritical statement like that. -.-

[Krylov]

Get rid of the rich kids club completely. :P

i ain't rich in the slightest....

[iValianT]

Maybe they could just make it so only master+ founders could post in design council , and all players could see council forum.