Nova And Ultimates (Please Do Read, Not A Complaint!)

[MangoMonkey]

Disclaimer: Hey all. Now, before you read ANY of this, I need to make one thing clear: I have Nova, and I adore Nova. I really do. I'm not jealous or spiteful of those of you who like or enjoy her. Right now, however, her ult trivializes all game content(I play a lot of T3 defense) and, on top of that, trivializes all her own powers. But I don't want her nerfed. I want her to remain relevant and varied, and after examining her powers, I think I know how to do this. Please consider this first, I love Nova as much as you do and I don't want to see her nerfed into the ground either.

 

Before any of this, however, I think it's vital that DE fixes the issues with Antimatter Drop off-host. This cannot be ignored for what I'm suggesting.

 

Right now, Molecular Prime halves enemy speed, doubles enemy damage and explodes like a nuclear bomb after every kill. This. Is. Insane. It's also awesome, but it makes all other damage frames obsolete and also ensures no-one ever needs to use any of her other powers. This is an issue for re-playability. So the solution to all the issues is simple:

Remove most of the explosive damage, and instead add stagger and knockdown.

 

Bear with me, here. What this leaves us with is the single most powerful crowd control ability in the game. Primed, an enemy is slowed to a crawl and takes double damage. Once detonated, it deals mild damage and hurls the enemies to the floor for your team to continue beating the hell out of them. For every single explosion. Again, and again, entire waves are floored.

 

Why do this? At this point, Nova still remains a damage powerhouse. However, her damage comes from her finally useful other ability - Antimatter Drop. With enemies being thrown on the floor constantly, Nova and her squad have ample time to wrack up the damage on the orb and detonate it, but it isn't the "one button to kill wave" thing it is now. She'd still be a god-tier Warframe, but wouldn't be quite so overpowering at even the highest levels of play. You'd be rewarded for good teamwork and have an incredible damage and CC caster.

Pair her with Vauban and Frost, as we usually do just now, and enemies are in serious trouble. Throw a Saryn in there to wrack up some Venom spore damage while they're down, or use Antimatter Drop to do the same. This would still give an astonishingly powerful frame, but would reward teamwork and power variety, as all the best frames should.

Please don't burn me. I only want what is best for her. I think we know a nerf is coming, I'd just like to see her remain incredible afterwards.
 

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EDIT: To clarify further, following this thread, I actually don't think Nova is OP. I'm just concerned that Molecular Prime is over-riding two of her other powers entirely in terms of damage, and with a slight tweak (not to reduce it's power, just to re-allocate it) would allow a much richer and more varied playstyle.

Edited July 22, 2013 by MangoMonkey

[Lady_Khaos]

If Molecular prime no longer explodes, then it is no longer behaving as anti-matter. Therefore meaning the Counsel's time of selecting anti-matter as her theme goes to waste. So in short, no. Also, Molecular Prime is incredibly ineffective when the enemies have shields. You would see this if you played anything other than defense, I assume Xini with infested. Against everything else, it isn't the kill all button.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Khaos_Zand3r

[MangoMonkey]

If Molecular prime no longer explodes, then it is no longer behaving as anti-matter. Therefore meaning the Counsel's time of selecting anti-matter as her theme goes to waste. So in short, no. Also, Molecular Prime is incredibly ineffective when the enemies have shields. You would see this if you played anything other than defense, I assume Xini with infested. Against everything else, it isn't the kill all button.

 

You misunderstand. I want it to explode. I want nothing visually or mechanically changed. I want the explosion damage toned down, and instead to hurl enemies to the ground. And no, please don't assume I'm just a Xini spammer. I find that incredibly dull.

T3 void defense, at level 100+ and every other mission type in the game. As of right now, on any level, I can drive my Nova into a room and wipe a room out. That's a lot of fun for me, but kinda sucks for my teammates and will get stale for us. This way, she retains all of her power but with more utility and variety.

Edited July 22, 2013 by MangoMonkey

[Vunie]

just play the game and stop trying to change it cuz you think this or that most people that play nova like her the way she is if your teammates cant kill thats their fault i been in games with 2 novas me using ember and i got 600kills while the novas got 100 besides an ult is suppose to kill not tickle the enemies 

[MangoMonkey]

just play the game and stop trying to change it cuz you think this or that most people that play nova like her the way she is if your teammates cant kill thats their fault i been in games with 2 novas me using ember and i got 600kills while the novas got 100 besides an ult is suppose to kill not tickle the enemies 

 

Then your Nova player's had no idea what they were doing. If they'd primed enemies, the first time your own ult killed an enemy, the rest would die. So it would, in fact, be mechanically impossible for you to get that many kills because each kill you got would net the Nova player many more. Which is fine, of course. It's a team game and kills mean little, but it does somewhat devalue the difficulty and your statement.

And no, actually, an ult is not just supposed to slaughter enemies for each and every frame, mindlessly. Radial Disarm, Rhino's Stomp - all CC focused powers, with some damage and incredible utility. Given that Nova has several other monstrous damage powers, she doesn't need another focused only upon that.

Edited July 22, 2013 by MangoMonkey

[sh0Zz]

I read only "Nova and Balance" and thought QQ moar bye

[MangoMonkey]

EDIT: Wiping this because I'm super-ignorant, apparently! Sorry.

Edited July 22, 2013 by MangoMonkey

[-Nerf-Herder-]

I played with several PUG's over the weekend, all which had a problem with my nova's powers. "Ur'e  TOO OP!!!" etc.....

 

So i decided to play without using my 4th power for 20 or so defense missions, what i saw.

Volt wiping out entire platoons or corpus in one fell swoop, from one side of the map to the other. Used power twice to kill entire wave, after wave.

 

Frost exploding everything around or near the Pod into chunks of ice, albeit power is strong but does have a short fall off.

 

Rhino stomping and killing every single weak type enemy instantly and causing all the heavies to slowing fall to the ground which a second stop killed them all. Huge area of effect, half the map!

Ember, ring of fire taking up half the map, the world on fire spammed and killed everything from one side of the map to the other, barely had to use the WOF key twice per wave.
 

Sayrn, close to the spawn points and boom, instant goo, wave cleared....

Banshee, sound quake, this kills every small enemy in a huge radius and then anyone that walks into after. Much less effective on higher enemies, has to be spammed countless times.

 

Excal - Slash and dash, kills entire lines of troops/infested. Radial javelin to finish off the heavies. Usually sits on ramps to line enemies up.

 

Vauban - Bastille and vortex. Spams a vortex at the spawn points and a Bastille at the pod... no one has to even move....

 

NYX - Chaos, all enemy in the map are affected, the range is insane. half of them kill each other the rest don't attack players unless you are close to them. like shooing fish in a barrel.

 

ASH - I feel ash is the one left out, the blade storm is nice and kills some of the heavies but he's mostly limited and spend most of the time going one on one with enemies. He needs a tweak to compete.

 

Trinity - God mode - No one dies... ever.... allows the rest to solo anything in the map.

 

So in conclusion, do i feel NOVA is domineering? No, not in the least, her power doesn't kill heavies in one go, the range is good when maxed out but it's nothing compared to rhino's stomp or nyx's chaos. Her skill is comparable to Banshees sonar, allowing other players to do double damage when in effect but with a firework show at the end..

 

Each frame when used correctly can domineer the map.

 

I also played a game last night where two other nova's were in play, both spamming the m-prime key, both were very ineffective as they didn't get close enough to the enemy to use it properly.

[MangoMonkey]

So in conclusion, do i feel NOVA is domineering? No, not in the least, her power doesn't kill heavies in one go, the range is good when maxed out but it's nothing compared to rhino's stomp or nyx's chaos. Her skill is comparable to Banshees sonar, allowing other players to do double damage when in effect but with a firework show at the end..

 

You're right, for sure. Other powers do compare pretty well. But the thing is, that what I suggested actually goes entirely in line with "sonar with a firework display", only the power would no longer be focused on explosive damage (sonar doesn't explode or kill everything on top of the enormous debuff) and would instead become a CC skill, with the damage hike still in effect. This would allow her other powers to come into play to compliment it.

[sh0Zz]

Please. More level 1 "initiate" players come and tell me how much you know about the game. At least Khaos provided some reasonable counter arguments, probably because he's familiar with more than just how to make Excalibur use Slash Dash.

 

Oh so you can see how much knowledge someone have about the Game by looking at his Posts right ? cewl Bro, really...

 

Just try one thing for me please, if you find some Time between complaining, go beyond Wave 50 on a T3 Defense and Show me how you mash 4 to Win....

 

Whining, Oh No Nova is OP She blows up the first 30 Waves alone is just bullS#&$...

[MangoMonkey]

 

 

Oh so you can see how much knowledge someone have about the Game by looking at his Posts right ? cewl Bro, really...

 

Just try one thing for me please, if you find some Time between complaining, go beyond Wave 50 on a T3 Defense and Show me how you mash 4 to Win....

 

Whining, Oh No Nova is OP She blows up the first 30 Waves alone is just bullS#&$...

 

 

Not post count. The "mastery rank" title, showing your experience in-game, which can be found right above your avatar. Your post count is meaningless, as you rightly pointed out.

EDIT: And I was wrong! Apologies, SomatiK, I was wrong about how the forum/in-game system works and you're clearly higher rank, with more in-game experience, than I gave you credit for. That being said, I'd still like you to justify why this idea is so terrible?

Edited July 22, 2013 by MangoMonkey

[Shadowedcross]

The rank above a user's forum avatar is linked to their post count, not their in-game Mastery Rank

[suadumpy]

Not post count. The "mastery rank" title, showing your experience in-game, which can be found right above your avatar. Your post count is meaningless, as you rightly pointed out.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to get in the way of your mindless, ill-informed ranting, though.

That rank there is related to your post count. ._.

[MangoMonkey]

The rank above a user's forum avatar is linked to their post count, not their in-game Mastery Rank

 

Huh. You're entirely right, I checked. I apologise, SomatiK, I was entirely wrong here, sorry.

That being said, you've not given real reasons why this is a bad idea. I like Nova as much as you guys do, really I do. I run high-level missions constantly, including successful T3 void missions, in which enemies are rank 120+. Nova's explosions don't kill them outright, but her double-damage on TOP of the explosions make for an incredible ability. Too incredible, I think. I'd lik eot keep the double damage and add less "bonus" explosive damage, instead tying it to more utility and crowd control, to make her other abilities more useful.

[ValhaHazred]

The thing above your Avatar is a forum title. It changes based on postcount milestones, not Mastery Rank.

Edit: Ninja'd!

I'm rank 7 if it matters, and it's important to remember that Nova is a Glass Cannon. She is intentional very powerful, but she has very poor shields and health, and unlike Loki, she has no defensive panic buttons. She is there to deal massive damage against the largest possible number of enemies, but only with the support of her team.

Edited July 22, 2013 by ValhaHazred

[MangoMonkey]

The thing above your Avatar is a forum title. It changes based on postcount milestones, not Mastery Rank.

Edit: Ninja'd!

I'm rank 7 if it matters, and it's important to remember that Nova is a Glass Cannon. She is intentional very powerful, but she has very poor shields and health, and unlike Loki, she has no defensive panic buttons. She is there to deal massive damage against the largest possible number of enemies, but only with the support of her team.

 

I know. Really, I do. I don't want to take that away from her. I'm just trying to add some variety to her gameplay, make Antimatter Drop more useful in comparison, and give her some useful team crowd control in addition to her damage potential.

[suadumpy]

Huh. You're entirely right, I checked. I apologise, SomatiK, I was entirely wrong here, sorry.

That being said, you've not given real reasons why this is a bad idea. I like Nova as much as you guys do, really I do. I run high-level missions constantly, including successful T3 void missions, in which enemies are rank 120+. Nova's explosions don't kill them outright, but her double-damage on TOP of the explosions make for an incredible ability. Too incredible, I think. I'd lik eot keep the double damage and add less "bonus" explosive damage, instead tying it to more utility and crowd control, to make her other abilities more useful.

Nova's Molecular Prime's claim to fame was that it chain-reacted. It would make the ability less unique if it was taken away.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Shotgunboyy

[MangoMonkey]

Nova's Molecular Prime's claim to fame was that it chain-reacted. It would make the ability less unique if it was taken away.

 

Yeah. I don't want to remove it, just change what it does. I'd like to tone down the damage, not remove it, keeping it capable of chain-reacting low-level and weakened enemies to still make it a useful damage ability across a wide area. In exchange for this damage reduction, I'd add knockdown and stagger. This would allow Antimatter Drop to come into play as the "real" damage ability, with a much smaller radius in exchange for monstrous damage potential in well-organized team and a lower energy cost.

EDIT: Added a note to the OP to clarify this. I don't think Nova is OP, that wasn't what this thread is about. I just want to make her play-style more varied and allow her other powers to shine equally. I had no intention of debating how Nova compares with other frames or whether she's too powerful. Simply to re-allocate the focus of her powers to give them all a purpose.

Edited July 22, 2013 by MangoMonkey

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I don't have Nova, but from my perspective like the idea in the OP.

 

I don't want her nerfed into the ground (I haven't played with allies with her enough to even see what she's capable of), but any damage frame will inevitably fall off.  Making her damage reliant on something that does scale (Antimatter Drop) and giving her ult tons of CC would be lovely simply because she would remain relevant forever.  This is why I support the OP, not because she's too powerful now or anything.  Even if she was UP right now by the numbers I'd still support the OP simply because it gives her the ability to remain relevant in defense indefinitely which right now, her ult will inevitably become a waste of energy (though of course, this will be a very high level when that happens).

[MangoMonkey]

I don't have Nova, but from my perspective like the idea in the OP.

 

I don't want her nerfed into the ground (I haven't played with allies with her enough to even see what she's capable of), but any damage frame will inevitably fall off.  Making her damage reliant on something that does scale (Antimatter Drop) and giving her ult tons of CC would be lovely simply because she would remain relevant forever.  This is why I support the OP, not because she's too powerful now or anything.  Even if she was UP right now by the numbers I'd still support the OP simply because it gives her the ability to remain relevant in defense indefinitely which right now, her ult will inevitably become a waste of energy (though of course, this will be a very high level when that happens).

 

Thank you for that, seriously. That's exactly what I was trying to portray, but it got bogged down in issues of her relative power and OP, which I did not intend to debate. Not my intention. I like where Nova is at just now, I just want to help her scaling and to allow her other powers to shine.

[ZteelZero]

I played with several PUG's over the weekend, all which had a problem with my nova's powers. "Ur'e  TOO OP!!!" etc.....

 

So i decided to play without using my 4th power for 20 or so defense missions, what i saw.

Volt wiping out entire platoons or corpus in one fell swoop, from one side of the map to the other. Used power twice to kill entire wave, after wave.

 

Frost exploding everything around or near the Pod into chunks of ice, albeit power is strong but does have a short fall off.

 

Rhino stomping and killing every single weak type enemy instantly and causing all the heavies to slowing fall to the ground which a second stop killed them all. Huge area of effect, half the map!

Ember, ring of fire taking up half the map, the world on fire spammed and killed everything from one side of the map to the other, barely had to use the WOF key twice per wave.

 

Sayrn, close to the spawn points and boom, instant goo, wave cleared....

Banshee, sound quake, this kills every small enemy in a huge radius and then anyone that walks into after. Much less effective on higher enemies, has to be spammed countless times.

 

Excal - Slash and dash, kills entire lines of troops/infested. Radial javelin to finish off the heavies. Usually sits on ramps to line enemies up.

 

Vauban - Bastille and vortex. Spams a vortex at the spawn points and a Bastille at the pod... no one has to even move....

 

NYX - Chaos, all enemy in the map are affected, the range is insane. half of them kill each other the rest don't attack players unless you are close to them. like shooing fish in a barrel.

 

ASH - I feel ash is the one left out, the blade storm is nice and kills some of the heavies but he's mostly limited and spend most of the time going one on one with enemies. He needs a tweak to compete.

 

Trinity - God mode - No one dies... ever.... allows the rest to solo anything in the map.

 

So in conclusion, do i feel NOVA is domineering? No, not in the least, her power doesn't kill heavies in one go, the range is good when maxed out but it's nothing compared to rhino's stomp or nyx's chaos. Her skill is comparable to Banshees sonar, allowing other players to do double damage when in effect but with a firework show at the end..

 

Each frame when used correctly can domineer the map.

 

I also played a game last night where two other nova's were in play, both spamming the m-prime key, both were very ineffective as they didn't get close enough to the enemy to use it properly.

You saved me alot of typing! But I think thennova skills can be just as ineffective as any other frame if not used properly

[Volt_Cruelerz]

As I said before, I don't have her, but just looking at her kit..

 

1: Red Shells - that's all I think of whenever I see this ability.  Not the best, but for a 1, this is actually pretty decent.  The ability to recast to refresh the ball pool would be nice.

2: AM Drop: I feel like the addition of this necessitates now more than ever a buff to Nyx's Absorb, but that ability needed help anyways.

3: Teleport: fantastic movement ability.

4: M-Prime: nuke of doom

 

1 won't scale.  2 will scale.  3 is unaffected by scaling because it's movement.  4 won't scale well.  If 4 makes enemies take more damage, that will help it scale, but the explosive damage will not scale.  Making it lean further towards CC and away from damage might be nice.

 

I can't say that I'm gung-ho for this idea, but I do like it and I believe it is worthy of consideration at least.

[Lykalos]

As of right now, on any level, I can drive my Nova into a room and wipe a room out.

 

Are you trying to tell me that Miasma and, goodness knows, World on Fire aren't capable of this?.

[basilioss]

I think this is a terrible idea, simply because it would ruin the total idea of Molecular Prime: chain reactions. With this damage nerf, when enemies explode they would be unable to kill other enemies to set off more explosions. I definitely hate this idea and hope it doesn't get implemented.

[MangoMonkey]

Are you trying to tell me that Miasma and, goodness knows, World on Fire aren't capable of this?.

 

You're right, as I said previously. Please, I don't want this to continue as a "Nova is OP" thread. That's not my intention and is a circular, pointless argument already raging in other threads. I just want to make her powers synergise more smoothly and give AM Drop a purpose.