World on Fire, Again.

[Almagnus1]

5 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

"No you" isn't an argument either. Unlike what you just did, I gave my reasons why World of Fire is a broken skill. The original post was this:

Maybe you need to go take a look at real data... kinda like http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Armor#Warframe_Armor_and_Effective_Health

Note where Ember is on that chart, she's near the bottom.  That means that Ember is actually a really squishy frame, so in other words, she's akin to a glass cannon especially if you happen to get too close to a leech eximus.  If WoF was such an awesome ability, and so deserving of a nerf, how can one enemy unit completely wreck you?

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

Maybe you need to go take a look at real data... kinda like http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Armor#Warframe_Armor_and_Effective_Health

Note where Ember is on that chart, she's near the bottom.  That means that Ember is actually a really squishy frame, so in other words, she's akin to a glass cannon especially if you happen to get too close to a leech eximus.  If WoF was such an awesome ability, and so deserving of a nerf, how can one enemy unit completely wreck you?

And no one will give ideas on a better ability, if they do, thdy sugfest something that leaves her immobile like banshee, but sound quake irl has its own problems and to me, trivializes the game as well.

[TheBrsrkr]

Just now, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Irs impossible while playing with a nova to kill everything before she primes it. It can be done, but the wave will hit things where they spawn that you havnt touched yet. 

I don't join a mission with other players  to kill everything myself. I don't expect to get all the kills, I just expect to get some of the kills during the game. 

I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. I don't LIKE M Prime. It's a horrible skill that does exactly as you say, and there are conclusions to be drawn between it and World on fire. But they're not exactly the same. 

Also, wasn't there a time I  the past where M Prime stopped at walls or something? I could swear this happened at some time, or maybe there was a big thread and I'm just misremembering. I dunno. 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

. There is a little area of ground beneath an enemy that lights up before the flame actually ignites them, when enemies are affected by wof, so its the same as me sayimg that you have every opportunity to attack enemies before they are hit by wof because you can see that light. But you wouldnt do that, because its ridculous. Youd either leave, or play away from the Ember if it really upset you that much.

The underlined point is the crux of the issue for me. Why should any player be forced to cater around you? Why should someone leave the game if they want to play the game? "Because it's a public game" isn't a good enough answer to me, because it doesn't matter if it's public or private, it shouldn't happen. It doesn't make the situation any better. Yes, the same applies to Nova, but this isn't a Nova thread. 

[Almagnus1]

8 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

I don't join a mission with other players  to kill everything myself. I don't expect to get all the kills, I just expect to get some of the kills during the game. 

Then you're not trying hard enough, and just dragging down the team.

Please do us all a favor and git gud and stop AFKing on us.

8 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

The underlined point is the crux of the issue for me. Why should any player be forced to cater around you? Why should someone leave the game if they want to play the game? "Because it's a public game" isn't a good enough answer to me, because it doesn't matter if it's public or private, it shouldn't happen. It doesn't make the situation any better. Yes, the same applies to Nova, but this isn't a Nova thread. 

And why should we be forced to play around you?

If you're expecting me to stand there as you line up the ultimate head shot, take your time and fire off your ammo supply one shot at a time, and clap for you after you've done your uber 1337 trick shots - that's a completely unrealistic way to play because while you're faffing around, everyone else is doing the mission.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Almagnus1

[TheBrsrkr]

8 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Maybe you need to go take a look at real data... kinda like http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Armor#Warframe_Armor_and_Effective_Health

Note where Ember is on that chart, she's near the bottom.  That means that Ember is actually a really squishy frame, so in other words, she's akin to a glass cannon especially if you happen to get too close to a leech eximus.  

Completely irrelevant! This has nothing to do with the topic we are discussing, which is World on Fire! World on Fire provides no buffs or debuffs to EHP, and so THIS! MEANS! NOTHING! 

 

10 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

  If WoF was such an awesome ability, and so deserving of a nerf, how can one enemy unit completely wreck you?

AGAIN, you are conflating being BROKEN to being OVERPOWERED! I told you already this is NOT ALWAYS TRUE! It is right here:

16 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

. 

You know, I did say that World of Fire sucks, right? That it's a bad ability that's only good for low level speed farming and infested? Why would I think it's OP if I said all that. I said it's a problem because it's both uninteractive and is not conducive to good team gameplay. It's broken, not overpowered. All overpowered things are broken, but not all broken things are overpowered. 

I literally said it was a BAD ABILITY! And even then, this means what? World  on Fire is balanced because ONE enemy of HUNDREDS can affect you? What makes this only apply to her? Oh, sure you could blind more than 2 tilesets with the old Mirage, but leech eximi are here so it's okay! Sure, Excalibur could push out 60k damage per wave with infinite punch through, but leech eximi affect him, so it's  okay! Sure, Loki could go invisible and be literally undetectable indefinitely before they changed it, take away enemy weapons and make them fight each other with sticks, but leech eximi are in the game, and he can't go invisible without energy, so it's okay! 

 

5 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Then you're not trying hard enough, and just dragging down the team.

Please do us all a favor and git gud and stop AFKing on us.

Do you even understand what you are suggesting? THERE IS NO TEAM HERE. There's just Ember and her band of intrepid looters. Trying hard enough  to do what, exactly? Kill enemies that are already dead? Run faster than an Ember who is also running to kill 3 or 4 enemies before the rest of them catch fire and die? Race to see who can get to extraction first? Oh please bestow upon me your wisdom, great one? Or rather, don't. You can answer to any of my arguments first. 

[TheBrsrkr]

17 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

.

And why should we be forced to play around you?

If you're expecting me to stand there as you line up the ultimate head shot, take your time and fire off your ammo supply one shot at a time, and clap for you after you've done your uber 1337 trick shots - that's a completely unrealistic way to play because while you're faffing around, everyone else is doing the mission.

How many people can I kill at a time with my weapons? You don't have to play around  me. If I'm shooting left, you fan shoot right. If I cast Avalanche, you can still shoot something else. If I cast Rhino Charge or stomp, you can still shoot all the enemies since  they're not dead, mostly. If I cast hysteria, I have to go cut everything. You have no point here. You don't have to play around me because it's possible not to play around me. What are you doing when World of Fire is active? Shooting ashes? Casting buffs? Using Swing Line? Trying to shake hands with a guy collecting loot? Showing off my dance moves? Or is it just collecting loot and heading to extraction? No one here joined warframe to collect loot and run to extraction. 

[Almagnus1]

10 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Completely irrelevant! This has nothing to do with the topic we are discussing, which is World on Fire! World on Fire provides no buffs or debuffs to EHP, and so THIS! MEANS! NOTHING! 

So what you're saying is that there's no correlation between low initial armor value and AoE kill abilities?

Are we really playing the same game here, or are you really that willfully ignorant about how this game works?

10 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Do you even understand what you are suggesting? THERE IS NO TEAM HERE. There's just Ember and her band of intrepid looters.

Then maybe you should stop taking Ember into low level stuff.  Go play her on Eris or Pluto and see how she does.

Or better yet, go take Ember into a sortie and see how "totally awesome" WoF is.

10 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Trying hard enough  to do what, exactly? Kill enemies that are already dead? Run faster than an Ember who is also running to kill 3 or 4 enemies before the rest of them catch fire and die? Race to see who can get to extraction first? Oh please bestow upon me your wisdom, great one? Or rather, don't. You can answer to any of my arguments first. 

Yeah here's what you need to do:

GET OUT OF THE LOW LEVEL MISSIONS AND GET GOOD ENOUGH SO THAT YOU CAN SEE WORLD ON FIRE IS AN OK SKILL BECAUSE IT ALLOW YOU TO CC STUFF AT HIGHER LEVELS

[TheBrsrkr]

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

So what you're saying is that there's no correlation between low initial armor value and AoE kill abilities?

Are we really playing the same game here, or are you really that willfully ignorant about how this game works?

How, exactly, does the armor value affect how the ability works? In no way whatsoever? Oh, cool. Then it's irrelevant. 

 

2 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Then maybe you should stop taking Ember into low level stuff.  Go play her on Eris or Pluto and see how she does.

Or better yet, go take Ember into a sortie and see how "totally awesome" WoF is.

At this point you've actually given up. I quoted the same post, twice, specifically saying that World on fire is not a good ability. Yet here you are again, saying the same thing. If you're trolling, just leave, man. You have better things to do, I'm sure. 

 

4 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

 

Yeah here's what you need to do:

GET OUT OF THE LOW LEVEL MISSIONS AND GET GOOD ENOUGH SO THAT YOU CAN SEE WORLD ON FIRE IS AN OK SKILL BECAUSE IT ALLOW YOU TO CC STUFF AT HIGHER LEVELS

Firstly, this contradicts your earlier point, directly before this, that World on fire is not good on Sortie level content. Which is it, now?  Literally anyone with CC is better than World on Fore for CC. I can run a max power strength and efficiency build on Rhino and still have a  longer CC than Ember. Hell, even ice wave. 

Next, this solves what, exactly? Does that make World on Fire a better skill for team play? No. Does it make it a less broken, brain dead skill? No. Does it make it any better for higher level content? No. Then it is not a solution. I'm already good. Even if I wasn't good, what would this change about any of the problems I pointed out?  Nothing. 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

5 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

So what you're saying is that there's no correlation between low initial armor value and AoE kill abilities?

Are we really playing the same game here, or are you really that willfully ignorant about how this game works?

Then maybe you should stop taking Ember into low level stuff.  Go play her on Eris or Pluto and see how she does.

Or better yet, go take Ember into a sortie and see how "totally awesome" WoF is.

Yeah here's what you need to do:

GET OUT OF THE LOW LEVEL MISSIONS AND GET GOOD ENOUGH SO THAT YOU CAN SEE WORLD ON FIRE IS AN OK SKILL BECAUSE IT ALLOW YOU TO CC STUFF AT HIGHER LEVELS

Well...i think the question is, why not make everyone happier then by deleting wofs damage almost completely and making her other abilities imcrease its damage. Of course, its going to need a really good buff to off set that. Accelerant coats everything, Fire wall ignites it, and wof creates actual explosions like hitting a bomb barrel with a penta grenade when hitting enemies affected by the previous two. Fire ball will do the say as wof. She'll be a more effective and useful saryn than saryn.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

19 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

How, exactly, does the armor value affect how the ability works? In no way whatsoever? Oh, cool. Then it's irrelevant. 

 

At this point you've actually given up. I quoted the same post, twice, specifically saying that World on fire is not a good ability. Yet here you are again, saying the same thing. If you're trolling, just leave, man. You have better things to do, I'm sure. 

 

Firstly, this contradicts your earlier point, directly before this, that World on fire is not good on Sortie level content. Which is it, now?  Literally anyone with CC is better than World on Fore for CC. I can run a max power strength and efficiency build on Rhino and still have a  longer CC than Ember. Hell, even ice wave. 

Next, this solves what, exactly? Does that make World on Fire a better skill for team play? No. Does it make it a less broken, brain dead skill? No. Does it make it any better for higher level content? No. Then it is not a solution. I'm already good. Even if I wasn't good, what would this change about any of the problems I pointed out?  Nothing. 

You keep saying wof kills stuff, but it does nothing to enemy health usually past level 40, unless you have built to go beyond that, and that involves using specific weapons and mods. So saying wof kills everything makes it seem like you are just staying in low level missions, fighting trash mobs. Im sure you did not need this explanation, amd are just beimg difficult because your talking about something you feel is unrelated.

[Almagnus1]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

She'll be a more effective and useful saryn than saryn.

Therein lies the problem.... Ember would become Saryn which is frame homogenization.

34 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

How, exactly, does the armor value affect how the ability works? In no way whatsoever? Oh, cool. Then it's irrelevant. 

Actually, it's more about the correlation of lower armor value to the higher DPS frames.

Or to put it in terms you understand:

LOW ARMOR MEAN LITTLE FRAME MAKE BIG BOOM

34 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

At this point you've actually given up. I quoted the same post, twice, specifically saying that World on fire is not a good ability. Yet here you are again, saying the same thing. If you're trolling, just leave, man. You have better things to do, I'm sure. 

Nah, I'm seeing how far I can drag the horse into the lake before it either drowns or starts drinking.  I'm thinking it's going to be the former at this point.

34 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Firstly, this contradicts your earlier point, directly before this, that World on fire is not good on Sortie level content. Which is it, now?  Literally anyone with CC is better than World on Fore for CC. I can run a max power strength and efficiency build on Rhino and still have a  longer CC than Ember. Hell, even ice wave. 

Next, this solves what, exactly? Does that make World on Fire a better skill for team play? No. Does it make it a less broken, brain dead skill? No. Does it make it any better for higher level content? No. Then it is not a solution. I'm already good. Even if I wasn't good, what would this change about any of the problems I pointed out?  Nothing. 

No, what it proves is you need a change in perspective, because quite frankly, you're making an argument like an MR1 player would about Ember.... when your post count indicates you should be far beyond that line of thinking.

I'm starting to think you're a person who fights more on the forums than in game, which is why you're reasoning is basically mediocre satire.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

5 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Therein lies the problem.... Ember would become Saryn which is frame homogenization.

Actually, it's more about the correlation of lower armor value to the higher DPS frames.

Or to put it in terms you understand:

LOW ARMOR MEAN LITTLE FRAME MAKE BIG BOOM

Nah, I'm seeing how far I can drag the horse into the lake before it either drowns or starts drinking.  I'm thinking it's going to be the former at this point.

No, what it proves is you need a change in perspective, because quite frankly, you're making an argument like an MR1 player would about Ember.... when your post count indicates you should be far beyond that line of thinking.

I'm starting to think you're a person who fights more on the forums than in game, which is why you're reasoning is basically mediocre satire.

It wouldnt really be homogenization, i just say it like that because saryns big things is amplifying damage output through ability combos, but its poorly implemented. I see where DE could pontentially make the same mistake if they went with the idea for Ember, but in my mind, the idea is safe and sound, and better than saryn. 

Also, DE copys and pastes alot of stuff already...

[Almagnus1]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Also, DE copys and pastes alot of stuff already...

While that's more true for the weapons, it's better to let the warframes each be as individual and distinct as possible because the last thing we need is a !Saryn masquerading as Ember.

 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

While that's more true for the weapons, it's better to let the warframes each be as individual and distinct as possible because the last thing we need is a !Saryn masquerading as Ember.

 

Well how do you tackle the problem of damage frames. I hate everything being crowd control focused, but people complain about damage abilities because they arent crowd control. Take hydroid for example: people hate him, even though he is unique, because he doesnt do what other cc frames do. They hate how random tempest barrage is, even though its one of the most useful first abilities in game aside from sonic boom, and get upset that tentacle swarm doesnt hold enemies still for easy head shots....we have been asking for scaling damage on damage frames, but instead, like with volt, they simply turn them into cc frames. And people argue that volt was always a cc frame, but he wasnt.

[Almagnus1]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Well how do you tackle the problem of damage frames. I hate everything being crowd control focused, but people complain about damage abilities because they arent crowd control. Take hydroid for example: people hate him, even though he is unique, because he doesnt do what other cc frames do. They hate how random tempest barrage is, even though its one of the most useful first abilities in game aside from sonic boom, and get upset that tentacle swarm doesnt hold enemies still for easy head shots....we have been asking for scaling damage on damage frames, but instead, like with volt, they simply turn them into cc frames. And people argue that volt was always a cc frame, but he wasnt.

Easy, the dev team looks at the metrics, makes notes of the forums, and when the forums perception isn't matching what the metrics are showing - they ignore the forums!

Exactly like what they're doing now with Ember!

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

33 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Easy, the dev team looks at the metrics, makes notes of the forums, and when the forums perception isn't matching what the metrics are showing - they ignore the forums!

Exactly like what they're doing now with Ember!

Hopefully so...

[TheBrsrkr]

2 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

You keep saying wof kills stuff, but it does nothing to enemy health usually past level 40, unless you have built to go beyond that, and that involves using specific weapons and mods. So saying wof kills everything makes it seem like you are just staying in low level missions, fighting trash mobs. Im sure you did not need this explanation, amd are just beimg difficult because your talking about something you feel is unrelated.

I realize this, but this too is part of the problem. 

Part of my problem is that I don't really farm like other people. No "H Bere need buff DPS", just pop a mission on Senda, Uranus or Ceres and go kill things,depending on the weapon. I've decided to avoid Void whatever you call it until I really figure out the key system with these fancy new words that don't mean anything unless a friend invites me, and I generally just do the 3 sorties a day then go faff about in a void survival or defense for 40 minutes like I'm used to, or go play something irrelevant solo for an hour or something. There's a lot for me to relearn.

What I don't need to relearn is that any public or some private squad inevitably starts out with an Ember running around burning everything to death for as long as it can. I expect this on Akkad, because infested are infested. I don't care. Those are stomping grounds and have been for years. A problem, yes, but I could work past  that. Sortie 1 and 2,however are meant to be a challenge. So is the Kuva Fortress, I assume. So far I'm intrigued, but generally dissatisfied. 

And almost invariably there has been an Ember walking by burning everything to death. I am fully aware this kind of thing only happens on low content, and that is one of the reasons why it matters so much. Lower content is where people farm. Lower content is actually where most players spend most of the game. And right now, lower content doesn't even matter for reasons I repeatedly stated. And that would be fine (well it wouldn't be fine, but you know what I mean) if it led to something at the end, you know?

Back in the days of T4, people did the same thing with other frames for 40 waves and I hated it, but I at least understood it. People wanted to get past the 20-40 levels and actually get to fight at 60 and beyond. Players don't even do that now. It's spam for 20 waves or run around burning thing s for 20 minutes and then quit. Quit to do the same thing again because it's more efficient to do so. Now if you want to waste your time doing that alone,I would be fine, but there's 2 problems here, one being that some don't do it alone and it works anyways, leading everyone who actually came to a survival to survive actually just came  to sweep the floors. The other reason is that DE is going to do it anyway, so you might as well be the one to dictate how. I remember your name, and you were here for the Excalibur nerf before he had EB. How many 40 page threads were made about that, some of which I created and you were a part of? How may threads about how he is okay because he could be spanked by Bombards and leeching Eximi? How many threads about Saryn being better, about Mesa being better? How many threads with the exact same arguments that Almagnus1 here is using? Plenty. And what did it change? Nothing. Excalibur still got nerfed into irrelevance, and they told us why. This is not the gameplay they wanted. This was not a part of their vision. They don't want us to sit in one spot. They don't want us to spam our way to the end. Youd think they made it clear. And to their credit, they did make it harder, at least in some respects. 

But 2 years later I come back into the game and behold there is still spam. And there is still the same defense. He's right in part about this, with the wrong conclusion. 

1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

Easy, the dev team looks at the metrics, makes notes of the forums, and when the forums perception isn't matching what the metrics are showing - they ignore the forums!

Exactly like what they're doing now with Ember!

What DE does is watch and wait. They see a lot more than we think. They used to have this monthly (I think it was monthly)  thing where they discussed some of the stats of the game with a wider lens. Which enemy killed the most people per faction. Which frame was used the most. What abilities were used the most. They have all that at their disposal to make a decision. They wait for ALL the data to come in. They wait for ALL the threads to run their course and blow over. They wait for us to stop.  We never do. Then they act. Then things get nerfed. Hard. 

If we could acknowledge like we did with Valkyr and Saryn that there IS a problem, and we work towards a solution together, we can direct DE into a less brutal stance on this. Valkyr got her claws buffed by melee damage and her timer removed. We said what was bad, and offered suggestions. What did they do? Increase energy drain and add a (basically useless) damage refund system so you would have to think about using hysteria. Saryn drained too much energy for her combos and it didn't have that great of an effect. We made this clear and  gave suggestions. Toxic Lash now refunds energy and Spores spread a lot farther than they originally did. Sure, it wasn't what we originally suggested be done, but it was at least along the lines of what we came up with. And we could at least be happy about that. 

So here I am, arguing with someone who thinks the EHP of a frame should decide whether it's broken or not. A guy who simultaneously thinks Ember sucks at anything level 60 and telling me you can use her at higher levels. A guy unwilling to discuss any point I bring up. As always, I will watch, I will post to the best of my ability, and the forum, and DE, will decide. 

[Almagnus1]

6 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

He's right

Thank you for admitting I'm right.

1 minute ago, TheBrsrkr said:

What DE does is watch and wait. They see a lot more than we think. They used to have this monthly (I think it was monthly)  thing where they discussed some of the stats of the game with a wider lens. Which enemy killed the most people per faction. Which frame was used the most. What abilities were used the most. They have all that at their disposal to make a decision. They wait for ALL the data to come in. They wait for ALL the threads to run their course and blow over. They wait for us to stop.  We never do. Then they act. Then things get nerfed. Hard. 

So you mean, they use their metrics of the game to make decisions and act upon those metrics, and will often ignore feedback until an issue becomes critical... kinda like what I had basically said.

Gotcha.

1 minute ago, TheBrsrkr said:

If we could acknowledge like we did with Valkyr and Saryn that there IS a problem, and we work towards a solution together, we can direct DE into a less brutal stance on this. Valkyr got her claws buffed by melee damage and her timer removed. We said what was bad, and offered suggestions. What did they do? Increase energy drain and add a (basically useless) damage refund system so you would have to think about using hysteria. Saryn drained too much energy for her combos and it didn't have that great of an effect. We made this clear and  gave suggestions. Toxic Lash now refunds energy and Spores spread a lot farther than they originally did. Sure, it wasn't what we originally suggested be done, but it was at least along the lines of what we came up with. And we could at least be happy about that. 

Translation:

OH NOES!  I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT HOW TO USE A WARFRAME!  IT'S BEEN NERFED AND CHANGED FOR EVAH!!!!!!

WARFRAME IZ RUINEDED!!!

1 minute ago, TheBrsrkr said:

So here I am, arguing with someone who thinks the EHP of a frame should decide whether it's broken or not. A guy who simultaneously thinks Ember sucks at anything level 60 and telling me you can use her at higher levels. A guy unwilling to discuss any point I bring up. As always, I will watch, I will post to the best of my ability, and the forum, and DE, will decide. 

Eh, I never mentioned anything about EHP (that was you), just pointed out the correlation between lower base armor and (generally) higher DPS.

That point appears to have sailed right over your head, as you fabricated other "arguments" that I "allegedly" said, and then proceeded to argue against things I never said in the first place.

It's as if I'm arguing with a schizophrenic that's also conversing with their imaginary friend telling them how to slice a rock and freeze it on the BBQ...

[TheBrsrkr]

2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Therein lies the problem.... Ember would become Saryn which is frame homogenization.

Actually, it's more about the correlation of lower armor value to the higher DPS frames.

Or to put it in terms you understand:

LOW ARMOR MEAN LITTLE FRAME MAKE BIG BOOM

Now you're just being rude. 

Again, World on Fire is broken. Let us discuss how world on fire is broken and how we can fix that. I know frames with low EHP have power to make up for it. Everyone knows that. It is an irrelevant fact. This is not an excuse for the Way World on Fire exists now. It can both have high DPS and NOT be broken. But only if we come to a solution. 

2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Nah, I'm seeing how far I can drag the horse into the lake before it either drowns or starts drinking.  I'm thinking it's going to be the former at this point.

Most would call this baiting or wasting time. 

You haven't answered the query yet. If you intend to, please, by all means, do so in your next inevitable post. If jot we can drop the topic and the forum will decide. 

2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

.No, what it proves is you need a change in perspective, because quite frankly, you're making an argument like an MR1 player would about Ember.... when your post count indicates you should be far beyond that line of thinking.

I'm starting to think you're a person who fights more on the forums than in game, which is why you're reasoning is basically mediocre satire.

Neither of these are arguments for or against any of my or your positions. These forums are a gateway to DE. You're not just talking to me. I'm trying to discuss the current problem with World on Fire, how it affects teamplay, and what we can do about it. You apparently have nothing to say about that. So how about you end this song and dance here, and  we actually talk instead of throwing poorly  veiled insults and irrelevant data at me, and address some points instead? 

[Almagnus1]

Just now, TheBrsrkr said:

Now you're just being rude. 

No, I'm being honest - and you're the one that's taking honesty as "rudeness".

Just now, TheBrsrkr said:

Again, World on Fire is broken. Let us discuss how world on fire is broken and how we can fix that. I know frames with low EHP have power to make up for it. Everyone knows that. It is an irrelevant fact. This is not an excuse for the Way World on Fire exists now. It can both have high DPS and NOT be broken. But only if we come to a solution. 

You're the only one calling WoF broken.  Just because you say its broken, doesn't mean it's actually broken.

Just now, TheBrsrkr said:

You haven't answered the query yet. If you intend to, please, by all means, do so in your next inevitable post. If jot we can drop the topic and the forum will decide. 

When you bury a single question in a wall of text, no one is going to waste their time - especially when someone's grandstanding as often as you are.

Just now, TheBrsrkr said:

Neither of these are arguments for or against any of my or your positions. These forums are a gateway to DE. You're not just talking to me. I'm trying to discuss the current problem with World on Fire, how it affects teamplay, and what we can do about it. You apparently have nothing to say about that. So how about you end this song and dance here, and  we actually talk instead of throwing poorly  veiled insults and irrelevant data at me, and address some points instead? 

No, you're grandstanding your warped perspective on how you're right and everyone who doesn't agree with exactly what you said is wrong.

You might want to try with an argument that's something more than "it's broken because I said it is", and maybe you'll get better success.

[Soketsu]

Do you want to continue on that way  Brsrkr ?

[TheBrsrkr]

2 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Thank you for admitting I'm right.

So you mean, they use their metrics of the game to make decisions and act upon those metrics, and will often ignore feedback until an issue becomes critical... kinda like what I had basically said.

Gotcha.

If that's what you really took away from this exchange, I need to seriously reevaluate who I talk to on this forum. 

 

4 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Translation:

OH NOES!  I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT HOW TO USE A WARFRAME!  IT'S BEEN NERFED AND CHANGED FOR EVAH!!!!!!

WARFRAME IZ RUINEDED!!!

Now tell me, what did you hope to achieve by this post? Is it understanding? Is it a joke? Is it just vitriol? Would you consider this "constructive feedback"? 

 

6 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Eh, I never mentioned anything about EHP (that was you), just pointed out the correlation between lower base armor and (generally) higher DPS.

4 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Maybe you need to go take a look at real data... kinda like http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Armor#Warframe_Armor_and_Effective_Health

 

 

Mind reading the name of the chart for me? And even so, it is still not relevant to the discussion. 

 

8 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

.

That point appears to have sailed right over your head, as you fabricated other "arguments" that I "allegedly" said, and then proceeded to argue against things I never said in the first place.

 

Such as? The quote function is right there. 

[Almagnus1]

2 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

I need to seriously reevaluate who I talk to on this forum. 

Please do, you'd save a lot of us many headaches.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Almagnus1

[TheBrsrkr]

1 minute ago, Soketsu said:

Do you want to continue on that way  Brsrkr ?

Don't think I will, thanks. Obviously he isn't here for discussion. 

[Soketsu]

Hum sorry, but I was talking about you

You know, may you should really start to work on yourself,

conversations on the forum with you end up quite often like this